Legislation being introduced for future funding of American Family Field: UPDATE New lease through 2050

[jerichoholicninja]

The winterizing thing seems like a pretty big deal.

[Turnbows Barber]

1 hour ago, Jastro said:

 

Those details definitely make the deal look better.  Player salary taxes may cover the state portion but, unless I'm missing something, does not do anything for the $200 million coming from the county/city, which both recently raised sales tax significantly to avoid being unable to fulfill their basic obligations.  Also, if the Republicans eventually get what they want and the state income tax is eliminated, where is the money coming from?

[Turnbows Barber]

3 hours ago, sveumrules said:

The Rays stadium situation has been tenuous and contentious for some time, so they have to pay a higher percentage of the costs because the public wouldn’t agree to pay more.

I would argue that the Rays situation shows that there was never any realistic chance of the Brewers leaving.  The Rays are paying a huge amount of money to build a smaller stadium in a city that hasn't supported them, even though the team has been very successful on the field.  I'm sure a new stadium will help them but it's still a city that hasn't given the team much fan support in a location that people still think is a problem.  If they couldn't find a better situation in Montreal or Nashville or Charlotte or wherever, with a pretty low bar of finding a better situation than they have been in, how were the Brewers going to, coming from a much better situation?  The Brewers/MLB might have done a good job with their scare tactics of how a ton of public money was needed or they could leave but the Rays situation makes me think there was a whole lot of nothing behind it.

[Brewcrew82]

34 minutes ago, Turnbows Barber said:

I would argue that the Rays situation shows that there was never any realistic chance of the Brewers leaving.  The Rays are paying a huge amount of money to build a smaller stadium in a city that hasn't supported them, even though the team has been very successful on the field.  I'm sure a new stadium will help them but it's still a city that hasn't given the team much fan support in a location that people still think is a problem.  If they couldn't find a better situation in Montreal or Nashville or Charlotte or wherever, with a pretty low bar of finding a better situation than they have been in, how were the Brewers going to, coming from a much better situation?  The Brewers/MLB might have done a good job with their scare tactics of how a ton of public money was needed or they could leave but the Rays situation makes me think there was a whole lot of nothing behind it.

Tampa Bay/St Petersburg market still trumps Milwaukee in market size. Game attendance a relatively small part of the calculus compared to that. Why MLB wasn't going to let the Rays leave despite this saga having gone on for almost two decades now and their sparse attendance. 

If the funding isn't there in Milwaukee, there almost certainly would be in those other cities with larger markets, which is where the real risk comes from.

[rickh150]

1 hour ago, Turnbows Barber said:

I would argue that the Rays situation shows that there was never any realistic chance of the Brewers leaving.  The Rays are paying a huge amount of money to build a smaller stadium in a city that hasn't supported them, even though the team has been very successful on the field.  I'm sure a new stadium will help them but it's still a city that hasn't given the team much fan support in a location that people still think is a problem.  If they couldn't find a better situation in Montreal or Nashville or Charlotte or wherever, with a pretty low bar of finding a better situation than they have been in, how were the Brewers going to, coming from a much better situation?  The Brewers/MLB might have done a good job with their scare tactics of how a ton of public money was needed or they could leave but the Rays situation makes me think there was a whole lot of nothing behind it.

If you are arguing against the possibility of the team leaving, look no further than the fact that you are a Brewers fan and not a Milwaukee Braves fan.  Abandonment and Relocation has happened RIGHT HERE before and it could again.  Of course it could happen without receiving any govt money.  Attanasio is out the door... or he would pass it on to his kids and they would turn the book to its next chapter in Nashville.

Did the team use some scare tactics, parading the commissioner in and having front page sports stories in the Journal on how the team could be looking to leave?  Yep.  And it worked. But we are working between a rock and a hard place here.  Pay up or risk the team moving.  I say selfishly pay up and keep them here for another full generation, even longer than first reported.

Also, the $600 million is a really big number long term, but breaking it down per year looks more reasonable or even expected, compared to building a brand new retractable stadium.

[Brewcrew82]

25 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

If you are arguing against the possibility of the team leaving, look no further than the fact that you are a Brewers fan and not a Milwaukee Braves fan.  Abandonment and Relocation has happened RIGHT HERE before and it could again.  Of course it could happen without receiving any govt money.  Attanasio is out the door... or he would pass it on to his kids and they would turn the book to its next chapter in Nashville.

Did the team use some scare tactics, parading the commissioner in and having front page sports stories in the Journal on how the team could be looking to leave?  Yep.  And it worked. But we are working between a rock and a hard place here.  Pay up or risk the team moving.  I say selfishly pay up and keep them here for another full generation, even longer than first reported.

Also, the $600 million is a really big number long term, but breaking it down per year looks more reasonable or even expected, compared to building a brand new retractable stadium.

Yeah, with inflation, we're talking around $1.2 billion for a new ballpark nowadays. So, a reasonable cost to keep the team in MKE for the foreseeable future. Not like Am Fam is a dump anyways. 

[homer]

 

[kestrel79]

Anyone else annoyed with how politicized this became? Has it always been like this with the stadium deals in the past? I thought it was more working together both sides of the aisle than what we've seen so far this year.

[Team Canada]

37 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

Anyone else annoyed with how politicized this became? Has it always been like this with the stadium deals in the past? I thought it was more working together both sides of the aisle than what we've seen so far this year.

You must not have been around for the original stadium deal. :)

[Brewcrew82]

I agree with the Mayor here. As the article states, Am Fam has more parking space than Epcot! In "winterizing" Am Fam, there's a real opportunity to develop some of that land in addition. You lose money if that space just sits empty on non-game days. 

https://www.fox6now.com/news/american-family-field-entertainment-district

[homer]

17 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I agree with the Mayor here. As the article states, Am Fam has more parking space than Epcot! In "winterizing" Am Fam, there's a real opportunity to develop some of that land in addition. You lose money if that space just sits empty on non-game days. 

https://www.fox6now.com/news/american-family-field-entertainment-district

I get that tailgating is big thing but how many people tailgate per game? Is it even 50%? 

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, homer said:

I get that tailgating is big thing but how many people tailgate per game? Is it even 50%? 

Exactly. From my experience, it's probably less than that.

You could probably have room for a lot or two for people who want to tailgate, a parking garage (or lot) for those who don't want to tailgate, and a commercial/retail district. 

[wiguy94]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I agree with the Mayor here. As the article states, Am Fam has more parking space than Epcot! In "winterizing" Am Fam, there's a real opportunity to develop some of that land in addition. You lose money if that space just sits empty on non-game days. 

https://www.fox6now.com/news/american-family-field-entertainment-district

100%. You could get rid of 25-50% of the parking and still have plenty of parking left for tailgate culture to remain

[sobomp3]

Its unfathomable to me that Rick Schlesinger can look at the immensely successful Deer District and Titletown and say out loud "this is a bad idea". He should be ousted from his role for even suggesting it.

[Fear The Chorizo]

On 9/18/2023 at 10:23 AM, sveumrules said:

Globe Life Park had a reported construction cost of $1.2B, though it looks like The Ballpark at Arlington is still standing so the Rangers didn’t have to pay for demolition. 

Original Miller Park price tag looks like $400M for a project that started almost 27 years ago now.

Comparing construction costs of just about anything between southern states and midwest/northern states needs to come with the caveat that there's a pretty substantial difference in labor/equipment/fuel/material costs between building something substantial in WI compared to Texas or Florida. 

https://roofonline.com/relative-construction-costs-by-state/

Lots of data points out there, but even just looking at costs of residential construction in the link above - if setting the national average of building a house is 1.00, building in Wisconsin comes at a cost of 1.10 compared to Texas at 0.75 or Florida at 0.80.

Overly simplified, but that would indicate building Global Life in Milwaukee today instead of Arlington would've cost closer to $2B before any additional demolition costs of an old ballpark.

[homer]

30 minutes ago, sobomp3 said:

Its unfathomable to me that Rick Schlesinger can look at the immensely successful Deer District and Titletown and say out loud "this is a bad idea". He should be ousted from his role for even suggesting it.

It's probably not his call. The Brewers must think they can make more money off of parking (and not paying property taxes on those lots) than they can via development.

[owbc]

16 minutes ago, homer said:

It's probably not his call. The Brewers must think they can make more money off of parking (and not paying property taxes on those lots) than they can via development.

I suspect that the Brewers' logic on keeping the parking lots is correct. A big reason for the Brewers' high attendance numbers is the ease of access via highways from long distances. The Bucks surely draw more from Milwaukee itself and their entertainment district is within downtown. Building another district from scratch would be tough -- at the very least one would want to start with streetcar connectivity which would be quite expensive and largely pointless at the start. Really what would be needed is dense mixed-use residential buildings and I just don't know if the demand would be there when Milwaukee has a variety of established neighborhoods already. 

We'll see how this lease goes, in the 2040s it might be time to have the discussion about a downtown ballpark. 

[torts]

55 minutes ago, homer said:

It's probably not his call. The Brewers must think they can make more money off of parking (and not paying property taxes on those lots) than they can via development.

Just build parking garages.  That's what we have in Pittsburgh, the giant empty lots between the football and baseball stadiums now have three parking towers, 4 office buildings with restaurants/breweries on the ground level, a 2000 cap music venue, and 3 hotels.  Tailgating has not been impacted for either sport team.  

[homer]

54 minutes ago, owbc said:

I suspect that the Brewers' logic on keeping the parking lots is correct. A big reason for the Brewers' high attendance numbers is the ease of access via highways from long distances. The Bucks surely draw more from Milwaukee itself and their entertainment district is within downtown. Building another district from scratch would be tough -- at the very least one would want to start with streetcar connectivity which would be quite expensive and largely pointless at the start. Really what would be needed is dense mixed-use residential buildings and I just don't know if the demand would be there when Milwaukee has a variety of established neighborhoods already. 

We'll see how this lease goes, in the 2040s it might be time to have the discussion about a downtown ballpark. 

I think building parking structures largely addresses that issue. You probably have the same amount of parking spots they just take up less land. I think the fact that people can drive two hours and are guaranteed a game rain or shine is what helps attendance the most.

[jerichoholicninja]

I doubt there's enough of a population or disposable income to support both a Deer District and a Beer District. (See what I did there) There's already a beer district just up the hill from the park. I don't think people are going to stop going to their local bar before and after games and start eating and drinking at overpriced bars and restaurants because it's 10 minutes closer to the stadium.

[Brewcrew82]

14 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

I doubt there's enough of a population or disposable income to support both a Deer District and a Beer District. (See what I did there) There's already a beer district just up the hill from the park. I don't think people are going to stop going to their local bar before and after games and start eating and drinking at overpriced bars and restaurants because it's 10 minutes closer to the stadium.

Different populations. Deer District draws mostly from downtown/MKE residents. A Beer District could draw from outer MKE and suburbs (people likely with deeper pockets). 

[tmwiese55]

Yea in general I'd agree it would be cool and make sense for some development in the lots or the big open spaces between the park and the casino seems ripe for it too.   However, I see it from the team's perspective to just leave as it is.  Big development obviously would be a bunch of upfront capital on the hopes it comes back down the line.  Or, invest nothing and continue to easily collect a few million pure profit per year.  For folks who haven't gone to many games this year, preferred parking is now $40 on the weekends. They've essentially doubled parking prices in the last 5 years with no massive capital investment.

Also, side note I don't think I saw mentioned on here. At Saturday's game it was raining/storming outside and there was some clear leaking from the roof on the 1B side.  

[Jopal78]

On 9/18/2023 at 1:03 PM, jerichoholicninja said:

The winterizing thing seems like a pretty big deal.

For all those big stadium music tours that take place during Winter? The big acts don’t typically tour the Midwest between November and March. 

Without events to pack the place there’s not much value in winterizing it for Monster Truck Jam and Wrestle Mania.

[kestrel79]

What exactly does "winterizing" mean, did they say? Does it mean replacing the natural grass with fake grass? We know how much of a lightning rod that is right now with Bak on the Packers, increase of injuries.

I just feel like the stadium is pretty winterized already? Those later October and late March baseball games are cold weather too some years.

Jopal is right, what big time US stadium tour takes place in January? Usually they will just play at Fiserv for the winter tours if you're a larger band. The stadium stuff is for the Summer.

 

[jerichoholicninja]

Final Four or any basketball, any WWE event. Doesn't have to be a large event to be a money maker. I remember they had bowling at Miller Park about 15 years ago. Trade shows or conferences too, When I toured whatever the Arizona Cardinals stadium is called now they were setting up the floor for a trade show.