Craig Counsell running out of gas?

[Invader3K]

This discussion came up on Twitter this morning, so I thought it would be interesting to talk about.

So far this season, Counsell has had a grand total of five starts, and 57 official at-bats. His hitting stats have definitely been bad. I think it's fair to say this represents a very small sample. However, I've seen a lot of Brewers fans saying that he's clearly over the hill, doesn't have much left in the tank, etc.

I don't see the Brewers trading or DFA-ing him. Does he need to go soon, or is it just a matter of the sample size being so small that no real conclusion can be drawn?

[DuWayne Steurer]

The sample size is definitely too small to draw any conclusions from, but it at least merits discussion.

 

I've said on more than one occasion, if the guy is simply not able to play a full game more than once a week, he needs to retire, so that roster spot can go to someone who can play. It's not like keeping him around as a LH pinch hitter is a necessity, they've got Kotsay for that.

 

I'd like to see Counsell play 2-3 times a week, but if he can't do that, then he needs to hang them up. Also, if he can't do that, I'd have to wonder if there's something physically wrong with him. I realize he's 41, but it's not like being physically active at 41 is unheard of, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Dragonbait]

Even at 41, He still puts the fear in opposing pitchers.... He still takes the 4 pitch walk... [/kinda blue/]

[DHonks]

I think Counsell's lack of playing time is based on healthy infielders that provide more offensive punch moreso than he can't play 2-3 times per week.

[endaround]

Which infielder would that be?

[joepepsi]

I'm just really happy they have defensive replacement Josh Wilson around to pinch hit.

[Yeti73]

He's pretty much toast. I still appreciate his ability to come in and take pitches, but he can barely get the ball out of the infield this year.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I don't think we can tell if he's out of gas or not based on his limited amount of play. RR must think he's done given how obvious it should be that he plays more over Betancourt. I'd rather see him platoon with Yuni, but if they aren't going to use him, they probably should move on.

[RockCoCougars]

All he can do is make the routine play in the field and take a walk at this point. He's got to be nervous about Wilson being brought in, because I still don't know why you need two of these guys around.

[monty57]

Roenicke seems to make his decisions based on Spring Training, so Counsell's poor ST is probably the biggest reason he hasn't seen many starts. At this stage of his career, I doubt he'd be much of an improvement on defense over Yuni, but he probably wouldn't be worse. He hits LH and can still get on base, so he should get at least a start or two per week at SS.

 

As for retiring, he's guaranteed his $1MM+ salary unless he retires. There's no way he retires before the season's over. Even if he's let go, we still have to pay him.

[endaround]

He'd be a huge improvement on defense. Betancourt is a win below average on defense over a season, playing Wilson full time would likely be an improvement. The real issue is can Counsell's bat play enough to offset the hopeful improvement in Betanocurt's bat? The problem is that this isn't the first season that Betancourt just didn't hit, this is looking a lot like his 2009.

[monty57]

He'd be a huge improvement on defense.

 

When was the last time Counsell logged enough games at SS to justify saying that he would be a huge improvement? Yuni's problem is range... I doubt the 41-year-old Counsell has much more range than Yuni. Plus, that range would likely decrease if given regular starts, as 41-year-old bodies get tired. Yuni's not good, but Counsell might not be the improvement some hope for.

 

The problem is that this isn't the first season that Betancourt just didn't hit, this is looking a lot like his 2009.

 

Agreed. I hope he starts to improve to his normally "blah" hitting.

 

I think Counsell should start a couple games a week. Putting them in a straight platoon, where Counsell would get regular starts could get ugly. Maybe not, maybe he's that rare specimen who never seems to age. Realistically, those players have all but dried up since the crackdown on PEDs, so relying on Counsell to play in 70% of the games going forward doesn't seem like a well-thought-out plan.

 

playing Wilson full time would likely be an improvement.

 

Unfortuantely, Melvin may have realized too late how bad Yuni can be, but he also realizes that playing Counsell even 1/2 time probably isn't an option. Therefore, drum roll please, we may start seeing more of Wilson, so we may be forced to see if the above-quoted statment is true.

[RockCoCougars]

No way should Counsell be getting regular playing time. He has 1 extra base hit in 67 plate appearances this season- that is Chris Dickerson-esque. Since the DL list is getting much shorter, at some point, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some type of 'injury' to allow everyone to save face. If Betancourt doesn't pick things up with the bat, I have a feeling someone will be brought in from another organization to start at short. Who that is, I don't know- we'll have to see who is falling out of contention in the next 6 weeks (right now, my money is on J.J. Hardy).

[diener34]

Saving him for Game 7 in the World Series.

[pebadger]

No way should Counsell be getting regular playing time. He has 1 extra base hit in 67 plate appearances this season- that is Chris Dickerson-esque. Since the DL list is getting much shorter, at some point, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some type of 'injury' to allow everyone to save face. If Betancourt doesn't pick things up with the bat, I have a feeling someone will be brought in from another organization to start at short. Who that is, I don't know- we'll have to see who is falling out of contention in the next 6 weeks (right now, my money is on J.J. Hardy).

 

I was just looking at JJ's numbers and the Orioles organizational situation in the middle infield earlier today. For all the Yuni bashing here I haven't seen much in the way of constructive brainstorming as to exactly what the Brewers should do about the situation. Counsell is not the answer IMO. Neither is Wilson. That's just exchanging a whipping boy for a guy who isn't a whipping boy, probably netting roughly the same production. There may be some guys out there, but what does the organization have available to go out and get somebody that will be a marked improvement?

 

I think Counsell is probably mostly done. He'll have one or two moments this season that will make everyone happy. What, if anything, he provides in the way of intangible clubhouse benefits is a whole library of debate itself. In the end, this all comes down to the Brewers still having certain constraints within which they have to operate. THey went out and got Greinke and Marcum. They're rolling through the season with Fielder. They signed the big Hart and Weeks deals. Braun is the cornerstone. What else do people really expect them to do, within the bounds of reason, with respect to their infield situation?

[logan82]

The best thing for the SS position would be to limit the number of PA against RHP and time on defense from Betancourt. Counsell is almost exactly what we are looking for. I agree that provided he can start 2-3 times a week he should be. If he can't, hang en up.

[dlk9s]

Of course he's running out of gas. He's 41-years old. And even though he himself has said that he's not up for playing every day, I would think his under-use has hurt his productivity.

 

The question is does he provide value to the team. I think so.

[Brewer Fever]

The Brewers should ask him to retire and then pay the difference left on his contract for him to be an infield coach or special instructor.

[JJHardy7]

Maybe a stupid question...but...is there a site that shows a batter's average swinging speed (i.e. has Counsell's bat slowed down)?

[Mr Southpaw]

Trade for Omar Vizquel, have a three way platoon, then play the hot hand. We are not going to get a great SS this year, so just make due.

[razzzorsharp]

Counsell only runs on diesel fuel. That's where he gets his massive power from.

[Mr Southpaw]

One PH

One Walk

One run

[owbc]

Counsell's OBP: .318

Gomez' OBP: .280

 

Why do opponents keep walking Craig Counsell?

[greeg35]

That may be a good picture of how many balls are out there if you are a) patient and b) have a good eye. Pitchers must just miss the strike zone that much because I have to believe they aren't avoiding counsell...

[RockCoCougars]

Counsell's OBP: .318

Gomez' OBP: .280

 

Why do opponents keep walking Craig Counsell?

Why does the #9 hitter on the little league team walk so much? He doesn't swing much, and pitchers can't throw strikes when he's up to bat. I will argue until the day that I die that unless you are talking about an elite hitter hitting in front of a non elite hitter (Prince for example), walks are mostly a product of the pitcher.