Brewers Designate Dinelson Lamet, Pedro Severino For Assignment

[MVP2110]

12 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Also, IF the tweet i saw yesterday is accurate that the Brewers wouldn't include Weimer in a Soto deal, then Stearns needs to pack his bags. That is absolutely inexcusable.

 

That was from a parody account. It wasn't true

[Oxy]

7 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

I really miss Doug Melvin. he was the "epitome" of going for it, and be rest assured, with the pitching staff they have now, and Melvin as GM, they wouldn't be making paltry little deals like they have been at the deadline. They would have been one of the big winners at the deadline the last couple years at least. 

LOL.  I actually like Melvin too (more than most in BF past, anyway), but Stearns is light-years better than old Dougie. As others have stated, why is "the deadline" important?  Stearns has proven to make great deals and signings throughout the year. Adames, Urias, Lauer, Renfroe, Yelich, Tellez, Narvaez, Caratini....pretty much the entire team is here because of his moves, and this team should make the playoffs for the 5th straight year.

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Everyone talking about how Hader's value isn't what we all think it is must forget the Yankees got Gleyber Torres for a RENTAL Arlodis Chapman. If "this" was the package Stearns was in love with, his evaluation skills are lacking. To trade the best reliever in the game and not get AT least one of Hassell or Campusano is a total disservice. You don't get one of them, fine, don't trade Josh now then. Wait until the off season. You could have gotten at least as much then.

Also, IF the tweet i saw yesterday is accurate that the Brewers wouldn't include Weimer in a Soto deal, then Stearns needs to pack his bags. That is absolutely inexcusable. 

This is what I mean, Stearns has no "bad ass" in him. He's too nice. He lets teams include players to even out salary without getting more back, and doesn't DEMAND more of a package then what they got. "Pay my price or we don't trade him" Simple as that. 

I really miss Doug Melvin. he was the "epitome" of going for it, and be rest assured, with the pitching staff they have now, and Melvin as GM, they wouldn't be making paltry little deals like they have been at the deadline. They would have been one of the big winners at the deadline the last couple years at least. 

 

The Aroldis Chapman return will almost certainly never be replicated in the history of this game. That was exclusively a one time deal. So, we were never getting Hassell, who was the key part of the Juan Soto deal. Juan Soto's value eclipses Hader's by an almost infinite degree. 

And the tweet you are referring to was completely made up. There is no indication that the Brewers were ever in on Soto, nor should they have been with what he eventually went for. We will always need a farm system, and trading for Soto would have completely emptied ours, not to mention taking guys like Ashby off the MLB roster.

You say you miss Doug Melvin... Well, have you even bothered to compare their two records? 4 (potentially 5) playoff appearances, including game 7 of the 2018 NLCS vs. 2 playoff appearances, including several woeful seasons....

[rickh150]

Lamet.. Either oversight of the 5th year option

OR

the Bush trade was considered better value.

 

[Eye Black]

The Lamet thing is annoying, and makes the front office appear a little foolish. I get that it was a bit of a salary dump from the Padres end, but at least have a plan for incorporating a player that Counsell literally said this about yesterday: "I think you ask any hitter and anybody that's been on the sidelines watching him pitch when he's been good and it’s the best slider in baseball," 

[tonyei31]

The only issue here is 'how it looks'.  Lamet was included in the deal for financial reasons to get the prospects we really wanted.  I believe  taking on Lamet was likely the difference between Gasser (who Stearns obviously covets) and another prospect he wasn't as keen on.  He can't help that later on in the evening the Rangers basically gave us a Cost controlled reliever for another 2 years for a High Walk flamethrower flier (guys like Kelly's failure rates far exceed success rates at the MLB level.).  Obviously the plan was to keep Lamet on the roster for a true look but getting Bush changed that later on in the day.   I don't find this move puzzling but I do start to wonder if we truly didn't get enough in the package for Hader.    

[SomewhereInTime]

So they really couldn't possibly drop Jake McGee from the active roster to make room for Lamet?

[PeaveyFury]

2 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Lamet is costing them what, 1.7 mil REGARDLESS if he plays here or not! Cutting him did what for us? We are on the hook for this money.

 

This isn’t entirely true at this point. He’ll be placed on waivers, and if someone else claims him, they pick up the salary. Very possible this is the major reason for the move today- to see if anyone likes him enough to take the salary.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

This was not a mistake, but the plan all along.  Lamet has a $4.775M salary and as a result had negative value.  The baseball trade values simulator even showed that.  He was included to balance out the salaries.

I believe the intent is for the Brewers to put him on outright waivers and have another team claim.  They then will have to pick up the remainder of his salary.  I think that is why Stearns did this now.  He wants to shed that salary.  I can accept this even though I am a big Lamet fan.

The problem I have is that he traded for Rosenthal and picked up that full salary ($4.5M).  So it seems Stearns chose to dump Lamet for the chance of Rosenthal in Sept (plus losing T. Peters).  That seems stupid.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Seems odd the Brewers could not have traded Severino prior to the trade deadline for at least something.  He was only owed ~40% of $1.9M.  Seems like a lottery ticket for him would have been better than this.  If he does get waived and is not claimed, Severino could be sent to AAA.  He has 4 years of ML service time, so he can refuse an outright assignment but would forfeit his remaining salary.  Not like Lamet who can refuse and gets to keep the rest of his salary since he has 5 years of ML service time.

[wntrtxn21]

So for one of the best relievers in baseball, Stearns gets a guy he immediately DFA'd, a struggling reliever who was removed from his late inning job and who will probably be gone in 2023, a prospect whose ceiling is a #5 or swing man, and a prospect who wasn't in S.D. top 20.  Then to add to his fiasco he pays for a guy who hasn't pitched in two years and may not pitch this year and will be a FA next year.  His "best" move  was getting a 36 year old with a questionable past.  This can only be described as a Stearns' sh*t show. The Padres not only took his lunch money, they took his shirt, pants, and shoes too. 

 

[Devinep]

So taking Lamet was a favor to SD? As if what they got for Hader wasn’t already a gift? SMH

[UpandIn]

3 hours ago, monty57 said:

We received “assets” as well. I think you are greatly overvaluing Hader specifically, and relief pitchers in general. Plus, you are glossing over the fact that we received Rogers, who over the course of his career is only 0.31 WAR/season behind Hader. He’s really good, and we don’t have to pay him this year because the Twins are covering his salary (money has value too). I’d take a free Rogers over a $10M Hader any day of the week. 
 

Hader is going to get something like $15M next year in Abby, so he gets very little “surplus value” for his final year. After what Ruiz and Gasser did this year, if they were in our system already, people would be calling them untouchable. Any prospect has risk, but I think we got pretty good value for one season of a relief pitcher. Will everyone who dislikes this trade feel better if Ruiz and Gasser are in some reporters’ Top Prospect lists to start next year? I guess time will tell. 

I'm curious why people are rather dismissive of Kelly, but based on what the older Gasser did this year, we'd be calling him untouchable?

90 IP 115K, .252 BAA, 1.26 Whip, .92 GO/FO ratio

91 IP 126K, .189 BAA, 1.23 Whip, 1.00 GO/FO ratio

Both lefties, both in HiA. Doesn't seem like Brewers fans would be calling Glasser untouchable if he were in our system. Seems like they'd be dismissing him...as many are doing with Kelly at this point(unless we didn't trade him). 

I fully understand if people just want to say, "Stearns has earned all benefits, I don't get it, but I'll blindly trust him." That makes sense to me and I'm not being sarcastic or snide. But it seems like the opinions of the Brewers prospects have changed only because they've been shipped out. 

 

 

[UpandIn]

2 hours ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

This was not a mistake, but the plan all along.  Lamet has a $4.775M salary and as a result had negative value.  The baseball trade values simulator even showed that.  He was included to balance out the salaries.

I believe the intent is for the Brewers to put him on outright waivers and have another team claim.  They then will have to pick up the remainder of his salary.  I think that is why Stearns did this now.  He wants to shed that salary.  I can accept this even though I am a big Lamet fan.

The problem I have is that he traded for Rosenthal and picked up that full salary ($4.5M).  So it seems Stearns chose to dump Lamet for the chance of Rosenthal in Sept (plus losing T. Peters).  That seems stupid.

If this was the plan all along, why did both Stearns and Counsell talk about how great Lamet's stuff is? Why even address what he could do for our team?

It doesn't seem like that was at all the plan all along. It doesn't really seem like there WAS a plan all along. 

[JosephC]

Somewhere on the first page of this thread somebody posted a tweet that indicates that Lamet was included so the Padres could stay under the luxury tax threshold.  After adding Soto, Cots Baseball Contracts has the Padres just 314k over the threshold, and while their calculations have historically been pretty good, it's reasonable to think they may be 500k off and the Padres are barely under the threshold.  So it's perfectly reasonable to think the 1.7 million the Brewers take on with the Lamet contract really does keep the Padres under the threshold.

IMO the bad look is more among the Brewer fans who thought Milwaukee would get an absolute haul for Hader.  Now the package is a rental reliever, 2 prospects who likely rank as back end top 300 prospects (certainly nowhere near top 100), and in order to get that they also have to take on a contract they didn't want.  Not much of a return at all.   

[Oxy]

If lockdown, absolute historically great stud relievers aren't worth very much, then I'd hope Stearns could trade for guys like Seranthony Dominguez, Emmanuel Clase, Jonathan Hernandez and Camilo Doval rather than Matt Bush and Trevor Rosenthal.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

1 hour ago, UpandIn said:

If this was the plan all along, why did both Stearns and Counsell talk about how great Lamet's stuff is? Why even address what he could do for our team?

It doesn't seem like that was at all the plan all along. It doesn't really seem like there WAS a plan all along. 

What do you expect them to say, "He's garbage. We plan to cut him tomorrow."  They are of course going to talk him up a bit. 

[rickh150]

3 hours ago, tonyei31 said:

The only issue here is 'how it looks'.  Lamet was included in the deal for financial reasons to get the prospects we really wanted.  I believe  taking on Lamet was likely the difference between Gasser (who Stearns obviously covets) and another prospect he wasn't as keen on.  He can't help that later on in the evening the Rangers basically gave us a Cost controlled reliever for another 2 years for a High Walk flamethrower flier (guys like Kelly's failure rates far exceed success rates at the MLB level.).  Obviously the plan was to keep Lamet on the roster for a true look but getting Bush changed that later on in the day.   I don't find this move puzzling but I do start to wonder if we truly didn't get enough in the package for Hader.    

It is still puzzling! Of course, it is.

Lamet sounds like an easy decision to keep in the pen. Move Milner down or cut Suter. McGee?  Really baffling to trade for, plan on having him, brag him up to defend Hader trade, and then get rid of him the next day. And pay SD to take him. And give a supposedly good pitcher away for nothing, 

Mlbtraderumors says that if no one picks up Lamet, he can refuse being sent to Nashville because he has five years of service time. He would get his entire contract as FA. No need to even be sent down to get $. 
 

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, UpandIn said:

I'm curious why people are rather dismissive of Kelly, but based on what the older Gasser did this year, we'd be calling him untouchable?

90 IP 115K, .252 BAA, 1.26 Whip, .92 GO/FO ratio

91 IP 126K, .189 BAA, 1.23 Whip, 1.00 GO/FO ratio

Both lefties, both in HiA. Doesn't seem like Brewers fans would be calling Glasser untouchable if he were in our system. Seems like they'd be dismissing him...as many are doing with Kelly at this point(unless we didn't trade him). 

I fully understand if people just want to say, "Stearns has earned all benefits, I don't get it, but I'll blindly trust him." That makes sense to me and I'm not being sarcastic or snide. But it seems like the opinions of the Brewers prospects have changed only because they've been shipped out. 

 

 

Gasser was drafted in 2021, Kelly in 2019.  Gasser has improved his stuff and has remained healthy to date, always shown polish and the only question on him provided he stays healthy is if he profiles as a mid or back of the rotation starter.  Kelly had a significant shoulder surgery and hasn't developed nearly enough to be considered a starting pitcher prospect anymore - his path to MLB is in the pen and his questionable command in high A shows he still has a long ways to go to get there.

Gasser is older by ~1 year, but from a development standpoint he is much more advanced as a pitcher and a prospect than Kelly.

When you look at the pitching prospects Stearns has shipped out via trade over the past few years, which one stands out as a guy he really messed up trading thus far?

[patrickgpe]

5 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

I’m a tad embarrassed … all my friends know of my love for the Brewers … I have no answers for basic questions … these whacky decisions are indefensible 

There are 5-7 guys on the 40-man roster I would DFA over Lamet … I’m completely stunned by the Rosenthal trade & the Lamet DFA 

I do understand the Severino decision … I honestly believe the Brewers tried to trade Narvaez & couldn’t get what they wanted so they “finally” dropped Severino

Not our best week … especially with Burnes losing to the hapless Pirates & Hader getting the victory last night on a Grisham walkoff HR

I agree there are guys I would DFA over Lament. I understand that there was a roster crunch after getting bush. I won’t argue that DFA‘ing Gustave, Perdomo or Strzelecki would make more sense for the 40, but they aren’t on the 26. I guess you could have DFA’d McGee or Suter and nobody would have thought for a second on that. There would be your 5. 

[UpandIn]

39 minutes ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

What do you expect them to say, "He's garbage. We plan to cut him tomorrow."  They are of course going to talk him up a bit. 

Yup, the only two options were to talk about how he fits in your team, how talented he is and "he's garbage. We plan to cut him tomorrow."

 

But actually...yeah, I DID expect them to say they were going to DFA him rather than praise him if this was all part of the plan. 

[SRB]

Am I correct that if they tried to option him and he rejected it, he would be a free agent with the Brewers on the hook for his salary, but if they DFA him and he gets claimed on waivers another team pays his salary?

I assume that's the logic here. And there isn't an obvious spot on the major league bullpen at the moment (even before Rosenthal is ready).

This clearly does make the Hader trade worse though, because it proves that the front office doesn't think they can fix Lamet or that they were acquiring an undervalued asset.

[UpandIn]

39 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Gasser was drafted in 2021, Kelly in 2019.  Gasser has improved his stuff and has remained healthy to date, always shown polish and the only question on him provided he stays healthy is if he profiles as a mid or back of the rotation starter.  Kelly had a significant shoulder surgery and hasn't developed nearly enough to be considered a starting pitcher prospect anymore - his path to MLB is in the pen and his questionable command in high A shows he still has a long ways to go to get there.

Gasser is older by ~1 year, but from a development standpoint he is much more advanced as a pitcher and a prospect than Kelly.

When you look at the pitching prospects Stearns has shipped out via trade over the past few years, which one stands out as a guy he really messed up trading thus far?

So drafted in 2019...pitches well in an obviously small sample size.

2020-Covid, lost season, apparently impressed at the Alternate Training Site.

2021-Thoracic outlet surgery...a much more common surgery now with a much higher recovery rate. Not really "shoulder," surgery...in the traditional sense with pitchers. Nothing like Jimmy Nelson or a rotator cuff. Much higher recovery rate...and...he recovered from it. Came back throwing in the upper 90s again this year, slider was elite. So hard to see THAT particular injury being a real factor after he's fully recovered from it.

 

But...ok, Glasser is more advanced. That's a pretty small margin as Kelly was just far more dominant at the same level after coming back from, again, the Covid year and the TOS. Surely you'd agree that Kelly has far more upside, no?

As for when has Stearns done X, as I said, if you just want to say, you blindly trust Stearns...fine. If it's just trusting Stearns, ok. I don't believe Brewers fans 3 days ago would have argued for Glasser over Kelly as they are now. Kelly has performed similarly to Ashby, similar stuff(upper 90s, plus slider, command needs to improve). 

Higher floor, lower ceiling pitcher at the same level performing worse?

 

 

[Axman59]

If he's going to be claimed on waivers (and thus have his contract picked up by another team) why didn't the Padres simply waive/release him instead of foisting him on the Brewers?

[JesseG53]

So the Brewers decided, at the trade deadline being a 90 percent chance to make the playoffs and had a division lead with the possibility of going into any playoff series with 

Burnes - Woody - Peralta 

Williams - Hader 

Decided to sell? 

One of the only possible reasons I can think of (and let me adjust my tin foil hat as I say this) is that things got so bad between Hader and the Brewers behind closed doors that it simply was never gonna work out between the two sides. I know Hader wanted to spend time with his kid but maybe he simply told the Brewers “I’m done with this organization, I’m not representing them in the All Star game. Trade me as soon as possible”.