BrewerFan

It seems similar to the Goldschmidt trade suggestion. I guess it'd depend on how highly you viewed Baty and if Cohen is going to push to re-sign Alanso, a NY favorite, but a significant amount of the value in a return would be a power-hitting 1B who's a rental in a year where we'd be without Woody and trading Burnes. I think we should be focused on getting young pitching back. The Phillies could be a team who are pretty desperate. They've been close, they have some massive investments, Nola is a FA. Burnes+Williams and see if we can pry Painter and a couple lower level arms away. That'd be ideal. From Phillies viewpoint, that may be a guy they're not willing to give up, so then Abel could become the center piece. Adames, unless he's valued as a 4-5 WAR player, I think the deadline makes more sense. But I'm just not as excited about looking for help in 2024. It's not gonna be like the Packers this year(I don't think). But I also don't really think we'll be a contender, so I'd really just be looking for people who could help us over the next 5-7 years and particularly on the mound. I think looking to "fix," the lineup is looking back and the next 5-6 years, our offense looks like it's set up pretty good.

Bitonti is likely going to end up at 3B, but that's largely an assumption due to his size at this point. I think Devanney has proven he can play SS. Not that he projects to be a big-time power hitter, but as you said, Pratt does. Baez is...not a SS from EVERY account and the fact that Clancy compared it to the "mistake" we made by moving Braun off 3B is telling.

Loki is good. There's a show on Prime, "Sprung," that's funny and kinda clever. It's the Mom and Dad from a show called "Raising Hope," that was on a while back. Watched it sporadically, but that show was funny. They have a very different dynamic in this one, but the story is they all get out of Prison due to Covid and being non-violent offenders and are trapped together and the "Good guy," is kinda roped into being the mastermind of these smaller heists. Funny and surprising show.

I think we're mostly passed this. It's not even about where he WANTS to sign IMO, we don't have the money to sign him without having a grossly imbalanced payroll with 2 players comprising...~35%+ of it. 22 for Yelich, I'd guess Burnes is in line to get 35. That'd be 57. We just had a payroll of ~138. That's over 40%. So even if he wanted to, it's unlikely this close to FA, we'd get him signed now or next year. We should be looking at it as 1 year of Burnes and then the QO, or whatever we can get for him in a trade. Just the realities of being in this market.

I don't know how this is confusing. YOU used the Cy Young as the barometer for what an ace. I pointed out he finished 6th and 7th the two other years(no voting this year). It's pretty straightforward. If you have "no idea what I'm talking about," I don't know how to go any further. The issue is how he's perceived though. He's perceived as an ace. You can find a dozen+ articles, that refer to him as an ace, 3rd in WAR the past 3 seasons, and led the league in WHIP. NOT being quite as good as he was when he was the most dominant pitcher in the league doesn't mean he's not an ace. Yeah, I don't think we will to put it even more simply. The Names being thrown around for Burnes now aren't disappointed and those are coming from numerous other sites. A top ~50, top ~100 and a 3rd prospect. That's what most people on here seem to expect as well as most of the proposals I've seen.

Yes, MLB.com mentioned the O's. Cowser(14th ranked prospect at the end of last year), Westburg(~70s) and a AAA starter with a ERA of ~5, but a ton of strikeouts. There have been a lot and all seem to reflect the opinion that Burnes is an ace.

Really? How do you win a Cy Young? Via...VOTING if I'm not mistaken. That's you...quite literally using Cy Young voting to set what the perception of Burnes was. So no, I was not the "only one," who used Cy Young voting, I was using your barometer. But fine, over the last two years, he's been either the 5th or the 12th most valuable pitcher in Baseball and he's 29 with a Cy Young. I'm pretty sure he'll still be viewed as an ace. Do you want to use War now? Whatever we use, lets make sure the target isn't moving and dodging as it makes it rather difficult to hit that target. I've seen maybe a dozen articles about Corbin Burnes being traded. Different team sites, SI, the Athletic, every single one of them refers to him as an Ace. He's 3rd in fWAR the last 3 seasons, he's been in the top 7 in voting the last 3 seasons...he didn't have a career year this year and now you don't think he's an ace. Disagree. Even Aces see some variation in their performance. IIRC, both Greinke and Sabathia had either subpar seasons for their standards either the year before we traded for them, or in Sabathia's case, the almost 20 starts the year we traded for him. I don't recall people saying, "well, he's a #1 more than an ace."

Ok...so you cited the Cy Young award, but using where he finishes in the voting is a..."poor definition?" Top 5=ace. So then when he was 6th and 7th, he wasn't an ace. You see how that's just incredibly vague and difficult to quantify?

The way Love plays vs a poor pass rush, or when we block well(I think the Rams are still pretty poor despite having Donald) just reinforces how much we need to improve the OL. He gets confidence and he starts to trust the receivers and his accuracy suddenly looks good. Valentine looks like a huge steal already. I don't know when/if Stokes will be back to build off his rookie year, but I like the future of that position with Jaire and Valentine. Rhyan... I don't know what we're missing. It has to be his pass protection vs quicker athletes or maybe he struggles with stunts? I'd like to see them try JRJ at Center and Rhyan at RG, but I'm not overly optimistic.

I can't understand Newman, but you could see last year during the family day 1 on 1's where he would go vs Wyatt, when he latched onto him, he was moving him, otherwise, Wyatt was beating him bad. I wonder if he's just better as a run blocker. Or...maybe he's just a good OG and we've been slow to adjust.

I was using Cy Young voting and what the perception of Burnes is...and I think he's still considered an ace.

Sure. The idea that Burnes isn't viewed as an ace anymore doesn't line-up IMO. He was 7th last year, won a Cy Young, 6th the year before. This year he wasn't QUITE as good, he did lead the league in WHIP, but he's a 29-year-old ace and the names that have been thrown out for him have been pretty impressive. I don't think the best we'll get is Busch, but IF that's the case, sure. Keep him.

You want the Brewers to give Burnes 6 years at 44M per year? ~260 for 6 years of a pitcher...for the Brewers...of Milwaukee? The Milwaukee in Wisconsin? Yeah, I think that'd do it. I think we'd be crazy at this point to give Burnes 44M a year over 6 years. I'd MUCH rather give Chourio half that over 10 years and then have some financial flexibility when you have the core of the #2/3 system in Baseball coming up and getting to arbitration.

Where's this from? MLB.com is reporting that Murphy is under contract for the 2024 season. Did we get something updated since that report? Edit-I see the reports that he didn't "re-sign," but...do we actually know if his contract expired this year? That's all I'm seeing to contradict the original reports that he's not under contract. That he was the lone coach to re-sign...but I'd assume these guys don't all go year to year.

I think there was a scoop and score with a lateral in there. So the Reggie lateral to LeRoy that started the Lambeau Leap. The one where Reggie may or may have stepped out.

If you're lacking arm strength, It's hard to see you going in the 1st rd. Penix, Ewers have average arms. Sanders arm strength and mobility put him as a late 1st if he comes out this year I think, another year and he could be 1-2 to Allar from PSU. McCarthy may also go back for that matter. It's possible there are only 2 QBs who have 1st rd-grade this year. Get the LT of the future, if Love's still not the guy, go get Allar, Sanders or whoever comes out of nowhere a year from now.

A blowout by WHO? The Bears should have blown the Saints out. But whatever, that's my point. The NFL is too close and even the bad teams are more than capable of beating the best teams. The Cards have actually been in several games this year and could easily have a better record...and with Murray coming back, I wouldn't be surprised to see them run off a few wins. The Panthers are the worst team, but even they have a rookie QB and it wouldn't surprise me to see him get hot later in the year and start to win. They have 2 games that they're big underdogs in. Again, I'm not saying the Packers end up in the top 2, but...the margin is so slim, Carolina could beat us, Chicago, TB, ATL, NO, Tenn. The only BIG upsets would be the Jaguars and the Cowboys. Meanwhile, we just lost to the Broncos and the Raiders. The draft order is going to shuffle quite a bit in the next 10 weeks.

Penix Jr seems like a backup to me. If we're taking a QB who's already got limited tools...everything had really better hit. McCarthy seems like the consensus #3 and a top ~20 prospect on just about every site, but he's I haven't really watched him enough to form a very strong opinion. Sanders looks like he could be interesting, but I am curious if he wasn't Deions son, if he wouldn't be rated a bit lower? IMO, at this time, having not watched any All-22(it's virtually impossible to get a good feel for a QB without all-22) two guys are as close to locks as you can be in Maye and Williams. There's a guy in McCarthy who people are high on, Sanders who looks like he's got ALL the possible tools you could want, but just one year of FBS experience...and then Nix who was very unimpressive in the SEC and Ewers who again, I haven't watched. I don't know that any of those guys are better prospects than Levis was last year and I think you're worse off drafting a QB you're not confident in, then trying yourself to him for 2-3 years rather than just foregoing QB altogether, drafting around the QB and then targeting one next year when Allar looks like another really good prospect. But sure, if they're really high on Sanders or fine. The only one I really don't want is Penix. He's just too similar to a Teddy Bridgewater to me. Limited arm strength, limited athletic ability (good athlete, not great). I think he'd thrive in a place like Minnesota, but in GB...I want the bigger tools and then try and develop a QB. Which is why I've also not given up on Love. He's just so frustrating as he looks like he's aiming the ball too often instead of just letting it go as he was earlier in the year.

Yeah... there are probably 50 draft-eligible QBs. They're obviously not all created the same. If you're going to replace Love at this point, without seeing him play with receivers who have more than 1 season under their belt, an OL that's been bad, and one of the worst running games, you need to be damn sure the guy you're using a 1st rd pick on is at least an upgrade on what you have. I suppose they may end up believing that's Ewers or McCarthy, but the consensus is there are two elite QBs and then a huge drop-off. If we're just drafting a QB and hoping, then we end up in a cycle like the Bears.

Yeah. And it is. I'm not saying the Cards have "one winnable game left." You are. I said it was unlikely the Packers could end up with a top 2 pick(BEFORE playing the Rams without their starting QB) and spelled out pretty clearly what I didn't agree with. Show me a contradiction. I don't THINK the Packers finish top 2(again, before their win yesterday) but I think your rationale is flawed. How about the Bears losing by ONE score to the Saints despite 5 additional turnovers? Is this really the hill we're dying on? Me saying it's illogical to say that 8 games into the season you can't say the Cards and Bears have just one more win? Hmmkay...

No, he wasn't. They sent down McCarthy and Philbin down there. Then Thompson and I believe Harlan went down there. BOTH groups to try and talk him out of retirement. He was adamant this time he was FINALLY retiring. Then we went through the off-season with Rodgers as the starter, we drafted Brohm, we drafted Flynn, we had 3 QBs, he wanted to come back and they said he'd have to compete for his job. He was not "pushed out." They asked him to come back...several times, then when they were well past that, he wanted to come back and was upset they didn't just hand him the starting job. So he had no reason to be upset with the Packers and I don't see how anyone argues he was pushed out. ****I GUESS if you want to make a steal man argument for Favre, he was "pushed out," that camp when they didn't just give into him...but I think that's a loose definition of the phrase pushed out.

Now...this is cute. The team that generates MASSIVE revenue and still ACTUALLY pinches pennies relative to revenue vs the Brewers! People can't really just look at this and go "oh...payroll higher, owner cares more," right? It's Chicago. Their ownership cares FAR more about real estate investments than the product on the field...

I have absolutely zero doubt he'd pass on one of these two QBs if they had as high of a grade on him as seemingly EVERYONE else does. What I hope he doesn't do is draft a guy like JJ McCarthy just to get another QB. If they think he's a legit QB, fine. I'd prefer they just build around Love(at least for one more year). It's nearly impossible to know what Love is with what we have at the moment. I'm kinda at that point where I can't actually root for them to lose, but...I'm not all that invested in them winning as it's counterproductive long-term, but it seems impossible(even before yesterday) to move below AZ, Car and Chicago. I think someone already pointed out, and the issue was already debated, but the Packers just aren't bad enough to catch up in the tankathon with the Panthers, Cards, and Bears. I'll guess we actually end up picking ~12th or so.

Yeah, I didn't say anything about Gary or Jones there bud and LouisEly cited several examples of players who WERE cut relatively quickly which...flat out disproves the claim he WON'T do that. Try and keep track of who you're talking to. Now I'll just cut and paste the response that was coherent and made sense in response to your claim; "Gutey hates to cut any of his higher draft picks and admit defeat no matter how evident it is that his pick is a failure." You cited a STs ace, a solid CB who wasn't as good as projected, but unquestionably one of the best 53, and a 4th rd Guard who's a backup and in his 3rd year... And you're still arguing this despite ample evidence to DIS-prove your point; @LouisEly made this comment...and was right.

His job isn't in jeopardy and if he did go out and spend a 1st on Maye or Williams, he's not going to be "punished" for that. They're spending significantly less money this year on the players on their team than anyone in the NFL after 3 straight years of winning 13 games trying to win an SB, they've completely turned over their roster, and Gutekunst isn't going anywhere while Murphy is here and that's through at least next year. I think the pretending would be a late 1st rd QB NOT being a franchise QB would mean he's fired. In any event, the argument went from he holds onto bad players too long to an ENTIRELY different argument that IF this QB isn't good, we can't "pretend," won't get him fired. Two...entirely different issues, and I don't care to go further into the 2nd as it's pointless.