Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[UpandIn]

19 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

He is out today. They are talking about it right now on pregame, they worked all week on reshuffling Oline and now Bakh goes down between Friday and Saturday blowing up the plans. 

Yeah, I don't know why they deviated from their plan to not have him practice more than 2 days in a row...and then had him go 5 straight practices after their recent travels(or why they don't give players Toradol shots like even College programs do for inflammation so players can play)...but it still makes no sense to move on from him. 

[HarveysWBs]

Sometimes I like to play a little game. It’s called “How can the Packers hurt me the most?”  Green Bay drops three straight to East-division teams, looking absolutely moribund and in need of a scorched earth rebuild while all of their  recent draft picks look like dumpster fires.  At this point I would be ready to resign myself to a lost year, at minimum.

But this is the Packers we’re talking about, the producers of pain.  So they’ll prepare and play like their season depends on it (which, to be fair, it does) and pull out a win in Buffalo.  Rodgers will wink a few times in the postgame interview, drop a new catchphrase, w/e.

Then Gute gets on the phone, actually completes a trade for a difference-making WR, sacrificing major draft capital.  Hope springs eternal.

Meanwhile, Bakh’s knee remains balky and he plays only intermittently for the rest of the year, and the offensive line remains a total liability,  Joe Barry, fresh off a shocking turnaround against Buffalo’s high-octane offense, returns to his normal passive defense, and the so-called “playmakers” continue to deliver stunningly boneheaded miscues rest of season.  They manage a few wins against pathetic teams, but never by more than a score.

Final record: 8-9, no playoffs, Rodgers retires, and there’s precious little draft capital to build with.  That might be how they hurt me the most.  Either that or another miracle run to an NFC championship game they have no business being in, so our draft picks are even worse next year.  Either way.

[GAME05]

How about a late resurgence from the Packers sees them win a bunch of games at the end, only to miss the playoffs on a tiebreaker. Rodgers decides to keep playing because he's making too much money not to, but he's clearly lost it. But the late run is enough to convince top brass that the coordinators are geniuses and they're retained. The first-round pick is then spent on a safety.

[Fear The Chorizo]

To me, the offensive woes have to start upfront with the line - if you can't block anyone consistently without penalties you can't run anything in the passing game worth a darn no matter who's running routes for you.  Some of it is personnel and injury-related, however I think a big problem also lies with the coaching staff upheaval this past offseason that saw their OC and QB coaches leave to other teams, then saw the internal promotion of their Oline coach to OC.  Stenavich was great in his role as Oline coach, but I'm sure he isn't as involved with that position group in the OC role.  

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of blame for MLF putting together shoddy gameplans and frankly being terrible this season at making in-game adjustments with playcalling and scheme....and Rodgers looks much like he did during the 2019 season when there was plenty of reason to draft a QB in the 1st round in 2020 (Hello Jordan).

As for the defense, there's just no consistency and there are continued coverage gaffs that lead to big plays and 3rd down conversions that keep them on the field too damn long.  They aren't a sieve, but they seem to shoot themselves in the foot far too much to become the strength of this roster that frankly needs them to be elite based on draft pick use and contracts.  I think Quay is going to become a really good linebacker but he's a rookie - having Savage making bad coverage mistakes right behind him gives teams too many options in the middle of the field to make plays.  Then, having soft zone coverage on too many plays based on the Barry scheme is going to let decent quarterbacks carve them up.

Just alot going wrong and not really anything going right this season.

[MrTPlush]

Aaron Rodgers is fine. Considering his O-Line sucks, has absolutely pathetic WRs, and has to play through an injury because he is the only way this team can even pretend to be relevant...he has done a decent job. Is he an unworldly MVP out there, no, but Rodgers is so far from one of the issues with this team. 

Rodgers was the only reason they even had a chance to win yesterday. He was well on his way to leading them down the field when Sammy Watkins went full stupid on a simple 4 and 1 play. Instead, it gave easy field position for Washinton to kick a field goal. THEN Rodgers marched them down the field to score a touchdown to go down by 2 points. THEN our pathetic defense could not stop Washington to get the ball back with a decent amount of time. Heck, Rodgers probably easily trots them into field goal range had J. Alexander not been a complete idiot and tackle the dude in bounds. That alone would have afforded them realistic time to not pray for some lateral play to win it.

Every time Rodgers isn't the greatest QB in the league people chuck him under the bus. Maybe we shouldn't surround him with crap and then expect him to carry the entire team on his back. Then again, the Packers have been expecting that for basically decades. Why not just expect 38 year old Rodgers to do it again and again.

[homer]

O-Line was fine yesterday:

 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

Aaron Rodgers is fine. Considering his O-Line sucks, has absolutely pathetic WRs, and has to play through an injury because he is the only way this team can even pretend to be relevant...he has done a decent job. Is he an unworldly MVP out there, no, but Rodgers is so far from one of the issues with this team. 

Rodgers was the only reason they even had a chance to win yesterday. He was well on his way to leading them down the field when Sammy Watkins went full stupid on a simple 4 and 1 play. Instead, it gave easy field position for Washinton to kick a field goal. THEN Rodgers marched them down the field to score a touchdown to go down by 2 points. THEN our pathetic defense could not stop Washington to get the ball back with a decent amount of time. Heck, Rodgers probably easily trots them into field goal range had J. Alexander not been a complete idiot and tackle the dude in bounds. That alone would have afforded them realistic time to not pray for some lateral play to win it.

Every time Rodgers isn't the greatest QB in the league people chuck him under the bus. Maybe we shouldn't surround him with crap and then expect him to carry the entire team on his back. Then again, the Packers have been expecting that for basically decades. Why not just expect 38 year old Rodgers to do it again and again.

By Rodgers standards, his accuracy has been terrible so far this season. I think it's pretty clear that time is creeping up on him. That doesn't mean he can't QB a Super Bowl contending team, though. It just means that they need to surround him with talent, circa late-career Broncos Peyton Manning. They really haven't done that. Yeah, blaming the cap is the easy way out, but there are ways to add talent while circumventing the cap. Just look at what the Rams and Chiefs continue to do. 

It's almost as if the Packers front office wants Rodgers gone, and they are taking an extremely passive aggressive trail to get there.

[homer]

Rodgers is also missing guys that are open and choosing to check down right away. Maybe he's gun shy because the line has been bad but there have been missed opportunities every game.

[CheezWizHed]

One of two things is happening with Rodgers this year:

1. His thumb is hurting more than we know and his accuracy comes and goes.
2. He isn't trusting his players to make plays downfield and his longer throws are to ensure no INT. 

Rodgers isn't the worst problem we have this year (maybe his cap hit it though), but he has his issues and certainly isn't helping as much as in years past.  Maybe time to draft another QB in the 1st round to light another fire under him.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Maybe time to draft another QB in the 1st round to light another fire under him.

I think I'd prefer giving the last 1st round QB they drafted, who's 3 years into the system, a shot at being the longterm answer before drafting another quarterback next year - that's all assuming this listless ship doesn't get turned around and everyone's pretty much on board with giving Rodgers a strong push towards walking into the sunset.

[Fear The Chorizo]

36 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

One of two things is happening with Rodgers this year:

1. His thumb is hurting more than we know and his accuracy comes and goes.
2. He isn't trusting his players to make plays downfield and his longer throws are to ensure no INT. 

Rodgers isn't the worst problem we have this year (maybe his cap hit it though), but he has his issues and certainly isn't helping as much as in years past.  Maybe time to draft another QB in the 1st round to light another fire under him.

I think the thumb is something to be considered for the last two weeks in terms of errant throws, and point No 2 you listed above is his general mindset on avoiding risky throws....I also don't think they are running plays/routes capable of beating cover 2 shell defenses - so much emphasis on short-breaking routes/rubs and bubble screens to try and get guys open quickly or get blockers in front of a player with the ball in his hands just always had defenses staying aggressive with everything happening in front of them.  There's nothing in the intermediate to target seams and gaps in the zones downfield that actually stress safeties and linebackers in the middle of the field.

 

[CheezWizHed]

2 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I think the thumb is something to be considered for the last two weeks in terms of errant throws, and point No 2 you listed above is his general mindset on avoiding risky throws....I also don't think they are running plays/routes capable of beating cover 2 shell defenses - so much emphasis on short-breaking routes/rubs and bubble screens to try and get guys open quickly or get blockers in front of a player with the ball in his hands just always had defenses staying aggressive with everything happening in front of them.  There's nothing in the intermediate to target seams and gaps in the zones downfield that actually stress safeties and linebackers in the middle of the field.

 

Agreed. I'm starting to see MLF as a major part of the problem here. No second half adjustments, his unpredictable/flexible/do anything offense seems to be pretty defensible.  Yes, we have a skillset issue with our WR right now, but that has been the same problem for the last few years when we find someone with a strong D scheme.  

I'm not ready to write off Barry's hiring as a failure quite yet (heading there), but it certainly was a questionable one given his other options.

[adambr2]

I think we have to be open to the possibility that elite QB has covered up a lot of issues over the years and that this really isn't as well run of an organization as we thought it was. 

[MrTPlush]

1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

I think we have to be open to the possibility that elite QB has covered up a lot of issues over the years and that this really isn't as well run of an organization as we thought it was. 

Was this really a mystery though? The entire second half crap has been going strong the entire time MLF has been the head coach. His choke jobs in the playoffs are well documented.

Honestly, MLF seems like a total bum who can only ride the coat tails of whatever Rodgers is doing. If Rodgers plays next year I am pretty confident MLF is long gone. Rodgers seems pretty frustrated in game and after games on how MLF is doing things.

Maybe MLF isn’t a total idiot…but I can’t really come up with anything he does positive. Why keep him around? Rodgers may be the most vocal, but I am pretty sure he isn’t the only guy in the locker room wondering what in earth this coaching staff is doing.

[UpandIn]

11 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

One of two things is happening with Rodgers this year:

1. His thumb is hurting more than we know and his accuracy comes and goes.
2. He isn't trusting his players to make plays downfield and his longer throws are to ensure no INT. 

Rodgers isn't the worst problem we have this year (maybe his cap hit it though), but he has his issues and certainly isn't helping as much as in years past.  Maybe time to draft another QB in the 1st round to light another fire under him.

Why don't we mix the two and then add a 3rd. The OL isn't giving him enough time to allow for deeper throws.

The throw to Amari Rodgers was a pretty good one. Great job by Amari to get behind the defense, but it was about 5 inches too long.  IDK, he's rolling to his right and throws the ball, on the run. That was pretty damn accurate. 

To be able to judge his deep throw accuracy, we'd need to see actual designed deep throws. The vast majority are him throwing the ball up when we've got 1 on 1 on the outside and he's hoping someone catches a 50/50 ball. 

He did miss...6-8 short throws this past week and then on a couple others, Tonyan or Lazard took the ball off the ground. Then he comes back and drops a dime rolling to his left to Jones in the endzone.

 

I don't think there's any one reason any part(every part) of this team is struggling.  Hell, you could add  a 4th with Rodgers. With DLs in his lap all day, he's also gone back to throwing from awkward platforms on a more regular basis. He's certainly talented enough to do that, but I think your accuracy comes and goes. 

 

I still think this team beats Buffalo. What'd be more appropriate than losing to both New Jersey teams, then the WFT...then beating the best team in the NFL(with respect to Philly...who is the matchup from hell for GB at the moment). 

[UpandIn]

13 hours ago, homer said:

O-Line was fine yesterday:

 

Yeah, but Rodgers got the ball out extraordinarily quickly. It was baked into the plan. I was very impressed by Tom...even if he got help all game long. Best DT duo in the league outside of Philly...IMO. They've got a great trio. 

But I'd been told that Tom wasn't big enough yet. That he had every other attribute you could want, but was lacking size/strength required. He certainly looked small, but athletic. He's not likely to get beat by many speed rushers...though guys like Bosa could give him a little more trouble.

Either way, the OL wasn't a problem vs Washington, but I don't know if they were actually that great either...despite the good grades. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

11 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Was this really a mystery though? The entire second half crap has been going strong the entire time MLF has been the head coach. His choke jobs in the playoffs are well documented.

Honestly, MLF seems like a total bum who can only ride the coat tails of whatever Rodgers is doing. If Rodgers plays next year I am pretty confident MLF is long gone. Rodgers seems pretty frustrated in game and after games on how MLF is doing things.

Maybe MLF isn’t a total idiot…but I can’t really come up with anything he does positive. Why keep him around? Rodgers may be the most vocal, but I am pretty sure he isn’t the only guy in the locker room wondering what in earth this coaching staff is doing.

I think this is a little too one-sided. I don't think Lafleur is the terrible coach you make him out to be, nor is Rodgers the god-like presence you seem to be indicating he is. I see some issues with Lafleur for sure, but I also believe that he truly hasn't been able to implement the offense he really wants because of Rodgers still being there, and Rodgers' insistence on sticking to what he is comfortable with. The only times that Rodgers has really bought into the lafleur gameplan is these few games that Adams has been out the last few years. I thought that would translate to this season, but instead, Rodgers has basically inserted either Lazard or Cobb into the "Adams" role, and has tried to operate the same way he has the last three years. That obviously isn't working. Rodgers has had some moments this year, but they are too few and far between for any sustainability. But he's also trying to play hero ball. He needs to check the ego and take a step back and allow the offense to work as its intended. 

[UpandIn]

5 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I think this is a little too one-sided. I don't think Lafleur is the terrible coach you make him out to be, nor is Rodgers the god-like presence you seem to be indicating he is. I see some issues with Lafleur for sure, but I also believe that he truly hasn't been able to implement the offense he really wants because of Rodgers still being there, and Rodgers' insistence on sticking to what he is comfortable with. The only times that Rodgers has really bought into the lafleur gameplan is these few games that Adams has been out the last few years. I thought that would translate to this season, but instead, Rodgers has basically inserted either Lazard or Cobb into the "Adams" role, and has tried to operate the same way he has the last three years. That obviously isn't working. Rodgers has had some moments this year, but they are too few and far between for any sustainability. But he's also trying to play hero ball. He needs to check the ego and take a step back and allow the offense to work as its intended. 

It's just disappointing to hear Rodgers talk after the game and then today on the McAfee show. It's literally everyone else but him. He spent time talking about how guy should have snaps taken away, they need to "crack the whip," and then pointed out how yesterday was his "highest graded game." 

I don't know how much of the game plan is his or how much of the playbook. We've heard Mercedes Lewis say it was kinda 50/50 with Rodgers keeping in plays he likes or feels comfortable with. Whatever, that's fine. 

His body language on the field is absolutely terrible, he's taking virtually none of the blame despite numerous low throws or missed throws while also holding WRers to INCREDIBLY high standards(the Amari Rodgers play he called a drop). 

Rodgers may not be THE problem. The first issue has been OL play. Then WRer play and their youth. But he's also the MVP, face of the franchise, the guy who's supposed to set an example and I don't see that happening.

[HarryDoyle]

Rodgers is making an ass out of himself again throwing teammates under the bus while not taking ownership of his mediocre play this season. What a leader.

https://www.nfl.com/news/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-says-guys-who-are-making-too-many-mistakes-shouldn-t-be

[bjkrautk]

For what it's worth, based on #12s comment that players making mistakes should be benched, Jordan Love is currently trending on Twitter. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

2 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

Rodgers is making an ass out of himself again throwing teammates under the bus while not taking ownership of his mediocre play this season. What a leader.

https://www.nfl.com/news/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-says-guys-who-are-making-too-many-mistakes-shouldn-t-be

He has always said things like this. It's a headline and making you angry now only because the team is 3-4. Much ado about nothing.

They have looked like garbage and he's said multiple times that he has to be better. I'm just more convinced than ever there is literally nothing he can say without it being the wrong thing. 

They've had 1 loss halfway through year before and he's said guys need to clean things up and we're not at full speed yet. Nobody cared. 

The "time is catching up" stuff is also kinda comical to me. I mean at some point, yeah that is true. But this forum told me that 4 seasons ago. 

I'm sort of 50/50 on this year. I can see them getting it together because they usually do. But this is the first time I've wondered if the talent is really there for that to be possible. The offense is bad. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

2 hours ago, UpandIn said:

It's just disappointing to hear Rodgers talk after the game and then today on the McAfee show. It's literally everyone else but him. He spent time talking about how guy should have snaps taken away, they need to "crack the whip," and then pointed out how yesterday was his "highest graded game." 

I don't know how much of the game plan is his or how much of the playbook. We've heard Mercedes Lewis say it was kinda 50/50 with Rodgers keeping in plays he likes or feels comfortable with. Whatever, that's fine. 

His body language on the field is absolutely terrible, he's taking virtually none of the blame despite numerous low throws or missed throws while also holding WRers to INCREDIBLY high standards(the Amari Rodgers play he called a drop). 

Rodgers may not be THE problem. The first issue has been OL play. Then WRer play and their youth. But he's also the MVP, face of the franchise, the guy who's supposed to set an example and I don't see that happening.

Ah yes. The classic body language pull. The one thing that absolutely never changes but is always an issue during losses. When you win it's demanding perfection. When you lose it's bad body language. You guys watch too much ESPN. 

90% could be called holding guys accountable which yes, he should be doing. Particularly if the effort isn't there Tuesday - Saturday from some guys. Which he would know and we would not. 

[UpandIn]

9 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Ah yes. The classic body language pull. The one thing that absolutely never changes but is always an issue during losses. When you win it's demanding perfection. When you lose it's bad body language. You guys watch too much ESPN. 

90% could be called holding guys accountable which yes, he should be doing. Particularly if the effort isn't there Tuesday - Saturday from some guys. Which he would know and we would not. 

Yeah...you're right. I'm not capable of an independent thought...I can't come to my own conclusion from watching the game, it's from ESPN...something I haven't actually watched since the game, but...sure. 

Also important that Rodgers point out this past week was HIS highest graded game, so it's really everyone else's fault. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

37 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

Yeah...you're right. I'm not capable of an independent thought...I can't come to my own conclusion from watching the game, it's from ESPN...something I haven't actually watched since the game, but...sure. 

Also important that Rodgers point out this past week was HIS highest graded game, so it's really everyone else's fault. 

Here's the point: Were you complaining about his body language last season when they were sitting 6-1 or whatever and he was berating guys for not being where they are supposed to or missing blocks? Because he was doing it then and I heard crickets. This body language thing resurfaces every time the Packers have a bad month. 

The obvious reply is that it was ok because Rodgers was playing better. Ok, sure. But if Rodgers's gripes here are legitimate then it is happening more than it has in the past. 

I don't see how his comments are poor leadership. It's accountability. When guys say nothing they are soft and coddling, speak up and it is bad leadership I guess. Tough crowd. 

I'm sure he's talked to these players behind closed doors. I doubt they are too busted up about vague comments he makes to Pat McAfee. Probably not the right career for them if otherwise.

[UpandIn]

7 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Here's the point: Were you complaining about his body language last season when they were sitting 6-1 or whatever and he was berating guys for not being where they are supposed to or missing blocks? Because he was doing it then and I heard crickets. This body language thing resurfaces every time the Packers have a bad month. 

The obvious reply is that it was ok because Rodgers was playing better. Ok, sure. But if Rodgers's gripes here are legitimate then it is happening more than it has in the past. 

I don't see how his comments are poor leadership. It's accountability. When guys say nothing they are soft and coddling, speak up and it is bad leadership I guess. Tough crowd. 

I'm sure he's talked to these players behind closed doors. I doubt they are too busted up about vague comments he makes to Pat McAfee. Probably not the right career for them if otherwise.

No...because it didn't look even remotely similar to what it does right now. He wasn't going on his talk show talking about how HE had his best game of the year, but it's everyone else. 

He also actually took responsibility last year(at least some). Virtually none this year. You don't see how that's poor leadership?

 

Edit-

If you DO require it, other executives and scouts seem to have noticed the same thing. 

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/rival_execs_say_aaron_rodgers_body_language_is_worse_than_ever_looks_like_he_doesnt_want_to_be_there/s1_127_38027066