Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[homer]

Watkins was a full participant today.

edit: Watson

 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Doubs sounds like he has the confidence of Rodgers...but Watson so clearly does not.

Watson would go a long way to earning some confidence from Rodgers by just being available...missed a bunch of camp due to injury, dropped the first dime Rodgers threw to open the season, then missed week 3 due to another injury.  Doubs has proven that being on the field for increased snaps will present more opportunities to make plays and start getting the ball thrown your way more often.

Watson has plenty of physical tools to be a really good receiver - but it's going to take time for him to put it all together.  I'm also hopeful glimpses of what this offense can be continue to shine brighter if Rodgers keeps distributing the ball to different players with a variety of looks, with more of them being downfield.  The Packers did a good job of a varied passing game early against Tampa and made some tough 3rd down conversions on their 1st two scoring drives - then Tampa seemed to condense the field and the Packers had no deep passing game counter to keep the safeties honest and they got largely shut down the rest of the game.  A guy like Watson on the outside is very important to open up the middle of the field for Tonyan, Lazard, and Doubs....but he's got to get on the field and Rodgers has to give him more opportunities to make those downfield plays.  I also saw the neglected opportunities in the Bears game where Watson had his man beat and the ball didn't go his way.

[UpandIn]

5 hours ago, homer said:

Watkins was a full participant today. 

Watson...obviously, but I've done this several times. Having a Watkins and Watson at the same position and both injured...

4 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Watson would go a long way to earning some confidence from Rodgers by just being available...missed a bunch of camp due to injury, dropped the first dime Rodgers threw to open the season, then missed week 3 due to another injury.  Doubs has proven that being on the field for increased snaps will present more opportunities to make plays and start getting the ball thrown your way more often.

Watson has plenty of physical tools to be a really good receiver - but it's going to take time for him to put it all together.  I'm also hopeful glimpses of what this offense can be continue to shine brighter if Rodgers keeps distributing the ball to different players with a variety of looks, with more of them being downfield.  The Packers did a good job of a varied passing game early against Tampa and made some tough 3rd down conversions on their 1st two scoring drives - then Tampa seemed to condense the field and the Packers had no deep passing game counter to keep the safeties honest and they got largely shut down the rest of the game.  A guy like Watson on the outside is very important to open up the middle of the field for Tonyan, Lazard, and Doubs....but he's got to get on the field and Rodgers has to give him more opportunities to make those downfield plays.  I also saw the neglected opportunities in the Bears game where Watson had his man beat and the ball didn't go his way.

Yeah, all the time he's missed is not helpful. 

This is one of the things that makes these ugly offensive performances more palatable though. There are so many reasons to expect things to improve. The OL should look night and day different from week 1 to week 18. The WRers hopefully will be better. You'd have to assume with more PT they will be. 

But that'll take Watson being available. It'll also take Rodgers being quicker to get over mistakes than he may have been in the past. I remember when James Jones had what seemed like a drop a game on passes like the 1st play vs the Vikings in the SB run, but he kept coming back to him. Jordy also had a problem with drops back then...but Rodgers just kept going back there. Jones and Nelson kept playing as well though. 

[homer]

Packers spot on this list surprised me. Gotta turn those into points. Also, the Giants are a one man show. Stack up on the run.

 

[UpandIn]

21 hours ago, homer said:

Packers spot on this list surprised me. Gotta turn those into points. Also, the Giants are a one man show. Stack up on the run.

 

I believe this is the type of game...normally at least, the whole London thing could throw things off, but going up against a back like Barkley, I could see the Packers playing with energy and trying to make a point and making a concerted effort to shut Barkley down. He reminds me of a Barry Sanders/Adrian Peterson hybrid...but not as elusive as Barry(though faster) and not as physical a runner as AP, but he's also a slasher.

But with 5 of their top 7 WRers either on IR or banged up and questionable for this game...with former boy wonder, Todd Marinovich converted to WRer in David Stills V getting the ball from David Mills most likely with Daniel Jones and Tyrod Taylor both injured, the passing game doesn't figure to be much of a threat even without Jaire. This is a good opportunity for the defense to go out there and really just clamp down the Giants. 

Kinda strange to call it a statement game, but even with two elite run blocking tackles in Andrew Thomas and Evan Neal, this should be a game where Campbell, Walker and the safeties really step up.

Hopefully guys who have had slow starts like DeVondre Campbell, Dean Lowry, TJ Slaton, Savage and Amos

[UpandIn]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2022/10/04/aaron-rodgers-says-he-could-target-christian-watson-more-in-the-future/

 

In other good news, Rodgers seems to be taking notice of Watson and some of the opportunities missed.

Just need the rookie to keep plugging along, keep getting the ball in his hands on jet sweeps or shovel passes and hopefully we can start pushing the ball downfield with the 6'5 freak of nature. 

If "all" he does as a pure WRer is provide the deep threat MVS did as a rookie, he changes this offense while also adding another component in the run game. So hopefully we're moving in that direction. 

As I've said, I think this season will be on #12. To prove he can make it work with the younger WRers and build some chemistry with them earlier on. He's certainly doing that with Doubs. 

 

[homer]

haha

 

[PeaveyFury]

The Packers made a largely under-the-radar signing of LB Eric Wilson off the Saints' practice squad yesterday. Wilson is another highly regarded special teams guy.

The Packers have certainly added a number of guys to specifically address special teams play, and I think the results of that are showing so far.

[Fear The Chorizo]

12 minutes ago, PeaveyFury said:

The Packers made a largely under-the-radar signing of LB Eric Wilson off the Saints' practice squad yesterday. Wilson is another highly regarded special teams guy.

The Packers have certainly added a number of guys to specifically address special teams play, and I think the results of that are showing so far.

They've been solid, IMO...there has been a punt return here and there that goes off for a few too many yards and their return game still is nonexistent, but it's night and day different not having weekly implosions that were altering outcomes of games and enormous field position disadvantages compared to the previous couple years.

Crosby only has a 31% touchback percentage on kickoffs so far in 2022 - far from elite in the NFL, but the special teams aces brought in really have shored up kickoff coverages to negate that weekness.  Not great but at least average, which is a huge leap from recent special teams units.

[UpandIn]

10 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

They've been solid, IMO...there has been a punt return here and there that goes off for a few too many yards and their return game still is nonexistent, but it's night and day different not having weekly implosions that were altering outcomes of games and enormous field position disadvantages compared to the previous couple years.

Crosby only has a 31% touchback percentage on kickoffs so far in 2022 - far from elite in the NFL, but the special teams aces brought in really have shored up kickoff coverages to negate that weekness.  Not great but at least average, which is a huge leap from recent special teams units.

Packers special teams have been...pretty damn close to elite thus far. CERTAINLY relative to where they were last year. 

Start with the FG unit. They're tight, they're blocking very well and Crosby has hit everything clean. No missed kicks.

Punt Unit- Leads the league in both punts inside the 20 with 11, percent of punts inside the 20 at ~62%...and they've downed multiple inside the 5.

The KO unit has also been very good.

Touchback percentage isn't really a goal, starting field position is. Otherwise every team would just have their kickers try and kick the ball out of the back of the endzone. Pretty sure Crosby COULD do that if needed, but if he couldn't, O'Donnell could, but then you're giving up Field Position(and at this point I think it's really just working on doing it for when it gets colder. Still, Crosby IS kicking the majority of his kicks into the endzone with...yet again the longest average KO of his career just barely beating last years, but the goal is to kick them higher...so your coverage unit can get downfield and to one side of the field to limit their returns. He's done very well with that.  

Game by game;

Vs Minnesota 2 KO, 1KR, 1 TB Starting Field Position 22 yardline
Vs the Bears, 6 kickoffs, 5 KRs, 1TB average starting field position 17.6 yardline, 1 TB(2 more kicked into the endzone).
Vs Tampa Bay 3 KO, 1 TB, avg field position, 24 yard line
Vs NE  1TB, average field position 28.5
One big return(against the return specialist Marcus Jones they drafted) and that was kicked 4 yards deep into the Endzone. 

 

They haven't muffed a punt. Rodgers returns have been very solid in the return game. Night and Day from last year. 10 Fair catches, 8 returns, 8 yards per return. That's fine. But he hasn't let any go over his head. Hasn't lost the offense any yards.

5 KRs, average of ~21 yards per KR. 8 PR for an average of 8 yards per return and 10 Fair Catches. And a couple of those Punt Returns, they were just rolling around, so he fell on them.

 

I don't know that you could ask much more out of a Special Teams Unit that fell apart last year vs SF the way it did to just finish off that **** sandwich they were eating all year long...it was almost as if people...on several sites predicted STs would cost the Packers at the worst times. 

O'Donnell is off to an incredible start. His only "flaw" would be the Packers have seldom kicked from deep in their own territory, so they don't have the big punts, but the few times they've needed them, he's come through. A 72 yarder, a couple 60+ yard punts. 

And Ford, Nixon, Walker and Leavitt have been outstanding. Hopefully Eric Wilson can step right in and be as well. 

 

Bottom line, we've had the WORST special teams in the NFL the last 5 years...even when we had Mason Crosby hitting 38 of 40 FGs. 
That we're ranked in the top 10 right now and it's 4 games in?

Jesus...just name Rich Bisaccia the Coordinator of the year award right now and double his already league leading 2M AAV salary!

Or wait until he does it through February, but it's been a huge bright spot in an otherwise..."meh," season. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Agreed with just about everything you said - however I'm not sure Crosby can actually kick the ball out of the endzone at will anymore.  If he could, then he would've been doing that the previous few years when kick coverage units were atrocious.  Even back then teams were running out kicks 5 yards into the endzone because of how bad Packer coverage units were.

[homer]

I think this is Mason's last year. 

[UpandIn]

4 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Agreed with just about everything you said - however I'm not sure Crosby can actually kick the ball out of the endzone at will anymore.  If he could, then he would've been doing that the previous few years when kick coverage units were atrocious.  Even back then teams were running out kicks 5 yards into the endzone because of how bad Packer coverage units were.

Maybe he couldn't do it consistently...but I think if that was their goal, they'd have O'Donnell kicking off. He can almost definitely kick it out of the endzone is normal conditions.

The problem is, too much of our season is played in poor conditions, particularly for a kicker. 

3 hours ago, homer said:

I think this is Mason's last year. 

That's certainly possible and I think you're in the majority in holding that opinion. We remain in cap purgatory...where we will stay...regardless of the cap increasing and even if they do finish paying back their Covid losses this year(though a nice 50M bump would make things...MUCH easier).

The list of key contributors who are free agents is a long one and Crosby would be ~40 at the end of another deal. But I think he's one of several players who's fate will be determined by Rodgers. It's hard to see them going with a rookie kicker given the great lengths they've gone to fix STs while contending. And of course it'll depend on Crosby. If he's back to how he was hitting the ball prior to last year, it might be hard to roll the dice with a rookie from Alabama or some other warm climate which is where ALL the good kickers seem to come from. There is a kid from Indiana who has a monster leg, but I don't know if it's an NFL caliber one.

Crosby was just such a seemingly obvious choice when we drafted him. One of the all time clutch kickers, kicked at Col in Snow, Sleet...just awful conditions. I think it'll be a little difficult to find another kicker who can have the same success he's had in such poor conditions.

 

Edit-Most Clutch Kickers ever...though for whatever reason, ever Bleacher Report articles seems to be from April of 2012, so...not exactly up to date, but still.

Next up, Least Clutch Kickers of all time-1-25 Every kicker FSU had between 1975 and Janikowski. 

[HarryDoyle]

Daniel Jones will start the game for the Giants.

[HarryDoyle]

Just in case there are people who still think the Packers will be 6-1 5-2 going in to Buffalo, the Jets just demolished Miami.

[HarveysWBs]

4 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Just in case there are people who still think the Packers will be 6-1 5-2 going in to Buffalo, the Jets just demolished Miami.

There’s no sugar-coating today, and I know no one is in the mood to hear any defense of MLF, but allow me to violate law one of internet discourse (never get in the way of a good tar and feathering) for a moment and remind everyone that the next time MLF loses two regular season games in a row will be the first.

This is a team with a lot of pride, a lot of veterans, and a home date against the New York Jets.  They’re embarrassed right now, and deserve to be.  They need to get three things right, and it’s pretty straight forward:

1) Overhaul the right side of the offensive line.  Newman needs to be on the bench, and that probably means Jenkins is at RG, and either Tom or Nijman goes to RT.  This also means Bakh should just be full-go at LT.  I’ve been on record here not getting my hopes up about his performance and availability this year, and I think they’ve been perfectly careful with him, but I don’t think they can wait anymore. Time to let it rip.

2) Communicate in the secondary.  Yes, there will still be some fair criticisms of the schematic issues for Barry (especially an unwillingness to bring pressure, which, if used judiciously, will be immensely helpful), but Barry did seem to make some needed changes today, at least to my amateur eyes.  He seemed more willing to have defenders closer to the LOS, and really, they did the thing everyone believed they had to do to keep this game in hand: not let Barkley beat them.  But the secondary had its worst game in what feels like years.  I mean, the NFC CG against Brady still hurts, but that was mostly just one guy (King).  This game and the Minnesota game involved massive failure at multiple levels, and has to be an issue with assignments.  They can be better, but it’s on them to figure it out.

3) Run the football.  They need to do it now, and they sure as heck better be prepared to keep doing it if they expect to flip the playoff script this year.

I feel pretty good about some immediate progress on 1 and 3, and expect a comfortable win over NYJ.  But if not…look out.  The narrative will be worse than it has been since McCarthy.

[HarryDoyle]

57 minutes ago, HarveysWBs said:

There’s no sugar-coating today, and I know no one is in the mood to hear any defense of MLF, but allow me to violate law one of internet discourse (never get in the way of a good tar and feathering) for a moment and remind everyone that the next time MLF loses two regular season games in a row will be the first.

This is a team with a lot of pride, a lot of veterans, and a home date against the New York Jets.  They’re embarrassed right now, and deserve to be.  They need to get three things right, and it’s pretty straight forward:

1) Overhaul the right side of the offensive line.  Newman needs to be on the bench, and that probably means Jenkins is at RG, and either Tom or Nijman goes to RT.  This also means Bakh should just be full-go at LT.  I’ve been on record here not getting my hopes up about his performance and availability this year, and I think they’ve been perfectly careful with him, but I don’t think they can wait anymore. Time to let it rip.

2) Communicate in the secondary.  Yes, there will still be some fair criticisms of the schematic issues for Barry (especially an unwillingness to bring pressure, which, if used judiciously, will be immensely helpful), but Barry did seem to make some needed changes today, at least to my amateur eyes.  He seemed more willing to have defenders closer to the LOS, and really, they did the thing everyone believed they had to do to keep this game in hand: not let Barkley beat them.  But the secondary had its worst game in what feels like years.  I mean, the NFC CG against Brady still hurts, but that was mostly just one guy (King).  This game and the Minnesota game involved massive failure at multiple levels, and has to be an issue with assignments.  They can be better, but it’s on them to figure it out.

3) Run the football.  They need to do it now, and they sure as heck better be prepared to keep doing it if they expect to flip the playoff script this year.

I feel pretty good about some immediate progress on 1 and 3, and expect a comfortable win over NYJ.  But if not…look out.  The narrative will be worse than it has been since McCarthy.

Newman needs to be in the unemployment line.

[HarveysWBs]

Saw someone doing yeoman’s work on the Packers subreddit today.  They broke down pts per drive based on how they used Aaron Jones in the first three plays.  Result: running Jones at least once in the first three plays of the drive yielded twice as many average points as the much-maligned pass-pass-pass approach.

Aaron Jones is the captain now.

 

[nate82]

12 minutes ago, HarveysWBs said:

Saw someone doing yeoman’s work on the Packers subreddit today.  They broke down pts per drive based on how they used Aaron Jones in the first three plays.  Result: running Jones at least once in the first three plays of the drive yielded twice as many average points as the much-maligned pass-pass-pass approach.

Aaron Jones is the captain now.

 

But that is kind of obvious.  If the defense only has to account for one form of offensive plays from the offense then they are going to be better at defending.  For example if the defense doesn't have to respect the run game then they can play back further meaning your linebackers can play a little further back during pass plays which puts the linebackers in a better position to defend the pass.  The same with defensive backs like your safeties.  Your safeties can play further back and away from the line knowing they don't have to respect the run game.  It gives the safeties more freedom to look to break up pass plays down the field and to get to the medium and short routes easier.  The safeties can react quicker and cover the gaps that the linebackers are not able to cover easier as the ground they have to cover is smaller.  

The same is true if you have a run-run-run approach.  The linebackers and defensive backs can play closer to the line of scrimmage as they don't have to respect the passing game.  Finding a balance in the offense where the defense has to play for both the pass and the run will give the offense more of an advantage.  Limiting the plays that you are going to run only helps the defense and doesn't help you offensively.  

[adambr2]

Do you think getting away from the run in the 2nd half is a MLF/OC  thing or an Aaron Rodgers thing? I'm genuinely curious. I know Rodgers gets a ton of leeway to call his own plays and they do a lot of run/pass options for him to decide at the line. 

Several times in the 2nd half yesterday after the Giants had a big drive I see the offense come out and chuck up several contested bombs and I think "MLF cannot possibly be this dumb of a coach." I'm wondering if Rodgers is letting in-game emotions get the best of him and calling these plays at the line and I don't think MLF would ever come out and throw him under the bus by admitting this. 

[GreatNWwi]

13 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Do you think getting away from the run in the 2nd half is a MLF/OC  thing or an Aaron Rodgers thing? I'm genuinely curious. I know Rodgers gets a ton of leeway to call his own plays and they do a lot of run/pass options for him to decide at the line. 

Several times in the 2nd half yesterday after the Giants had a big drive I see the offense come out and chuck up several contested bombs and I think "MLF cannot possibly be this dumb of a coach." I'm wondering if Rodgers is letting in-game emotions get the best of him and calling these plays at the line and I don't think MLF would ever come out and throw him under the bus by admitting this. 

My son and I had this exact conversation yesterday.  We are unsure of the answer but lean towards its a Rodgers thing.

I half expect the seemingly even tempered MLF to slam his headset to the turf on the next 3 and out that consists of two bombs and another bad pass.

[kestrel79]

14 hours ago, adambr2 said:

Do you think getting away from the run in the 2nd half is a MLF/OC  thing or an Aaron Rodgers thing? I'm genuinely curious. I know Rodgers gets a ton of leeway to call his own plays and they do a lot of run/pass options for him to decide at the line. 

Several times in the 2nd half yesterday after the Giants had a big drive I see the offense come out and chuck up several contested bombs and I think "MLF cannot possibly be this dumb of a coach." I'm wondering if Rodgers is letting in-game emotions get the best of him and calling these plays at the line and I don't think MLF would ever come out and throw him under the bus by admitting this. 

In my head that's what I think is going on. It's a Rodgers thing, and MLF just won't throw him under the bus and will take the blame for it as his play calling.

Maybe he sees something at the line that thinks he can exploit something, but we just don't have the WR talent or experience to do what he sees in his head on the field yet.

I can see AR and MLF having a friendly rivalry on who's play works best...and so far AR has been striking out on his plays.

[bjkrautk]

I think getting away from the run game is, at least in part, a scheme thing.  The Packers like to run when teams show a two-high safety look, and prefer to pass when the other team's defense brings a safety down into the box.  Smart defensive coordinators can use that tendency to their advantage, and goad the Packers into passing when they should be looking to run the ball by how they line up.

[MrTPlush]

I think it is an Aaron Rodgers AND MLF thing. However, I definitely think it is way more the fault of MLF/coaching staff. We can nitpick a few plays here and there that we assume were the decision of Rodgers...but let's be honest. Most of the plays are coming from the sideline and the gameplan is kind of on the coaching staff too. For every nitpicked play of Rodgers I am willing to bet he bails the Packers out of two plays in return. 

I fail to believe the offense consistently lays an egg (which is a massive issue since the current coach came here) because one of the Top 5 QBs in the game's history. That seems like a biiiig stretch.

On another note it is slightly frustrating watching the Chiefs lose Tyrek Hill, but replacing him with JuJu/MVS. We replaced Adams with keeping 50 year old Cobb and a pair of rookies. 

[UpandIn]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:17 PM, HarryDoyle said:

Just in case there are people who still think the Packers will be 6-1 5-2 going in to Buffalo, the Jets just demolished Miami.

Yeah, that doesn't make the Jets some type of powerhouse. Did you see what happened in that game? Or who was playing QB for the Dolphins?