Josh Hader Traded to the Padres

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

You pretend like Gallo strikes out 100% of the time. He doesn't. He's had numerous All-Star seasons with an OPS over 900, and  had huge K totals in all of them. 

What do all the teams that score more than the Brewers have in common? They have a higher team OPS.

He had one season with an OPS over .900 in 70 games...

Meanwhile, here's the top 20 in OPS this season. Highest K rate among these players is Judge with 25%. Meanwhile, Gallo's K rate is 40%, which, if he qualified, would be the highest K rate in the majors. 

 

[Never Outhustled]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Here's the top 20 in OPS this season. Highest K rate among these players is Judge with 25%. Meanwhile, Gallo's K rate is 40%, which, if he qualified, would be the highest K rate in the majors. 

 

 What's your point? Those are also good players. Were any of those players available to acquire? 

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

 What's your point? Those are also good players. Were any of those players available to acquire? 

The point is that while you can maintain a high OPS with a higher than average K rate, it's almost impossible to do so when you're K'ing as much as Gallo is this season (40%). With the type of prospect we seemingly would have had to give up for him and the fact that our lineup already has an excessive number of high K power hitters, it just wasn't worth the risk from the Brewers standpoint. Oh, and he's also a free agent after the season. 

[Never Outhustled]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

The point is that while you can maintain a high OPS with a higher than normal K rate, it's almost impossible to do so when you're K'ing as much as Gallo is this season. With the type of prospect we seemingly would have had to give up for him and the fact that our lineup already has an excessive number of high K power hitters, it just wasn't worth the risk from the Brewers standpoint. Oh, and he's also a free agent after the season. 

The problem the Brewers have is their team OPS isn't high enough. I believe Gallo would help raise it in place of Jonathon Davis. We have up a quality prospect for a guy who doesn't even play baseball. I'd have given up a prospect for Gallo.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Never Outhustled said:

The problem the Brewers have is their team OPS isn't high enough. I believe Gallo would help raise it in place of Jonathon Davis. We have up a quality prospect for a guy who doesn't even play baseball. I'd have given up a prospect for Gallo.

Again, there's a huge difference between giving up a Tristan Peters and a Black, Gasser, Mitchell, Turang, etc. Plus, we can solve the Jonathan Davis conundrum by replacing him with Frelick, and we don't have to give up any prospects to do so. 

[Never Outhustled]

3 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Again, there's a huge difference between giving up a Tristan Peters and a Black, Gasser, Mitchell, Turang, etc. Plus, we can solve the Jonathan Davis conundrum by replacing him with Frelick, and we don't have to give up any prospects to do so. 

Beeter isn't on the level of Mitchell or Turang. I'd been fine with Black, he's doesn't look athletic enough to stick in the infield, and that makes him a very ho hum prospect. 

 

They won't call up Frelick because Stearns needs to maintain extra 40 man spots for no hit utility infielders and 4th string catchers.

Frelick would be fun. 

[Never Outhustled]

Acquiring injured Taylor Rogers wasn't the smartest move. 

[UpandIn]

4 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

Would've loved Gallo.

 

Great change of scenery candidate.

How many times does he have to change scenery? He's hit under 200 the last 3 years and he changed scenery's right in the middle of that. I really would have thought after the last couple years, the last thing people would have wanted would be a .187 OFer.

I feel pretty confident in saying we could get something close to that from Joey Weimer right now. 

[UpandIn]

2 hours ago, Never Outhustled said:

Beeter isn't on the level of Mitchell or Turang. I'd been fine with Black, he's doesn't look athletic enough to stick in the infield, and that makes him a very ho hum prospect. 

 

They won't call up Frelick because Stearns needs to maintain extra 40 man spots for no hit utility infielders and 4th string catchers.

Frelick would be fun. 

They're literally both 50's. That's the same level. Turang and Black. 

 

And he's not athletic enough to stick in the OF? How? Based on what? He MAY not be able to play 3rd base because of a shoulder injury, but he's plenty athletic enough to stick at 2nd. 

Again, this is the Gallo from the Yankees, right? Previously the Rangers? The guy hitting .187? 

I'll argue for Hiura to get at bats now because he's on our team, came up in our system and it costs us nothing to do so, but I'm not seeking out guys hitting ~.180 and trading away one of the the best pure hitters we've had in the system in the past couple years for a few months of him. 

[StearnsFTW]

31 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

How many times does he have to change scenery? He's hit under 200 the last 3 years and he changed scenery's right in the middle of that. I really would have thought after the last couple years, the last thing people would have wanted would be a .187 OFer.

I feel pretty confident in saying we could get something close to that from Joey Weimer right now. 

Who cares what his BA is?

 

He sucked in New York.  He was really good in Texas right up until the trade going back to 2017 (except the covid year, he was bad that season. 

 And we could use a LHH CF.

[UpandIn]

1 minute ago, StearnsFTW said:

Who cares what his BA is?

 

He sucked in New York.  He was really good in Texas right up until the trade going back to 2017 (except the covid year, he was bad that season. 

 And we could use a LHH CF.

Me. I care what his BA is or I wouldn't have mentioned it. 

For all this, "it doesn't matter HOW you make an out," kinda does. I'll take the .300/.400 hitter over the .200/.400 hitter every day. I don't rank hitters by BA. I don't think it's the most important stat. But pretty hard to find a good hitter who is hitting .159(At the time of the trade).

Gallo's also NOT a CFer. He's played like 6 innings in CF the last 3 years...while the Yanks were throwing Aaron Judge out there in CF. So it's not like they had Willie Mays patrolling the OF and just moved him over. 

He's played ~50 game out there for his career. 

I wasn't a huge fan of the deadline, but wow...if we'd have traded Tyler Black for Joey Gallo to come in and play CF....then I may be buying into the theory that Stearns is 'James Hardening' his way out of Milwaukee.

Maybe if the Yanks just wanted to kinda give him away, fine. But they didn't. They got back a really good prospect in return. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Saw someone mention Stearns being deserving of a mulligan if this trade deadline and aftermath continue on the current trajectory. Which is fair except last year's deadline deals were failures as well. Hard to give Stearns a pass when two years of Burnes and Woodruff look to be utterly wasted. Two straight years of using the deadline strictly for bullpen arms and then watching as the bullpen gets worse than before the deals were made. 

[UpandIn]

7 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Saw someone mention Stearns being deserving of a mulligan if this trade deadline and aftermath continue on the current trajectory. Which is fair except last year's deadline deals were failures as well. Hard to give Stearns a pass when two years of Burnes and Woodruff look to be utterly wasted. Two straight years of using the deadline strictly for bullpen arms and then watching as the bullpen gets worse than before the deals were made. 

I could rationalize the whole deadline if Lamet isn't DFA'd after giving up Peters for Rosenthal. 

Maybe not agree with everything...but I could understand all the moves. That one...seems like you just gave up on a pitcher who could have been a huge contributor instead of Jake McGee or Suter or whoever. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

A lot of the hitters that were dealt at the deadline were IMO guys who would've commanded a lower price (in prospect capital) in past years. But offense is scarce enough right now that the prices went up.

With all the warts he has I would've taken a flier on Gallo had he come cheaply. But Black? Absolutely no way.

[Axman59]

Joey Gallo is the type of player the Dodgers can toss away a prospect for. They have plenty more where that one came from. The Brewers do not. Stearns was wise to let Gallo get away.

Now about Trevor Rosenthal...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

6 hours ago, Axman59 said:

Now about Trevor Rosenthal...

We'll see. All the signs this week are pointing to him contributing soon. It was a ballsy move that has significant backfire potential for sure.

[UpandIn]

4 hours ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

A lot of the hitters that were dealt at the deadline were IMO guys who would've commanded a lower price (in prospect capital) in past years. But offense is scarce enough right now that the prices went up.

With all the warts he has I would've taken a flier on Gallo had he come cheaply. But Black? Absolutely no way.

I think it's easier to say without Black playing much...but people forget, just a year ago he was a 1st round pick with a great hit tool and the quickness and athletic ability to play middle IF and the glove to play 3B(though questions about arm strength). 

Things have just swung WAAAY too far the other way. I remember arguing with Brewers fans about Rickie Weeks when he was a ~.240 with a .345-.375 OBP and people did not like Weeks. BA, it's overrated. He's getting on base, you can live with .240. Especially as he's hitting for power. 

NOW we're justifying .159 and citing his slash line in about 15 PAs post trade?

Sorry, but things are going a little bit too far the other way. 

[StearnsFTW]

16 hours ago, UpandIn said:

Me. I care what his BA is or I wouldn't have mentioned it. 

For all this, "it doesn't matter HOW you make an out," kinda does. I'll take the .300/.400 hitter over the .200/.400 hitter every day. I don't rank hitters by BA. I don't think it's the most important stat. But pretty hard to find a good hitter who is hitting .159(At the time of the trade).

Gallo's also NOT a CFer. He's played like 6 innings in CF the last 3 years...while the Yanks were throwing Aaron Judge out there in CF. So it's not like they had Willie Mays patrolling the OF and just moved him over. 

He's played ~50 game out there for his career. 

I wasn't a huge fan of the deadline, but wow...if we'd have traded Tyler Black for Joey Gallo to come in and play CF....then I may be buying into the theory that Stearns is 'James Hardening' his way out of Milwaukee.

Maybe if the Yanks just wanted to kinda give him away, fine. But they didn't. They got back a really good prospect in return. 

Ok, well batting average is a pretty meaningless stat. 

 

And he was excellent in CF for 400 innings, no reason not to play him there.  I can't explain why he wasn't playing CF instead of Judge.  Nagging injury?  Poor analysis? 

 

I wouldn't have given a top 10 guy either, so this is probably moot like you said, but I sure would've been happy if we could've gotten him for, say, Small.

[KeithStone53151]

35 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

Ok, well batting average is a pretty meaningless stat. 

 

And he was excellent in CF for 400 innings, no reason not to play him there.  I can't explain why he wasn't playing CF instead of Judge.  Nagging injury?  Poor analysis? 

 

I wouldn't have given a top 10 guy either, so this is probably moot like you said, but I sure would've been happy if we could've gotten him for, say, Small.

Batting average is far from a meaningless stat. It certainly isn't as useful as some more all encompassing stats, but a 159 avg is bad unless every hit is a hr. Also, a single is much more valuable than a walk.

[StearnsFTW]

1 hour ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Batting average is far from a meaningless stat. It certainly isn't as useful as some more all encompassing stats, but a 159 avg is bad unless every hit is a hr. Also, a single is much more valuable than a walk.

Dont' really agree on BA having much meaning. 

 

I could see Gallo giving 1-2 WAR the rest of the season if he were playing every day (under the hypothetical scenario where he ended up here instead of LA).  I would've been thrilled to get him.

 

[monty57]

1 hour ago, StearnsFTW said:

Dont' really agree on BA having much meaning. 

 

That's like saying addition doesn't have much meaning because there are more complex mathematical equations. Without addition, you can't do the more complex equations.

Getting a hit is the most fundamental part of baseball. Batting average is very important, as it is the base from which all other statistical data can be formed. It is not all-encompassing, and there are other things that are more inclusive, but that does not mean that batting average isn't important. 

[Thurston Fluff]

22 minutes ago, monty57 said:

That's like saying addition doesn't have much meaning because there are more complex mathematical equations. Without addition, you can't do the more complex equations.

Getting a hit is the most fundamental part of baseball. Batting average is very important, as it is the base from which all other statistical data can be formed. It is not all-encompassing, and there are other things that are more inclusive, but that does not mean that batting average isn't important. 

I'd add that batting average has more meaning now than in it did even a few years ago. Batting for average is a sign of good contact ability which I'd argue is something lost along the way when people stopped valuing it. I also think some of the benefits of shifts is because there are fewer batters who can get a hit based on where the ball is pitched to contend with. That's a skill that shows up somewhat better in batting average than OBP.

[wibadgers23]

I still have no clue what is going on with CF here.  They traded Hader for a guy in who Ruiz who they obviously really like, already has big league experience and plays a position of need.  Instead of inserting him in right away, they send him down to AAA in lieu of Jonathan Davis, who rarely sees the field.  What am I missing here?

[rickh150]

12 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

I still have no clue what is going on with CF here.  They traded Hader for a guy in who Ruiz who they obviously really like, already has big league experience and plays a position of need.  Instead of inserting him in right away, they send him down to AAA in lieu of Jonathan Davis, who rarely sees the field.  What am I missing here?

AND they bring up others to AAA to play OF and squeeze Ruiz out of ABs. Preferring Suter over Lamet also has no defense. Awful decision making at the deadline.

Well, they have two great moves or desperation moves left if they want.
1. Bringing up Frelick…. I assume that is coming Sept 1. I actually would be surprised if he is not called up sooner. Really, what are they waiting for? Davis plays really good D, but we need a spark on offense. Maybe Frelick can do just that.

2. Playing Hiura, especially against righties, seems like a no brainer. We are losing these close ballgames with Hiura on the bench against a bunch of righties. Visions of letting Roy Hobbs on the bench… Stubborn Counsell….. visions of sitting Aguilar in 2017 that cost us at least a game and the playoffs.
 

[wntrtxn21]

42 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

AND they bring up others to AAA to play OF and squeeze Ruiz out of ABs. Preferring Suter over Lamet also has no defense. Awful decision making at the deadline.

Well, they have two great moves or desperation moves left if they want.
1. Bringing up Frelick…. I assume that is coming Sept 1. I actually would be surprised if he is not called up sooner. Really, what are they waiting for? Davis plays really good D, but we need a spark on offense. Maybe Frelick can do just that.

2. Playing Hiura, especially against righties, seems like a no brainer. We are losing these close ballgames with Hiura on the bench against a bunch of righties. Visions of letting Roy Hobbs on the bench… Stubborn Counsell….. visions of sitting Aguilar in 2017 that cost us at least a game and the playoffs.
 

McCutchon has been hot (10/37 in Aug). Put him in CF and let Hiura be the DH against RH. I think he could be the spark. Taylor can go in CF sending Cutch to LF in the later innings.