Cj abrams

[Klantz27]

Cj has 3 years left after this year. This would work out perfect as its just in time for made and pena to take over 3b and ss

Pratt is expendable imo because we have made and pena. turang at 2nd should produce well for a while. so no where for him to play 

Pratt/ bryce meccage/ mike boeve/ Ernesto martinez or tyler black / for abrams sounds reasonable 

 

[wiguy94]

14 minutes ago, Klantz27 said:

Cj has 3 years left after this year. This would work out perfect as its just in time for made and pena to take over 3b and ss

Pratt is expendable imo because we have made and pena. turang at 2nd should produce well for a while. so no where for him to play 

Pratt/ bryce meccage/ mike boeve/ Ernesto martinez or tyler black / for abrams sounds reasonable 

 

Not enough. Boeve and Black/Martinez just don't carry much trade value.

[TURBO]

We would see a noticeable difference on defense with Abrams at SS over Joey...

[endaround]

Abrams can be expected to be worth about 1.5 wins the rest of this season and 3 wins for each of the 3 seasons going forward.  At $9 million a win that is $94.5 million in value.  Using a 20%/40%/60% arbitration guideline, he'll be paid approximately $32.7 million, so he'll have an excess value of $61.8 million.  Pratt at an FV 50 prospect has about $28 million in value.  If you want to make it up without touching other top prospects, it would be really difficult.  Maybe if they value Myers as a major league start he could make up a chunk of value.

[adambr2]

12 minutes ago, TURBO said:

We would see a noticeable difference on defense with Abrams at SS over Joey...

I don’t know, Abrams isn’t having his best defensive year but his track record suggests he’s going to be fine there.

I agree that the original proposal isn’t enough. I don’t think Washington is really going to have any interest in dealing Abrams.

[endaround]

2 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

I don’t know, Abrams isn’t having his best defensive year but his track record suggests he’s going to be fine there.

I agree that the original proposal isn’t enough. I don’t think Washington is really going to have any interest in dealing Abrams.

We like DRS when it says Turang was the greatest defensive 2B ever last year and we don't like it when it says Ortiz is terrible at short.

[adambr2]

24 minutes ago, endaround said:

We like DRS when it says Turang was the greatest defensive 2B ever last year and we don't like it when it says Ortiz is terrible at short.

IMO we are getting a little over the top with the Ortiz defensive love around here. The fear that’s been expressed that the entire left side of the infield defense is going to seemingly fall apart with any SS besides Ortiz isn’t really supported by any rational metric.

Abrams is like a kajillion times better than Ortiz at baseball. I get that we don’t want to rock the boat too much on this team but we shouldn’t be afraid to add a really good player to replace a 66 OPS+ everyday hitter.

[Team Canada]

A team that just fired it's coach and GM because they weren't coming back quickly enough I don't think is going to trade away a cornerstone shortstop, ensuring they don't plan to be relevant for even more years. 

[adambr2]

6 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

A team that just fired it's coach and GM because they weren't coming back quickly enough I don't think is going to trade away a cornerstone shortstop, ensuring they don't plan to be relevant for even more years. 

Yeah, I agree. This is all probably a moot point.

Unless a team is in a hopelessly deep rebuild, even most sellers aren’t interested in selling their controllable young talent.

[Madhawk23]

Agreed that the original trade package isn't nearly enough.  I'm going to guess that it would take the following:

Made or Pena

Ortiz

Henderson

Letson

 

Abrams is an elite level big leaguer at a premium position, with 3+ years of control before FA.  Any package going back for him is going to have to sting.  The above package would definitely sting.  

[wiguy94]

2 hours ago, Madhawk23 said:

Agreed that the original trade package isn't nearly enough.  I'm going to guess that it would take the following:

Made or Pena

Ortiz

Henderson

Letson

 

Abrams is an elite level big leaguer at a premium position, with 3+ years of control before FA.  Any package going back for him is going to have to sting.  The above package would definitely sting.  

That's probably too heavy in the other direction. A top 20 prospect in baseball, a big league SS who has been bad this year but for his career looks like a reasonable bet to be 1-2 WAR guy, a back end Top 100 prospect, and a roughly Top 10 org prospect. If you swap Pratt for Made/Pena it seems more realistic.

[Madhawk23]

37 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

That's probably too heavy in the other direction. A top 20 prospect in baseball, a big league SS who has been bad this year but for his career looks like a reasonable bet to be 1-2 WAR guy, a back end Top 100 prospect, and a roughly Top 10 org prospect. If you swap Pratt for Made/Pena it seems more realistic.

Not sure I agree?  If you swap in Pratt to that package, I'm pulling the trigger on that deal immediately if I was Arnold....and to me that's always a sign that the package is probably too light.  Maybe I'm wrong (and we'll most likely never know of course), but I think the Nats would need to be absolutely overwhelmed with a return package to even entertain dealing Abrams.  Not sure if Pratt as the headliner is going to do that for them?  

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, Madhawk23 said:

Not sure I agree?  If you swap in Pratt to that package, I'm pulling the trigger on that deal immediately if I was Arnold....and to me that's always a sign that the package is probably too light.  Maybe I'm wrong (and we'll most likely never know of course), but I think the Nats would need to be absolutely overwhelmed with a return package to even entertain dealing Abrams.  Not sure if Pratt as the headliner is going to do that for them?  

Your suggestion was a very, very, very large overpay. I'll use BTV for current players and fangraphs FV value estimates for prospects.

Made - 60 FV prospect so $55M value, Pena - 55 FV prospect so $46M value, Pratt - 50 FV prospect so $28M value

Ortiz - $16.7M value

Henderson - 50 FV prospect so $21M value

Letson - 45+ FV prospect $6M value

for

Abrams - $50.1M value

That's a roughly $49M overpay with Made, $40M overpay with Pena, and $22M overpay with Pratt.

[B.F.-rakes]

I would love to see a move for Abrams,but it's a pipe dream for a couple of reasons. The Brewers organization have consistently made tier3/tier4 type of player moves at the deadline for the last 6 years or so that they were contenders at the break. Trading multiple high end prospects is a major gamble for a small market team like Milwaukee. They have to maintain a low payroll and the only way to do that and stay competitive is promoting quality prospects to the big league squad and the team controlled contracts Also the Brewers and P.Murphy tend to create a team that gels on and off the field. Abrams was sent down to the minors in august of 2024 for lack of hustle/commitment, the final straw was after an all nighter at a casino gambling, ending 5.hrs before 1st pitch of a day game. I know he is young, and most likely learned from his mistake. Also the Nats have high end prospect Seaver King(ss) excepted to reach the majors the same time as c.Pratt. so maybe Quero/Myers/Meccage type of trade.

[Dadbauer]

I know the Nationals weren't super close to competing anyway, but they REALLY are booting their window a few years after trading Gore today. Any chance we might want to revisit this after stockpiling a few more prospects in the Peralta trade? Maybe it makes a Pratt or Henderson more expendable. 

[SF70]

12 hours ago, Dadbauer said:

I know the Nationals weren't super close to competing anyway, but they REALLY are booting their window a few years after trading Gore today. Any chance we might want to revisit this after stockpiling a few more prospects in the Peralta trade? Maybe it makes a Pratt or Henderson more expendable. 

No, he doesn’t fit the Brewers insistence on plus defense or their time-line with Pratt-Made potentially a year away and needing to see if Ortiz can get his bat going so his GG defense at SS can play.

[CheeseheadInQC]

If the reports of what the Nationals turned down from the Giants are accurate, I am not sure I would get into a bidding war here, especially for someone whose breakout season was roughly as impactful as 2024 Joey Ortiz. You really have to be banking on him finding another gear to give up a lot of value.