Brewers Designate Dinelson Lamet, Pedro Severino For Assignment

[Jopal78]

Just now, monty57 said:

Yeah, teams might get a bit upset if one of their scouts made their reports public. 

Exactly! Scouts likely share info with journalists such as a players breaking pitches are major league caliber or another player’s swing is too long.
Scouts would not share “I think player A is the best one they have followed closely by Player B and then C.”

[True Blue Brew Crew]

25 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Scouts don’t put together prospect ranking. Those are made by journalists and  website content creators.

Of course they do, not all individual scouts are going to necessarily keep a running list but organizations rank players all the time and as monty pointed out, it doesn't go public. Scouts sure as heck check age, playing environment, sample, and a whole host of other metrics, before daring to run to management with massive hype over a prospect's recent stats.

[folly412]

I'm more eager to see what Reetz can do.  If Omar is out a couple weeks and with roster expansion, he's in line to get a fair audition for next year.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

The nature of the trade deadline necessitates an organization and it's scouts ranking the prospects of the team who is interested in their major league talent. Often GMs are given lists of players to choose from, as talks intensify, even multiple groupings of players to choose one from each group. Then the scouts chime in with where they have the grouped players ranked amongst one another. It happens literally all the time.

[SoCalBrewfan]

We all like to pretend we know a lot about the minors, etc., but most of us are relying on reports filtered through several sources.  Teams have a vested interest in inflating value of their prospects and keeping cards close to the vest.  

You see fans, say, who get crazy because the Brewers pick a guy at 27 who was ranked 68 by MLB.com.  As though the publicly available ranking is the truth, and the team is a bunch of keystone cops who can't shoot straight.  Heck, the Brewers third rounder was not rated.  But if anyone's information is lacking, it's likely to be the media...on draft day they admitted as much, saying they don't know as much as the teams.  

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I'll also add that the Brewers sure as heck rank their own when it comes time to offer up minor league talent in group tiers when targeting a major league player via trade. Most well known example was the CC Sabathia trade.

I can only speculate but if the Brewers were actively in trade discussions today with another team and offering up a package of minor leaguers, they'd have Chourio, Frelick, Mitchell, Turang, Wiemer, and Quero at minimum above Ruiz. And I think there's a good chance they'd have Black and Small above him as well. Reading between the lines it even sounds like Gasser was the priority guy between he and Ruiz in the Hader deal so I'd venture he's above Esteury too.

I think the dirty secret and most overlooked aspect of the Hader trade was that they had no intention of ever paying his final arbitration year, other teams realized it, and the prospect haul was going to be underwhelming at this point. Especially when taking back said trading partner's current major league closer (Rogers) as part of the deal.

Edit: And I think fans' expectations of this massive haul for Hader is directly leading to an overvaluation of the prospects received. It's hard for people to accept that the prospect return for Hader was 2 guys who weren't universally hailed as can't miss or near can't miss guys.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

17 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

And I think fans' expectations of this massive haul for Hader is directly leading to an overvaluation of the prospects received. It's hard for people to accept that the prospect return for Hader was 2 guys who weren't universally hailed as can't miss or near can't miss guys.

That is an extremely good point. I personally am high on these guys not simply because they are good prospects, but because the Brewers traded the finest relief pitcher in the game to get them, and I want this team to have success. I get why a team in the Brewers' situation has to trade stars away, but they can't afford to miss on the return and still remain competitive long term.

[jay87shot]

If we knew we were just going to cut Lamet loose, why didn't we get Hosmer instead. The Pads paid 44 million of his future salary.

[Outlander]

21 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

At least we don’t have his salary on our books any more 

As a business it makes the trade better for them but as a fan it means nothing. It isn't like they can go and trade for somebody to improve the team this year.

[MVP2110]

2 hours ago, jay87shot said:

If we knew we were just going to cut Lamet loose, why didn't we get Hosmer instead. The Pads paid 44 million of his future salary.

Because Hosmer sucks offensively. 

[brewcrewdue80]

On a Ruiz top 100 prospect thought.  The read on him is-was he was poor at 2b with heavy hands(guessing that would mean dropped balls and slow throwing action?)  They moved him to OF. Breakout year with bat. Does he grade out defensively? Arm strength? If heavy hands meant dropped balls...well is that continuing in OF?  Does he possess power mold for the position he'll play? Since he's not younger his rise is sorta past the stage you want to gleam about him for lists. He should be added to ML games soon and that addition may not even last til next list. Just say he's close but you'd rather list so and so since they were recently drafted.

[Robocaller]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:49 PM, True Blue Brew Crew said:

I can only speculate but if the Brewers were actively in trade discussions today with another team and offering up a package of minor leaguers, they'd have Chourio, Frelick, Mitchell, Turang, Wiemer, and Quero at minimum above Ruiz. And I think there's a good chance they'd have Black and Small above him as well. Reading between the lines it even sounds like Gasser was the priority guy between he and Ruiz in the Hader deal so I'd venture he's above Esteury too.

I really hope that the professional scouts that work for the team have a greatly different assessment than you do.

[Robocaller]

39 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

On a Ruiz top 100 prospect thought.  The read on him is-was he was poor at 2b with heavy hands(guessing that would mean dropped balls and slow throwing action?)  They moved him to OF. Breakout year with bat. Does he grade out defensively? Arm strength? If heavy hands meant dropped balls...well is that continuing in OF?  Does he possess power mold for the position he'll play? Since he's not younger his rise is sorta past the stage you want to gleam about him for lists. He should be added to ML games soon and that addition may not even last til next list. Just say he's close but you'd rather list so and so since they were recently drafted.

He made a ton of errors as an infielder. Very few as an OF. He's not a butcher, and he can recover with his speed, but he doesn't have the instincts of guys who came up playing CF.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

6 hours ago, Robocaller said:

I really hope that the professional scouts that work for the team have a greatly different assessment than you do.

What an odd thing to say. If they have Ruiz around #10 in the system which is about where I'd have him, it doesn't mean they have low hopes for Ruiz, it means they're feeling just that much better about the others. You know, the ones they had a say in drafting and signing. Of course they like the guys they scouted for months and then brought into the system and helped now develop for months and years.

Again, I think some just don't want to accept that the Brewers weren't getting anyone who would be a no brainer automatic top 3 guy at this point in the process when they were looking for a team's current successful closer in return. Getting Rogers meant a lower tier of prospects. The fact San Diego was saving it's better prospects for Soto and was willing to give up it's own closer rather than keeping him to pair with Hader in late innings, is exactly why the two teams lined up. The Brewers wanted MLB talent as part of the deal and San Diego was more than happy to oblige since it meant holding their best prospects for Soto/Bell.

The hint that Gasser and Ruiz are tier below guys is literally in the fact San Diego was willing to part with them while pursuing a rare, cheap superstar being moved at the deadline.

And quite honestly if someone wants to jump Gasser and Ruiz, who were 2nd to 3rd tier guys in the Padres system, to at or near the top of the Brewers list, then they're essentially saying they didn't think much of the Brewers prospects to begin with. Yet it sounds like people are very excited about the guys who have been in the Brewers system prior to the trade. Which tells me, especially about Ruiz, is this all boils down to with varying degree: shiny new toy, some shiny recent stats, and partially attaching an inflated value because people have long been expecting a haul for Hader.

[Jopal78]

17 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

What an odd thing to say. If they have Ruiz around #10 in the system which is about where I'd have him, it doesn't mean they have low hopes for Ruiz, it means they're feeling just that much better about the others. You know, the ones they had a say in drafting and signing. Of course they like the guys they scouted for months and then brought into the system and helped now develop for months and years.

Again, I think some just don't want to accept that the Brewers weren't getting anyone who would be a no brainer automatic top 3 guy at this point in the process when they were looking for a team's current successful closer in return. Getting Rogers meant a lower tier of prospects. The fact San Diego was saving it's better prospects for Soto and was willing to give up it's own closer rather than keeping him to pair with Hader in late innings, is exactly why the two teams lined up. The Brewers wanted MLB talent as part of the deal and San Diego was more than happy to oblige since it meant holding their best prospects for Soto/Bell.

The hint that Gasser and Ruiz are tier below guys is literally in the fact San Diego was willing to part with them while pursuing a rare, cheap superstar being moved at the deadline.

And quite honestly if someone wants to jump Gasser and Ruiz, who were 2nd to 3rd tier guys in the Padres system, to at or near the top of the Brewers list, then they're essentially saying they didn't think much of the Brewers prospects to begin with. Yet it sounds like people are very excited about the guys who have been in the Brewers system prior to the trade. Which tells me, especially about Ruiz, is this all boils down to with varying degree: shiny new toy, some shiny recent stats, and partially attaching an inflated value because people have long been expecting a haul for Hader.

There may be some truth to that, but also don’t forget AJ Preller is under a great deal of pressure to deliver a playoff heavy weight. He’s been there the better part of a decade and other than 2020 his teams have sucked. 
 

It’s equally likely that Preller is desperate to have a team that can go toe to toe with the Dodgers, so he made some risky moves because he has nothing to lose (If the Padres can’t advance in the playoffs this year he likely gets canned anyways) .

[True Blue Brew Crew]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

There may be some truth to that, but also don’t forget AJ Preller is under a great deal of pressure to deliver a playoff heavy weight. He’s been there the better part of a decade and other than 2020 his teams have sucked. 
 

It’s equally likely that Preller is desperate to have a team that can go toe to toe with the Dodgers, so he made some risky moves because he has nothing to lose (If the Padres can’t advance in the playoffs this year he likely gets canned anyways) .

He emptied the farm no doubt. However, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in Las Vegas, that Preller was trading anyone who might be needed to get Soto. That's doesn't make Gasser and Ruiz a pair of nobodies, but they clearly are in the tiers of prospects that were easier to part with. By getting Rogers, the Brewers were picking from a group that came after a handful of off limits guys that were saved for Soto/Bell.

[Jopal78]

22 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

He emptied the farm no doubt. However, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in Las Vegas, that Preller was trading anyone who might be needed to get Soto. That's doesn't make Gasser and Ruiz a pair of nobodies, but they clearly are in the tiers of prospects that were easier to part with. By getting Rogers, the Brewers were picking from a group that came after a handful of off limits guys that were saved for Soto/Bell.

That’s the funny thing about prospects. Obviously the prospect pundits weren’t as impressed with Gasser, but the Brewers GM stated they had hoped to draft Gasser in the first place and believed he was one of the best pitching prospects in the minor leagues. 
 

Maybe the Brewers could have had MacKenzie Gore instead, and went with Gasser due to liking Gasser more, the current composition of their major league roster, health concerns etc. We’ll never know, but given the GM’s own comments I wouldn’t write the players off as second rate. Only time can tell that. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

That’s the funny thing about prospects. Obviously the prospect pundits weren’t as impressed with Gasser, but the Brewers GM stated they had hoped to draft Gasser in the first place and believed he was one of the best pitching prospects in the minor leagues. 
 

Maybe the Brewers could have had MacKenzie Gore instead, and went with Gasser due to liking Gasser more, the current composition of their major league roster, health concerns etc. We’ll never know, but given the GM’s own comments I wouldn’t write the players off as second rate. Only time can tell that. 

Exactly. I believe Gasser was the priority guy of the two that the Brewers got back and was just posting about it in the minor league forum. If the Brewers had no affection for any of the Padres next tier guys, then the deal doesn't happen, but they did so the deal went down.

[Eye Black]

All good points here, Stearns indicating Gasser was someone they had targeted in last year’s draft seems pretty telling that they were much higher on him than you’ll see reflected in the industry’s prospect rankings. I hope they’re right, because if they can turn Gasser into a mid-rotation starter the trade will look much better a few years down the road.

Ruiz seems like a wild card with still having a fairly wide range of possible outcomes for someone that’s 23 years old. There are aspects of his game to love (speed, recent OBP and contact improvements) and red flags (previous contact issues, reported trouble with velocity, low exit velos, defensive issues at 2B). I am very curious to see how he performs going forward, it could literally either of these cases: 1) the Brewers acquired him at the start of a massive developmental breakout, or 2) the Brewers acquired him at his peak value as he experienced a brief pop-up performance. 

[Playing Catch]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:49 PM, True Blue Brew Crew said:

I think the dirty secret and most overlooked aspect of the Hader trade was that they had no intention of ever paying his final arbitration year, other teams realized it, and the prospect haul was going to be underwhelming at this point. Especially when taking back said trading partner's current major league closer (Rogers) as part of the deal.

In addition, there are a lot of teams, even super-wealthy teams, that don't think paying a closer $15M is a good use of resources. I think the money in this trade was a really important piece to this trade.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but now that the season is over, but the Hader trade for Dinelson, Ruiz, and Rogers trade will go down as one of the worst trades of the Daniel Sterns era.  He gave away the Brewers best relievers with a year of control for two guys that are free agents and a third position player who is currently blocked from the big leagues.  Dinelson would have been a really good long reliever or sixth starter for this team.  Sterns better stick to plan in the future.  He gave away a huge trade chip for nothing.

[Brewcrew82]

12 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

I know hindsight is 20/20 but now that the season is over, but the Hader trade for Dinelson, Ruiz, and Rogers trade will go down as one of the worst trades of the Daniel Sterns era.  He gave away the Brewers best relievers with a year of control for two guys that are free agents and a third position player who is currently blocked from the big leagues.  Dinelson would have been a really good long reliever or sixth starter for this team.  Sterns better stick to plan in the future.  He gave away a huge trade chip for nothing.

Gasser and Ruiz are two really promising prospects, so he didn't "give away Hader for nothing". They will determine the outcome of this trade. If one or both of them turn into major contributors going forward, then the trade will look a lot better. 

[wibadgers23]

15 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

I know hindsight is 20/20 but now that the season is over, but the Hader trade for Dinelson, Ruiz, and Rogers trade will go down as one of the worst trades of the Daniel Sterns era.  He gave away the Brewers best relievers with a year of control for two guys that are free agents and a third position player who is currently blocked from the big leagues.  Dinelson would have been a really good long reliever or sixth starter for this team.  Sterns better stick to plan in the future.  He gave away a huge trade chip for nothing.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Gasser reminds me of Will Inman.  Ruiz like I said is blocked.  

[Brewcrew82]

11 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

Gasser reminds me of Will Inman.  Ruiz like I said is blocked.  

It doesn't matter what they remind you of. They've both produced at the minor league level and are borderline top 100 prospects. That's not "nothing" like you claim it is. If they produce and/or are traded for players that produce, then the Hader trade becomes a lot better-looking. It's wait and see for now.