Game Thread (7/17/2022): Brewers (Ashby) at Giants (Webb) - 3:05 PM CDT

[NBBrewFan]

Just now, willie key said:

This will get the offense is average people very excited.   

They might need a book.

[willie key]

5 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

They might need a book.

Or a cold shower

[Nola Beery]

32 minutes ago, Pugger said:

And you shouldn't depend upon HRs to create offense.  They come in bunches.  Situational hitting is alien to these guys.

I am unable to express how much I agree with this.

 

[The stache]

I hate…HATE being negative. But this franchise continues plodding along, decade after decade, and never gets any closer to a championship. *****, even the lowly Marlins have won two of them.

We make bad decision after bad decision, and we just live with them. We have a manager who everybody gushes about “being one of the best” that continually pisses away game after game with his boneheaded decision making. And giving Yelich all that money after the broken knee, before we knew it and how it would affect him long term, was colossally stupid. And I’m sorry, the, “well, he was massively underpaid when he was an MVP, so it’s really not that bad” narrative is just another piss poor attempt at rationalization that is emblematic of the Milwaukee Brewers franchise. 
 

The sports media in Milwaukee never hold ownership’s feet to the fire, never ask the tough questions of our manager after losses like the one the last night when Counsell obstinately refused to see Hader’s unraveling. Just one softball question after another.

An acceptance of mediocrity permeates this organization from the ground floor up, We’re so proud of the fact that we make the playoffs now. Whoopie! So, instead of face planting in the regular season, we do it now in front of a national audience. 
 

I’m tired of just being “competitive”. We play in one of the two weakest divisions in baseball. The baseball gods have gifted us the Cubs, Reds and Pirates, and we should be beating them like a drum. We can’t even do that.,

[Nola Beery]

I don't see the games or sense the body language or visible dugout vibe of the team. 

But whenever  I listen to CC's monotone radio chats, or see him on TV (which is very rare), I sense ZERO degree of fire or excitement.  Some player has to take charge, and not with words but with  deeds.    

[Sixtolezcano]

2 hours ago, mtrebs said:

This last offseason was the time to do it when we still were going to have all their best pitchers. It’s obvious they aren’t going to take that approach now, instead they will “stay competitive” to keep people in the seats and hope for a playoff push, but really there won’t be much of a chance to really make a deep run in the playoffs.

I truly don’t think the “playoffs” are in our future this year.

[Nola Beery]

25 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

I truly don’t think the “playoffs” are in our future this year.

Much can happen in the 2d half. You don't have to the D_-_ Yankees to get hot and go all the way. But, alas, with a mere  half-game lead (thanks to a  St Louis rainout today) I don't sense any heat at this point. I hope I'm wrong.   

[Jim French Stepstool]

Here's what I think will happen.

They won't sell off players with value who aren't approaching FA. Nor should they.

They aren't going to trade the "top guys" in the system, like a few on here fear. That would be silly under the circumstances.

Some want to see them approach the next two weeks like the Chicago National League ball club did last year at this time. Won't happen, nor should it.

I also don't think they put a lot of stock in the "This division sucks, they aren't going anywhere anyway" theory. If there's any GM out there with that kind of attitude, I'm glad he's not here.

They'll IMO make some moves to try to improve, but the most eggs will be in the basket of the guys already here needing to play better. And they have the capacity to. Anyone who doesn't believe that, that's cool, disagreement is what fuels boards like this.

 

 

[folly412]

The schedule is favorable in the second half, they get Peralta back, and they're now letting almost everyone in the playoffs, which are a crapshoot.  Season is alive by all means.

I'd argue a lot of pessimism is because the entertainment value of the roster just isn't there.  Currently 14th in home attendance, the lowest since 2016, during a rebuild year.  Other than a day Burnes is pitching, who would fans pay to see?  I like watching Freddy pitch when he's healthy as well, but after that I'm out.

Take 2018, when you had an MVP Yelich, Braun, just signed and good Cain, Thames and Aguilar, Pina catching, Shaw hitting 30 homers.  Who is on the roster now that's as fun to watch?  The big signing was McCutchen, eight years too late.  Adames' homers are kind of interesting, the .294 OBP is not.  

I'm really hopeful for guys like Frelick, Weimer, Turang, Chourio.  Feels like it would be more fun to have fewer wins but have some young home grown talent in the lineup rather than always searching for the next player in a position jam that another team is willing to part with.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Nola Beery said:

 Some player has to take charge, and not with words but with  deeds.    

I hope that isn't important, because there ain't nobody like that on the roster, at least that I can tell. I think there's value in that sometimes, which is one of the reasons I enjoyed having Prince Fielder here. Without saying much, I think Lo Cain was a great leader, a gamer. 

In a way they remind me of a girls' fastpitch team. Enthusiasm, today's a new day, we all love each other, let's have fun wearing the toy glove & ringing the bell. Trouble is, when things go south those are often the teams that wind up just staring at one another, not knowing which way to turn. Then, and only then, is when a mgr like Counsell can be a bit of----not a detriment, but not a solution either.

[sveumrules]

2 hours ago, The stache said:

baseball gods have gifted us the Cubs, Reds and Pirates, and we should be beating them like a drum. We can’t even do that.,

Cubs (6-7) sure, but we are 7-2 vs CIN and 9-4 vs PIT this year.

22-13 combined for the three is a .629 W% (102 win pace over 162).

Problem is we’re 28-30 vs everyone else.

[The stache]

I don’t think the schedule is so favorable. In a 41 game stretch, we play:

The Cardinals 5 times

The Giants 2 times.

The Rays 2 times.

The Dodgers 7 times.

The Mets 3 times. 

The Yankees 3 times. 

We also play three against an improving Red Sox team, and have all sorts of games against the kinds of teams we should whip (the Pirates, Reds, Cubs, Rockies, Dbacks), yet always seem to play down to their level. 

I think even assuming that we make the playoffs at this point is a bit of a stretch. I’m not at all please with the way the team is playing right now. 
 

 

[brewmann04]

The one guy I would Move is Wong 

[yourout]

While i don't have stats to back it up i feel that the DH has hurt the Brewers more than helped them.

Our pitchers were among the better hitting ones and other teams have added better bats at the DH than the crew. 

Now our pitchers have to work harder and it feels like other teams are able to shorten Brewer starts and the middle relief is just not very good.

[Jim French Stepstool]

12 minutes ago, folly412 said:

The schedule is favorable in the second half, they get Peralta back, and they're now letting almost everyone in the playoffs, which are a crapshoot.  Season is alive by all means.

I'd argue a lot of pessimism is because the entertainment value of the roster just isn't there.  Currently 14th in home attendance, the lowest since 2016, during a rebuild year.  Other than a day Burnes is pitching, who would fans pay to see?  I like watching Freddy pitch when he's healthy as well, but after that I'm out.

Take 2018, when you had an MVP Yelich, Braun, just signed and good Cain, Thames and Aguilar, Pina catching, Shaw hitting 30 homers.  Who is on the roster now that's as fun to watch?  The big signing was McCutchen, eight years too late.  Adames' homers are kind of interesting, the .294 OBP is not.  

I'm really hopeful for guys like Frelick, Weimer, Turang, Chourio.  Feels like it would be more fun to have fewer wins but have some young home grown talent in the lineup rather than always searching for the next player in a position jam that another team is willing to part with.

Great post. 

I think the entertainment value is largely attached, by this organization anyway, to home runs. It's gotten so skewed, become such an obsession with so many players, that it's skewed in the opposite direction. Who wants to see 3 or 4 home runs in a game, when that's pretty much ALL you see? We played a game called strikeout as kids. Most ABs resulted in home runs, K's or walks. Fun game to play. No way will I pay to watch adults play it though.

I DO think they recognize this, by the recent drafts. I'm optimistic the alarming lack of position players coming up here & contributing will soon end. Garrett Mitchell has hit the ground running since rejoining Biloxi; it's stuff like this that keeps me going. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

6 minutes ago, yourout said:

While i don't have stats to back it up i feel that the DH has hurt the Brewers more than helped them.

Our pitchers were among the better hitting ones and other teams have added better bats at the DH than the crew. 

Now our pitchers have to work harder and it feels like other teams are able to shorten Brewer starts and the middle relief is just not very good.

I know I enjoyed the game more w/o the DH just for the chess match aspect of it. As far as the Brewers are concerned I think another reason it may hurt is that Counsell, while not many of us are happy with him right now, was pretty darn good at manipulating in-game moves, double switches & the like. That, and the three batter rule for relievers, has homogenized him somewhat.

[jason21nl]

4 hours ago, BruisedCrew said:

I think the lockout and pandemic have something to do with it. The Brewers get a lot of attendance from groups that schedule outings, mainly during the summer months, and last year and this year there was uncertainty about whether games would be played. 
 

I also wonder if there are more people like us who have lost some enthusiasm for attending games in person because the pace is so slow and there is so little action. It was a lot different 40 years ago when the average game was about 40 minutes shorter than it is now.
 

 

I live in Appleton and it’s too much money for me to make the trip down there with my wife and two kids.  

[Jim French Stepstool]

25 minutes ago, The stache said:

I don’t think the schedule is so favorable. In a 41 game stretch, we play:

The Cardinals 5 times

The Giants 2 times.

The Rays 2 times.

The Dodgers 7 times.

The Mets 3 times. 

The Yankees 3 times. 

We also play three against an improving Red Sox team, and have all sorts of games against the kinds of teams we should whip (the Pirates, Reds, Cubs, Rockies, Dbacks), yet always seem to play down to their level. 

I think even assuming that we make the playoffs at this point is a bit of a stretch. I’m not at all please with the way the team is playing right now. 
 

 

I don't think the sked is all THAT favorable, either. But your last sentence sums it up for me. I think HOW their playing right now is the biggest issue. If that gets cleaned up they can have success regardless of the sked, certainly enough to win this division. If the guys currently here don't play better certainly no acquisitions will make any difference.

[Brewcrew82]

Schedule is actually very favorable coming out of the break. Toughest series is in Boston, but the Red Sox aren't exactly lighting the world on fire themselves right now. Otherwise, series against the Reds, Pirates, and Rockies present us with a great opportunity. Freddy coming back sometime within the next month or so will be big as well. I remain optimistic, but they will actually have to play better. Hader's blown save on Friday seemed to doom them for the rest of the series. 

[willie key]

Stearns is going to have to pull a few productive players out of his rear end.  In this market I don’t think it will be easy

the cardinals aren’t a juggernaut but they are favorites now.   Their schedule is easier I believe and if run differential gives any kind of meaning to future performance  they are just playing better 

[SomewhereInTime]

8 hours ago, LouisEly said:

And they're too lazy to look at the other teams in the league to realize that a majority of them either have similar hitting and worse pitching or better hitting and much worse pitching.

The Brewers are above league average in runs scored and above average in runs given up.  Lots of other teams have just as bad of an offense, if not worse, and just as bad of 10th-13th members of the pitching staff if not worse.

Yup, it's pretty simple, they are 12th in runs scored in MLB and 14th in runs allowed in MLB.  People make it out to be a bottom five offense or something.  I get that it's a low batting average team but they make up for it with above average OBP and SLG numbers.  They really don't have any regulars who struggle at the plate.

[Robocaller]

10 hours ago, Nola Beery said:

I am unable to express how much I agree with this.

 

Have you watched much baseball in the last 40 years? Even longer than that; Earl Weaver said the key to winning games is the 3-run HR.

 

[Robocaller]

6 hours ago, willie key said:

Stearns is going to have to pull a few productive players out of his rear end.  In this market I don’t think it will be easy

the cardinals aren’t a juggernaut but they are favorites now.   Their schedule is easier I believe and if run differential gives any kind of meaning to future performance  they are just playing better 

anyone who thinks the Cardinals are a threat doesn't understand baseball.
the only threat is (the performance of) our own players.

 

[BruisedCrew]

9 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Schedule is actually very favorable coming out of the break. Toughest series is in Boston, but the Red Sox aren't exactly lighting the world on fire themselves right now. Otherwise, series against the Reds, Pirates, and Rockies present us with a great opportunity. Freddy coming back sometime within the next month or so will be big as well. I remain optimistic, but they will actually have to play better. Hader's blown save on Friday seemed to doom them for the rest of the series. 

The schedule in the next 5 series is about as “favorable” as the last 5 series against the Pirates (twice), Cubs, Twins, and Giants, and the Brewers went 8-10 in those games. 
 

The Giants weren’t exactly lighting the world on fire either, but the Brewers got them straightened out. After a steady diet of Blue Jays, Rays, and Yankees the Red Sox will be looking at the Brewers as a break in their schedule. 
 

The Brewers had better get themselves straightened out in the next 5 series because the next 5 after that (Rays, @Cards, Dodgers, @Cubs, and @Dodgers) are going to be a stern test. 

It’s a pretty safe bet that Peralta and Houser won’t be back for any of these games so the Brewers are going to have to find a way to win without them. The performances that we’ve seen for the last two months from the pitching, hitting, and fielding aren’t going to get it done. 
 

[Pugger]

3 hours ago, Robocaller said:

Have you watched much baseball in the last 40 years? Even longer than that; Earl Weaver said the key to winning games is the 3-run HR.

 

That would be great but the guy hitting the homer has to have runners on base.  How many times in July other than the first game against the Giants have we had multiple run homers? 

How many times have we failed to scratch a run across with a guy in scoring position with less than 2 outs?  I would hate to look up the number of runners we have left on base this season.