General Lineup Discussion: 2011

[1992casey]

I prefer to talk about what is likely.

 

Yeah, what I'd like to see just isn't being done by managers. I want to see the best hitters batting 2 & 4 (or vice versa), the leadoff hitter having some pop in addition to OBP ability, and the #5 hitter being better than the #3 hitter. This would be subject to avoiding consecutive lefties, which isn't hard to do on this team.

 

Anyway, here's one that's somewhat idealistic:

 

Weeks

Braun

McGehee

Fielder

Hart

Lucroy

Betancourt

Pitcher

Gomez

 

And here's one that has a better chance of happening:

 

Weeks

Hart

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Lucroy

Betancourt

Gomez

Pitcher

[zzzmanwitz]

Ideally

 

Weeks

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Hart

Lucroy

Dickerson

Pitcher

Betancourt

[wishicouldhit]

Considering the majority of the Brewer's pitchers know how to swing the bat, there is a good chance that the pitcher bats 8th and Gomez. In the 2hole I would go with Hart and Luccroy batting 6th.

[cadillacjosh]

Weeks

Hart

Braunt

Fielder

McGehee

Lucroy

Pitcher

Gomez

 

Thats how I would like to see it. Gomez bunting from the 9hole would be pretty awesome. Although there is always some risk of having your pitchers run the bases.

[Crew2323]

You only have 8 batters listed including the pitcher. Who's playing shortstop? Unless you consider our present SS situation to be that bad! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[endaround]

The pitcher may bat 7th on this team...

[JohnBriggs12]

Gomez batted 25 points higher and slugged 50 points higher than his season totals when batting 2nd. Though still not an ideal number 2 hitter, I think you maximize his production there. You also eliminate having a weak bottom of the order of Betancourt, Gomez, Lucroy and the pitcher.

 

Hart did well hitting 2nd last year. He did better hitting 6th. I'd rather have a 100 RBI guy down there driving in runs.

[Invader3K]

Gomez would look so good batting 2nd if he could even get his OBP up just north of .300. Would be a huge advantage having him on the basepaths in front of Braun/Fielder/McGehee.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't agree that anything near a .300 OBP looks good batting in a lineup, let alone 2nd. I've given up on the dream of what Gomez could be... he is what he is, an outmaking machine that happens to be fast.

[3Putt]

I love Gomez's enthusiasm but he just seems too undisciplined to ever hit for a decent OBP. I'd like to see us bring a few veterans into Spring Training to compete. Considering we're rolling the dice on winning now we can't afford to have Gomez learn on the job.

[logan82]

Gomez batted 25 points higher and slugged 50 points higher than his season totals when batting 2nd. Though still not an ideal number 2 hitter, I think you maximize his production there. You also eliminate having a weak bottom of the order of Betancourt, Gomez, Lucroy and the pitcher.

 

Hart did well hitting 2nd last year. He did better hitting 6th. I'd rather have a 100 RBI guy down there driving in runs.

Really what you want to do with Gomez is minimize the impact he can make with his bat since it is so bad. I would rather have a bad bottom of the order instead of sticking those guys in the middle of our good hitters and killing a rally. The reason a guy is a 100 RBI guy is because they have guys on base.

 

I think you are using way to small a sample of stats to make any judgment on where he should hit. I any case by your logic we should bat Gomez #7. His .322/.395/.717 line batting 7th is his best batting line in any spot in the order. He also shouldn't play in Miller Park judging from his .264/.318/.582(yes, that's OBP/SLG/OPS) batting line which is significant;y worse than his overall line.

 

Speed is best leveraged after the #5 guy. Stealing bases hurts less and helps more in front of guys with less SLG.

 

Our hitters are in pretty clear tiers. No way do I want the 100 extra AB the #2 gets over the #6 going to the bottom tier.

Tier 1

Fielder

Braun

 

Tier2

Weeks

 

Tier 3

Hart

McGehee

 

The other guys

Lucroy

Betancourt

Gomez.

[CheezWizHed]

I want to see the best hitters batting 2 & 4 (or vice versa), the leadoff hitter having some pop in addition to OBP ability,

 

This part was easy to understand.

 

and the #5 hitter being better than the #3 hitter.

 

Not sure I get the point of this, however. Explanation?

[1992casey]

The number three hitter comes to bat with the bases empty and nobody two out more often than anyone else in the lineup. Even though the number five hitter will see fewer plate appearances than the number three hitter, the higher leverage of those plate appearances will offset the difference.

 

(edited based on logan3825's correction immediately below)

[logan82]

I thought it was #3 comes up with 2 out the most often.

[1992casey]

You're right. That's what I meant to say. I'll do an edit.

[YoungGeezy]

For some reason I think Gomez may step up this season, yes he has been in the majors for awhile now but he is still 25. Still not willing to say a 25 year is a complete bust and will never be anything.

 

I think

 

Weeks

Hart

Braun

Fielder

McGehee

Lucroy

Bethancourt

Pitcher

Gomez

 

Nice think is Weeks, Hart, Braun, Gomez all have the ability to steal at least 20 bases and could all be 30 SB guys. This season can be really exciting if Roenicke runs as much as he said he wants to.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I think that we will see a lot of Counsell batting second, which I guess means that Betancourt will also hit second. I worry about our offense a bit. We may still be a feast or famine team that puts up a lot of zeroes.

[brewers4eric]

I think that Roenicke will experiment with Gomez in the second spot in spring training, but will eventually end up stacking the top of the order with Weeks, Hart, Braun, Fielder and Maghee. The success of our offense probably depends on the sheer number of times that we can get those guys to the plate over the course of the season. The bottom of the order is going to be brutal at times.

[lithium75]

Ugh, a realistic question, when Gallardo pitches, do they go with:

 

Weeks

Hart

Braun

Fielder

Maghee

Gallardo

Lucroy

Gomez/Dickerson

Betancourt/Council

 

Yovani must be the sixth best hitter in this lineup, isn't he? I also like the lineup with Hart in center and Gamel in right, though I cringe at the defense they would play. There must be better SS and CF options out there somewhere.

[brewtank34]

Lithium,
I'm not sure it would be wise to put protect McGehee with Gallardo. The highest in the order you'll see Gallardo will be 8th, IMO

[logan82]

Gallardo may be a good hitter for a pitcher but he is still a pitcher.

[BrewCrewForever]

I would be shocked if the 1-5 was anything but Weeks, Hart, Braun, Fielder, McGehee. Those are your 5 best hitters, I want them getting the most AB's. Not even sure the 6 through 8 order matters. My guess is Yuny bats 6th, Gomez 7th and Lucroy 8.

[JohnBriggs12]

Gallardo may be a good hitter for a pitcher but he is still a pitcher.

Narveson doesn't take a backseat to Gallardo as a hitter either though without the power.

 

I still like Gomez hitting 2nd and Hart 6th. Gomez would see a lot more pitches to hit there (he hit a respectable .272 in that slot last year) and they need to do everything they can to get production from him. Hart showed last year he could produce hitting 6th where he posted a 1.091 OPS last year. I think hitting 2nd Gomez can post something like .265/.315/.385 and in Roenicke's run offense, steal 35-40 bases and score 80 runs. Batting 7th or 8th ahead of either Lucroy or the pitcher, he'll likely hit only .240/.290/.375. Another thing Roenicke may try is hitting Hart 5th and McGehee 6th.

 

Betancourt should hit 7th, because whoever hits there behind Fielder, McGehee, and Hart is going to have a lot of RBI chances. Betancourt has shown he can drive in runs.

[brewtank34]

Gallardo may be a good hitter for a pitcher but he is still a pitcher.

Narveson doesn't take a backseat to Gallardo as a hitter either though without the power.

 

I still like Gomez hitting 2nd and Hart 6th. Gomez would see a lot more pitches to hit there (he hit a respectable .272 in that slot last year) and they need to do everything they can to get production from him. Hart showed last year he could produce hitting 6th where he posted a 1.091 OPS last year. I think hitting 2nd Gomez can post something like .265/.315/.385 and in Roenicke's run offense, steal 35-40 bases and score 80 runs. Batting 7th or 8th ahead of either Lucroy or the pitcher, he'll likely hit only .240/.290/.375. Another thing Roenicke may try is hitting Hart 5th and McGehee 6th.

 

Betancourt should hit 7th, because whoever hits there behind Fielder, McGehee, and Hart is going to have a lot of RBI chances. Betancourt has shown he can drive in runs.

 

We have a winner! I'm almost positive that this will be the case come opening day, however what are the chances that we see Carlos given a shot at the leadoff position? Highly unlikely with the success that Weeks has had in that position, however imagine the production that Weeks could have in front of Braun. If Sveum can get Gomez to become a slap hitter instead of that power swing of his, Gomez could be the ideal lead off man for us this year. I'm really hoping Sveum has spoken numerous times with CG this offseason and has been instilling a different frame of mind for him.

 

[greeg35]

I'll stick with my ideal:

Weeks

Fielder

Braun

Hart

McGehee

Lucroy

Counsel

Pitcher

Gomez