Hiura Slighted and Demoted; Adames hitting #2 with a .289 OBP

[Jopal78]

24 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

You are confusing what is being said. I believe it is a slam dunk, easy decision, to play Hiura DH against righties. Cutch should sit. I am not calling on Hiura to be the Brewers rep. at the All Star Game….. He’s the team’s best option.. easy… for this year against righties at DH. 

He also is getting such limited at bats and spot starts; that would be  tough and difficult on anybody. Yet he STILL has a better OPS than our best hitter(?)…the guy that cannot be taken out of the 2 spot! His righty OPS numbers are comparable to MVP candidates. AND our team desperately needs another threat against righties. Are we hoping that Cutch will come around the last part of September? It would be great to see what his numbers would be with twice the at bats, with all or most against righties. Hiura was just playing against lefties for a while and Cutch continues, mind you, to still face righties. Nobody is bragging Cutch’s #s up much when putting Hiura down, by the way.

Also, I tire of the reasoning that since CC decided it, it must be the right decision. He makes mistakes too, and it is ok to question this. He should have a good excuse for not playing a better hitting option at DH in a select situation, but he doesn’t. At least not a sane one.  Cutch is better, he thinks, for 2022 than Hiura at DH against righties.  This decision is keeping us on the outside of the playoffs right now, much like not giving Aguilar many more at bats in 2017.

 

 

 

It’s not this hard. No doubt, Keston brings dingers against right handed pitching.
 

Yet there obviously is something about his game that, the undoubtedly smart baseball people running the Brewers believe, trumps the right handed dingers to such an extent they go with a different player. 

It’s a damn shame it’s the third week of September and no journalist has asked what that might be. 

[rickh150]

14 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It’s not this hard. No doubt, Keston brings dingers against right handed pitching.
 

Yet there obviously is something about his game that, the undoubtedly smart baseball people running the Brewers believe, trumps the right handed dingers to such an extent they go with a different player. 

It’s a damn shame it’s the third week of September and no journalist has asked what that might be. 

It is a shame, indeed. Maybe I missed it… 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

11 hours ago, rickh150 said:

You are confusing what is being said. I believe it is a slam dunk, easy decision, to play Hiura DH against righties. Cutch should sit. I am not calling on Hiura to be the Brewers rep. at the All Star Game….. He’s the team’s best option.. easy… for this year against righties at DH. 

He also is getting such limited at bats and spot starts; that would be  tough and difficult on anybody. Yet he STILL has a better OPS than our best hitter(?)…the guy that cannot be taken out of the 2 spot! His righty OPS numbers are comparable to MVP candidates. AND our team desperately needs another threat against righties. Are we hoping that Cutch will come around the last part of September? It would be great to see what his numbers would be with twice the at bats, with all or most against righties. Hiura was just playing against lefties for a while and Cutch continues, mind you, to still face righties. Nobody is bragging Cutch’s #s up much when putting Hiura down, by the way.

Also, I tire of the reasoning that since CC decided it, it must be the right decision. He makes mistakes too, and it is ok to question this. He should have a good excuse for not playing a better hitting option at DH in a select situation, but he doesn’t. At least not a sane one.  Cutch is better, he thinks, for 2022 than Hiura at DH against righties.  This decision is keeping us on the outside of the playoffs right now, much like not giving Aguilar many more at bats in 2017.

 

 

 

I know it is completely hypothetical, but IMO, the lack of more ABs from Keston Hiura is not even close to the biggest reason why this team is not in the driver seat for the playoff spot. I don't even know if it's really a reason at all. He's sucked. He's been a major disappointment since his rookie year. He's certainly not the only one who underperformed offensively this season, and he hasn't sucked as bad as some others, but it is obvious (to me at least) that they are fed up with the constant Ks. He just hasn't progressed. At all. And I think the Brewers are just fed up with him. No matter how pretty you paint a turd, it's still a turd.

[monty57]

2 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I know it is completely hypothetical, but IMO, the lack of more ABs from Keston Hiura is not even close to the biggest reason why this team is not in the driver seat for the playoff spot. I don't even know if it's really a reason at all. He's sucked. He's been a major disappointment since his rookie year. He's certainly not the only one who underperformed offensively this season, and he hasn't sucked as bad as some others, but it is obvious (to me at least) that they are fed up with the constant Ks. He just hasn't progressed. At all. And I think the Brewers are just fed up with him. No matter how pretty you paint a turd, it's still a turd.

Maybe true, but the alternative is a bigger turd. It's just that Hiura is only painted, while McCutchen has a "former MVP" pin stuck to his chest so he gets noticed.

I've given up on this argument for 2022. For whatever reason, Hiura is not going to get regular PAs and McCutchen is. I'm just interested in what they're going to do next year. If Hiura isn't playing over McCutchen this year, then I can't imagine the plan for next year is to pencil him in as a regular. 

I doubt he'll have a lot of value, but whatever value is there, trade him and clear the roster space for someone that the team will use. I don't normally pay much attention to guys who are no longer Brewers, but it would be interesting to see him go to a team that will give him regular playing time, if only to see which side of this debate turns out to be right.

[Robocaller]

When they pinch hit Rowdy for Hiura yesterday, although he had walked and doubled, and the pitcher was a RH, against which Hiura has done best, might have convinced me that CC (at least) doesn't want Keston on the team.

I'd be pissed if I were him.

 

[NBBrewFan]

41 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

When they pinch hit Rowdy for Hiura yesterday, although he had walked and doubled, and the pitcher was a RH, against which Hiura has done best, might have convinced me that CC (at least) doesn't want Keston on the team.

I'd be pissed if I were him.

 

Well I am fine if CC took him out because of the baserunning mistake.  The rest of the season CC gets an F grade for how he managed the DH spot.  I just hope if CC is successful running Hiura out of town like he was with Villar that the Brewers just cut him loose instead of giving away another prospect and getting a negative value player back.  Just cut bait and while Villar has been very hot/cold since leaving he's put up about 5 fWAR in 5 seasons.  We just paid $8M to get to a free agent and got 0.4 fWAR so Villar has provided some value.  Maybe if Keston get's out of the doghouse he can at least have a few years of productive baseball somewhere else.

[jerichoholicninja]

Well, Villar couldn't play defense well at any position and outside of one season has been a league average hitter at best. Not sure how he could have been run out of town since he's wasn't very good to begin with. Not to mention he's been dumped by multiple teams since.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

16 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Well, Villar couldn't play defense well at any position and outside of one season has been a league average hitter at best. Not sure how he could have been run out of town since he's wasn't very good to begin with. Not to mention he's been dumped by multiple teams since.

I think that is probably the career arch that Keston is staring at as well, unless he can find a way to cut down on the swing-and-miss tendencies in favor of a line-drive, higher contact swing. Villar keeps getting opportunities because that raw talent is tantalizing. He simply plateaued as a young-ish player, I suspect due to an inability to make adjustments and adapt to coaching.

[UpandIn]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:22 PM, rickh150 said:

Also, I tire of the reasoning that since CC decided it, it must be the right decision. He makes mistakes too, and it is ok to question this. He should have a good excuse for not playing a better hitting option at DH in a select situation, but he doesn’t. At least not a sane one.  Cutch is better, he thinks, for 2022 than Hiura at DH against righties.  This decision is keeping us on the outside of the playoffs right now, much like not giving Aguilar many more at bats in 2017.

I'm a huge CC fan and think he's an underrated Manager and THIS definitely drives me nuts.

If he would have started Kotsay in CF, that decision would have been defended!

I'm not you can break down this season to Hiura not playing, but...it is kinda baffling how he is PH for despite clearly being the better option. And I don't wanna hear how it's because he got hit by the ball. That's a fluke play and really not his fault.

 

Also...apropo of nothing(well...something) but if you ARE going to bench Hiura for "bad baserunning," then could you MAYBE say something to almost literally anyone else on the team for just not showing effort at times? How many times has the ball bounced 3-4 feet away on a 3rd strike, nobody on 1st and nobody even runs? Or just jogging on ground balls. Again, get this isn't little league, but that's not hard to do. This one's been annoying me for a while, but I don't wanna sound like an old man complaining about it, but IF that was the reason Hiura was taken out, poor decision making/base running...then really everyone but Mitchell...Taylor and maybe Willy should have been benched at some point this year. 

[UpandIn]

30 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Well, Villar couldn't play defense well at any position and outside of one season has been a league average hitter at best. Not sure how he could have been run out of town since he's wasn't very good to begin with. Not to mention he's been dumped by multiple teams since.

The way I remember it, Villar had a great year(at least relative to expectations on a rebuilding team)...but did some stupid things which you could live with when his OBP was over .350, then the Brewers got better quicker than anyone thought and Villar was struggling to keep his OBP above .300 and the Brewers had a chance to upgrade 2B.

I don't really see any correlations between the two. Villar was replaced in 2017 for two guys with OBP near .400 and the following year for Shaw and Schoop. I do not see how he was run out of town. He kinda ran himself out. 

Two totally different situations. Villar lost playing time to just much better player. Hiura keeps losing it and getting PH for in situations where he's the better option. 

 

[rickh150]

Bringing this thread back up again because CC still batting Adames high in order like he is our best hitter…. .208 avg., .676 OPS.  And just overall a terrible approach, swinging from his heals and it is no surprise he was the one hit in the head by a foul ball.

Also, I can’t resist. Hiura has the best numbers by far in the entire system. I know he is hurt and all, but I am going to start banging this drum again…. Well tapping it quietly. Get him back up here when available so that he can hit better than most while striking out half the time. The Brewers offense is in need of a underachiever like Hiura.

Anyone hear when he is expected back? It was supposed to be late June a few weeks ago.

[rickh150]

And again a .289 OBP to match the title.

[brewcrewdue80]

13 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Bringing this thread back up again because CC still batting Adames high in order like he is our best hitter…. .208 avg., .676 OPS.  And just overall a terrible approach, swinging from his heals and it is no surprise he was the one hit in the head by a foul ball.

Also, I can’t resist. Hiura has the best numbers by far in the entire system. I know he is hurt and all, but I am going to start banging this drum again…. Well tapping it quietly. Get him back up here when available so that he can hit better than most while striking out half the time. The Brewers offense is in need of a underachiever like Hiura.

Anyone hear when he is expected back? It was supposed to be late June a few weeks ago.

Adames actually had a 1 pt. worse OPS than Turang had for month of May. By my numbers he's at 400 OPS thus far in June even worse.  There's no SS you're putting in for Adames right now that you may get 700 OPS from within the 40man.  As Turang weakened after his nice start, Adames followed a couple weeks later. No competition, the position is his. Maybe tanking to get traded if internally a contract extension talk soured him. Adames still has next season before FA. All it takes is good one to return his value and a team 1 off a bad cpl months in 23.

 

[Team Canada]

14 hours ago, rickh150 said:

it is no surprise he was the one hit in the head by a foul ball.

What's that supposed to mean?
I agree Adames doesn't belong near the top of the lineup.

[rickh150]

9 hours ago, Team Canada said:

What's that supposed to mean?
I agree Adames doesn't belong near the top of the lineup.

He’s hanging out of the dugout often… careless like his swing. Maybe too harsh, sure.

[rickh150]

Bring him up… 

[Brewcrew82]

6 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Bring him up… 

Relax. They've got to give him AAA at-bats just like in any rehab assignment. 

[rickh150]

Hiura hits .866 against RHP and it’s all about him striking out too much or how he cannot play defense. Just put him at DH and hit him low in lineup. Fairly sure he can strike out 50% of the time and hit 200 points better than our current DH OPS numbers .561… I fully expect him and Frelick to hit in the middle of the lineup come August and September. Are they so great? No. Just a low bar in our organization.

And, of course again, I’d like to again point out Hiura, his warts and all, had a better OPS than Adames, our #2 or #3 hitter,last year. And Hiura has a .331 avg, 12 HR in 112 AB, 1.074 OPS this year in AAA. Just let this guy play DH everyday low in order for a month and give this guy some confidence. Jerked around constantly by organization.

[rickh150]

38 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Relax. They've got to give him AAA at-bats just like in any rehab assignment. 

And then bring him up, correct? —-Team DH OPS is .561

[Brewcrew82]

23 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

And then bring him up, correct? —-Team DH OPS is .561

We'll see. If he hits like he did before the injury I would be in favor of calling him up. 

[rickh150]

And Adames is MUCH worse this year than last.

To the topic, he is STILL hitting #2 or even #3! But just maybe we call up Hiura? Ha!  

DH OPS .561…..five sixty one!

 

[Baldkin]

What's their DH OPS? Anyone know?

 

 

 

[rickh150]

16 hours ago, Baldkin said:

What's their DH OPS? Anyone know?

 

 

 

For CC and Arnold, DH is a not a place where good bats/bad defenders live. It’s a place where position players get a rest. They like their hitters on the 25 man roster to have some defensive flexibility, it seems. I think this is noticeably costing us  Hiura/Black would be on my shortlist for DH right now.

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

For CC and Arnold, DH is a not a place where good bats/bad defenders live. It’s a place where position players get a rest.

Is it though?

DH plate appearances since 2022…

Cutch (360) Yelich (171) Winker (131) Hiura (96) Tellez (78)

From there it drops down to Renfroe (29) Contreras (28) Voit (26) Ruf (24)

Those are all pretty much bat only players and primary DHs. They just haven’t been delivering.

Cutch, Winker, Hiura, Voit and Ruf account for 637 of the Brewers 997 DH PAs since 2022, so it’s been used much more by primary DHs than it has been to rotate position players for a rest.

 

[Lathund]

I think his point is more that it *should* be a rotational spot, and not a place for sluggers who literally can't play the field. If you're gonna have a dedicated DH it better be someone like Ortiz or Alvarez (though he plays the field now) or rehabbing Harper. I'd much rather give Contreras some more DH time, give some off days to Yelich and others etc, rather than carry a dedicated DH *and* a guy like Rowdy. I was fine with the Winker gamble, he put up a 108 wRC+ in a season where he was clearly struggling with injury. Worth a shot if you thought he'd be healthier. But he just looks cooked. Can't make decent contact, and strikes out 10% more than his career rate. Time to try something else.