Game Thread (9/27/2022): Cardinals (Mikolas) at Brewers (Houser) - 6:40 PM CDT

[Nola Beery]

4 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

No

Also no more talk about revenue.

[yfinn6]

11 minutes ago, HarryDoyle said:

No

LOL .. OK. 

[bulldogboy0733]

In the old days teams would line up the best pitchers they have on short rest if necessary in order to make the playoffs. The Brewers started the number 6 starter in a must win game. Make it make sense. 

[HarryDoyle]

The St. Louis Cardinals: Making the Brewers their red headed stepchild since 1982.

[Nola Beery]

At least it's finally over. Good night.

[bulldogboy0733]

If you start a guy with a era of 5 in a must win game against a guy with an era of 3 aren't you basically admitting you cannot win said game?? I don't get it.

[GoBrewers1982]

I want Mitchell to start tomorrow in left and Yelich on the bench! 

[adambr2]

The Cardinals acquired both Goldschmidt and Arenado for pennies on the dollar while we sat on the sidelines.

We signed Andrew McCutchen and acted like it was a huge deal. 

There's a reason they're celebrating on our field tonight and we'll be left catching up on Netflix shows in October. 

[MrTPlush]

5 minutes ago, bulldogboy0733 said:

In the old days teams would line up the best pitchers they have on short rest if necessary in order to make the playoffs. The Brewers started the number 6 starter in a must win game. Make it make sense. 

Must win? 
 

I roll my eyes every time I see that muttered, so overused. I’d consider it perfectly fine if we exit this Cardinals series losing no ground. Guess it depends on what the Phillies do on Thursday when we are idle. 

[sveumrules]

5 minutes ago, bulldogboy0733 said:

If you start a guy with a era of 5 in a must win game against a guy with an era of 3 aren't you basically admitting you cannot win said game?? I don't get it.

It wasn’t a must win game.

Guys with 5 ERAs still win games against guys with 3 ERAs all the time.

The Brewers literally won Houser’s last start against a guy with an ERA in the 3s.

[bulldogboy0733]

1 minute ago, sveumrules said:

It wasn’t a must win game.

Guys with 5 ERAs still win games against guys with 3 ERAs all the time.

The Brewers literally won Houser’s last start against a guy with an ERA in the 3s.

Are the chances better than not you will win?? Especially since your team can't hit. You guys keep acting like we are in June. you do realize the season is over soon correct?? In June fine. It wasn't a must win because they aren't eliminated?? I guess Counsell is using that same logic.

[bulldogboy0733]

10 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Must win? 
 

I roll my eyes every time I see that muttered, so overused. I’d consider it perfectly fine if we exit this Cardinals series losing no ground. Guess it depends on what the Phillies do on Thursday when we are idle. 

Sure they have plenty of time. 

[wiguy94]

20 minutes ago, bulldogboy0733 said:

In the old days teams would line up the best pitchers they have on short rest if necessary in order to make the playoffs. The Brewers started the number 6 starter in a must win game. Make it make sense. 

Does Throwing Top Pitchers on Short Rest Pay off in the Postseason? | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

[wiguy94]

15 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

The Cardinals acquired both Goldschmidt and Arenado for pennies on the dollar while we sat on the sidelines.

We signed Andrew McCutchen and acted like it was a huge deal. 

There's a reason they're celebrating on our field tonight and we'll be left catching up on Netflix shows in October. 

Yeah because they have actually had success drafting in the last decade which has kept both their team and farm strong. Brewers farm was decimated after the Yelich trade because we have sucked in the draft for a decade. 

 

Here's a comparison of total bWAR from players drafted (and signed) by the Brewers and Cardinals from 2010 to 2020. Doesn't include players drafted and not signed. 

Brewers have 40.7 bWAR from pitchers and 32.3 bWAR from position players for a total of 73 bWAR as of today. Cardinals have 63.5 bWAR from pitchers and 101.1 bWAR from position players for a total of 164.6 bWAR as of today.

So in an 11 draft span the Cardinals have drafted 91.6 more bWAR than the Brewers have. 

[wntrtxn21]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

That's just nasty. Thanks for giving the data. Just need to show that picture when people are upset he doesn't play more.

Hiura is now .500 for September (20 whiffs in 40 ABs).  I think his future in Milwaukee is being measured in days. The strikeouts are just to overwhelming to keep him next year. 

[Outlander]

1 hour ago, bulldogboy0733 said:

Are the chances better than not you will win?? Especially since your team can't hit. You guys keep acting like we are in June. you do realize the season is over soon correct?? In June fine. It wasn't a must win because they aren't eliminated?? I guess Counsell is using that same logic.

It was must win if you feel the Phillies finish 7-2 or better. My guess is the Phillies finish 6-3 so it is must win here on our for the Brewers in my opinion 

[UpandIn]

8 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

In 2018, each MLB team received $209M in revenue sharing (less for the teams who went over the luxury tax). These numbers have only gone up each year as MLB has increasing revenues year-upon-year.

In 2020 only 6 teams had local TV deals in excess of $100M with the Dodgers by far the largest at $239M and the other 6 between $100M and $139M). Every one of those deals expires after 2030 so no change year to year or a big uptick.

Only the Dodgers make more from their TV rights than revenue sharing, while 25 out of the teams in MLB make 2/3rds of their revenue from REVENUE SHARING.

Yes a few teams have very large local TV deals, but most actually run a majority of their operations from revenue sharing.

The Brewers will always be behind in local TV because they are the smallest market, but there's plenty of money, if spent wisely for them to compete.  I'm not arguing that the playing field is level, but it is much more level for 75% of the teams than most people think.

I'm not certain some of these numbers are right...and that's one of the big problems. I've seen Forbes estimate(which Baseball Reference later used and then trickled out through other sources)...but there are also a dozen factors it doesn't seems Forbes accounted for and that's all the games played.

Also, it's definitely gone down since then. MLB had to borrow an enormous amount of money in 2020 to pay out that revenue sharing with the promise that the large market teams would pay it back...this has not yet been settled(I guess, it's hard to find absolute answers on this). They SEEM to be back operating as normal now, though because it's net revenue and things like servicing debt is not included in that 48% figure. So that's a massive number the last couple years.

Finally, the Dodgers are on a TV deal that increases every year. The deal they signed is worth an AVERAGE of over 300M...they signed a 8.35B dollar deal(25 years) yet it was only valued at 2B which screwed the rest out of the league out of a LOT of that revenue...they technically own a big chunk of SportsNet LA...which as I understand it was just a way to get around paying as much into revenue sharing as there are financial benefits to taking on risk when owning your own broadcasting rights...though that didn't really apply here as they just went with Fox...I believe. It was a whole very "Jerry Jones" like deal on the Dodgers behalf when the new ownership group was buying the team. But the Dodgers will end up making much more on a per year basis than 239M.

The Yankees and the Yes Network. They're reportedly generating 400M in revenue for the organization...but here again, there's a lot of playing with the numbers because they re-acquired the YES network for 3.47B, so they that massive revenue they're getting, they can also exclude that from the revenue. There is some variation of this with over half the teams who have an ownership stake in the company that broadcasts their games. Kinda feels like this would be a good way to go for Brewers fans who are per capita, more invested in this team than any other in Baseball.

So...these numbers seem to be disputed...in no small part due to the absolute f-ery of the owners who play games. So you're just kinda left guessing at what the value is based on what it should be while knowing their all trying to screw each other and they DEFINITELY don't want the average fan to see their accounting(or they'll revolt like they did ~15 years ago when the Pirates financials leaked). 

The MLPA wanted 100M cut from revenue sharing...which made no sense, but they're arguing(correctly) that teams who are getting money from revenue sharing are not using that money to actually try and compete. Some are using that money to re-invest in their scouting departments and while that certainly makes sense, it's still not making up for, or the intent behind revenue sharing.

What they SHOULD have been fighting for, rather than reducing revenue sharing by 100M would be a FLOOR. 

 

 

Once again, all Football fans should thank Wellington Mara and Pete Rozelle for not allowing the NFL to become what MLB is...but it'd be even worse. 

Also, the Green Bay Packers who make their figures public, they received 309M...and that's with the NFL sharing ALL sources of revenue. All the TV money, the gate receipts are even split up with 40% going into the revenue sharing pool(though not luxury boxes which is how the aforementioned Jerry Jones screwed over his fellow owners when he showed them his plans for Jerry-world and then in reality added a ton of luxury boxes which is money they, again, keep and had to go back to the owners, hat in hand, asking for more money). 

 

End of the day, I don't buy that every MLB team starts out with 209M(Which based on those numbers would now be closer to 240-250M from revenue sharing before factoring in their 52% of the revenue. There's just too many unknowns and loopholes. 

 

If you can actually make sense of it...well, good luck. I can't. I do think the Brewers can afford to spend more money than they are...and I think they will(this is very upsetting to some people). I don't think they can afford to spend a whole lot more and I don't believe they're making a whole lot of money. In other words, they're not the Nutting family just putting out a team and pocketing tens of millions while making little effort to be competitive year over year. 

 

Maybe one day the City of Milwaukee will buy the Brewers and we'll get a better idea of what the actual numbers are. But they're likely not as dire as some would suggest and they're not as flush as I think others believe.

[UpandIn]

11 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Well, let’s not forget he’s the majority owner of the Brewers, which would conservatively be valued at 1 billion dollars. Assuming he owns at least 51% that’s a half billion in net worth, without considering whatever hedge fund monies he has outside of baseball which is in the hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars.

They don’t buy these teams for the profits, it’s for the equity. The profits whatever they may be are change to the billionaire class who own most professional sports teams in America

Would be inaccurate. He is a minority owner. He owns a larger share of the team than anyone else. He does not own more than half the team. I believe it was 34% about a decade ago, but who knows how much that's has changed.

And LOL...yes, many of these owners absolutely buy these teams for the profits. Especially the ones who purchased when they still had tax exempt status. The profits are tens to hundreds of millions of dollars in MANY professional sports. Not..."change" to billionaires(which Attanasio is not).