Should have kept hiura

[Fear The Chorizo]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Hiura has destroyed AAA pitching every time they've sent him down over the last 3 years. The fact that he's destroying AAA pitching once again shouldn't surprise anyone. For him to get back to the majors, he's going to have to prove that he's made significant changes to the approach that had him striking out at a 40+% clip last season. It also wouldn't hurt if he devoted more time to making himself into a solid defensive option somewhere on the diamond. It is encouraging to see him getting time in the corner OF, and to see him making significant game-saving type plays out there. If he proves that he can play in the field and not be a terrible liability, and he continues to rake while reducing the swing-and-miss tendencies he's developed over the last few years, there's a chance we may see him in a Brewer uniform again. If anything, the production may convince another team to give up something in a trade to take a chance on him.

Some of this is true, while some of it isnt - in 2021 when Hiura really struggled at the MLB level he also struggled just the same in AAA and was shut down early in that season.  Last year, yeah he pummeled AAA when he was down there and getting consistent ABs, after he started the first couple months of the season largely riding the MLB bench and getting sporadic ABs primarily against lefthanded pitching while the rest of the team also couldn't hit.  Despite the consistent knock on Hiura due to his too high K rate at the MLB level, his offensive production was still decent despite getting yo-yo'd in and out of the lineup most of the year.  Don't get me wrong - his one solid opportunity to hit everyday in the lineup was cut off because he got into an auto-k mode in early September just after he was finally putting together enough quality at bats to for CC to play him consistently.

Early reports of Hiura in the OF are promising, although he just doesn't have the arm to be a plus outfield defender - his bat will determine whether he has a long MLB career or not as a DH, or if he winds up having a long professional career in the minors/overseas

[wiguy94]

4 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Some of this is true, while some of it isnt - in 2021 when Hiura really struggled at the MLB level he also struggled just the same in AAA and was shut down early in that season.  Last year, yeah he pummeled AAA when he was down there and getting consistent ABs, after he started the first couple months of the season largely riding the MLB bench and getting sporadic ABs primarily against lefthanded pitching while the rest of the team also couldn't hit.  Despite the consistent knock on Hiura due to his too high K rate at the MLB level, his offensive production was still decent despite getting yo-yo'd in and out of the lineup most of the year.  Don't get me wrong - his one solid opportunity to hit everyday in the lineup was cut off because he got into an auto-k mode in early September.

Early reports of Hiura in the OF are promising, although he just doesn't have the arm to be a plus outfield defender - his bat will determine whether he has a long MLB career or not as a DH, or if he winds up having a long professional career in the minors/overseas

Hiura had a 127 wRC+ in AAA in 2021 which is only 10 points lower than his current 137 wRC+ in AAA.

[Jopal78]

11 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Some of this is true, while some of it isnt - in 2021 when Hiura really struggled at the MLB level he also struggled just the same in AAA and was shut down early in that season.  Last year, yeah he pummeled AAA when he was down there and getting consistent ABs, after he started the first couple months of the season largely riding the MLB bench and getting sporadic ABs primarily against lefthanded pitching while the rest of the team also couldn't hit.  Despite the consistent knock on Hiura due to his too high K rate at the MLB level, his offensive production was still decent despite getting yo-yo'd in and out of the lineup most of the year.  Don't get me wrong - his one solid opportunity to hit everyday in the lineup was cut off because he got into an auto-k mode in early September just after he was finally putting together enough quality at bats to for CC to play him consistently.

Early reports of Hiura in the OF are promising, although he just doesn't have the arm to be a plus outfield defender - his bat will determine whether he has a long MLB career or not as a DH, or if he winds up having a long professional career in the minors/overseas

Well, less than a month ago he was on waivers and every single team in the majors passed on giving him a roster spot.
 

I’m not sure of the current CBA rules but I believe if he rejected reporting to AAA after going unclaimed and  being out-righted he would have forfeited his salary.
 

Thus I think it’s a marriage of convenience, Hiura bides his time in AAA while collecting a paycheck and the Brewers have another depth piece at AAA should a rash of injuries hit.

[Outlander]

Nobody wanted to pay Hiura a couple of million to sort out his issues so I agree it is a marriage of convenience. It isn't happening now but if he performs well and get that K% down then somebody will eventually inquire of him. After the trade deadline a bunch of teams will need guys to fill out rosters and Hiura could still be traded.

[GreatNWwi]

20 hours ago, Outlander said:

Nobody wanted to pay Hiura a couple of million to sort out his issues so I agree it is a marriage of convenience. It isn't happening now but if he performs well and get that K% down then somebody will eventually inquire of him. After the trade deadline a bunch of teams will need guys to fill out rosters and Hiura could still be traded.

Doesn't the team picking up a DFAed player only have to pay league minimum while the DFAing team pays the rest of his salary?  IF so, that says a lot about what the rest of the league thinks about him as an overall roster addition.

But then again, I am about the last person you would ask on how these things work.

 

[Team Canada]

56 minutes ago, GreatNWwi said:

Doesn't the team picking up a DFAed player only have to pay league minimum while the DFAing team pays the rest of his salary?  IF so, that says a lot about what the rest of the league thinks about him as an overall roster addition.

But then again, I am about the last person you would ask on how these things work.

 

Yes.

[Ro Mueller]

1 hour ago, GreatNWwi said:

Doesn't the team picking up a DFAed player only have to pay league minimum while the DFAing team pays the rest of his salary?  IF so, that says a lot about what the rest of the league thinks about him as an overall roster addition.

But then again, I am about the last person you would ask on how these things work.

 

No, the claiming team picks up the full player's salary. This is how the Rockies (Dinelson Lamet) and Nationals (Jake McGee) saved the Brewers some coin with claims in August last year. And it's part of why Lindblom (about $3m/year) and Hiura ($2.2m this year) weren't claimed.

[SeaBass]

1 hour ago, GreatNWwi said:

Doesn't the team picking up a DFAed player only have to pay league minimum while the DFAing team pays the rest of his salary?  IF so, that says a lot about what the rest of the league thinks about him as an overall roster addition.

But then again, I am about the last person you would ask on how these things work.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

Yes.

Is this true? I thought once a player was exposed to waivers the claiming team would be responsible for the entire contract. If Hiura had cleared waivers and become a FA then no but he never got to that stage since he was outrighted to the minors, correct?

In essence, a claiming team would have to claim Hiura's major league contract, place him on their 40 man roster and 26 man major league roster. That's a lot of risk if a team isn't sure they want to put him on their major league club plus DFA and/or option one of their own major league players. Right?

[SeaBass]

Ahh, this is making me nostalgic for that time Jacob Nottingham was DFA'd by the Brewers, claimed by Seattle, then immediately DFA'd by Seattle, claimed by the Brewers, played for a little while in Milwaukee and then DFA'd again and claimed by Seattle again. Good times.

[stoutdude04]

3 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

Ahh, this is making me nostalgic for that time Jacob Nottingham was DFA'd by the Brewers, claimed by Seattle, then immediately DFA'd by Seattle, claimed by the Brewers, played for a little while in Milwaukee and then DFA'd again and claimed by Seattle again. Good times.

That was awesome.

[Team Canada]

13 minutes ago, SeaBass said:

 

Is this true? I thought once a player was exposed to waivers the claiming team would be responsible for the entire contract. If Hiura had cleared waivers and become a FA then no but he never got to that stage since he was outrighted to the minors, correct?

In essence, a claiming team would have to claim Hiura's major league contract, place him on their 40 man roster and 26 man major league roster. That's a lot of risk if a team isn't sure they want to put him on their major league club plus DFA and/or option one of their own major league players. Right?

This isn't waivers though, this is DFA. The DFAing team is on the hook for the entire salary, less the major league minimum that any other team that signs the player covers.

A waiver claim is exactly that, you're claiming the player and their current contract.

[SeaBass]

1 minute ago, Team Canada said:

This isn't waivers though, this is DFA. The DFAing team is on the hook for the entire salary, less the major league minimum that any other team that signs the player covers.

A waiver claim is exactly that, you're claiming the player and their current contract.

Going on waivers is part of the DFA process.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/designate-for-assignment

There are no alternate rules for waivers that I am aware of. Waivers are waivers regardless of how a player is placed on waivers.

[Team Canada]

Right. The player clears waivers and is either sent to the minors or released. In the case of an established major leaguer, that means they're released and can sign with other clubs. The original club is still responsible for the entire salary, less, the ML minimum if they do sign.  You can read any recent article about Bumgarner to see this discussed.

[SeaBass]

16 hours ago, Team Canada said:

Right. The player clears waivers and is either sent to the minors or released. In the case of an established major leaguer, that means they're released and can sign with other clubs. The original club is still responsible for the entire salary, less, the ML minimum if they do sign.  You can read any recent article about Bumgarner to see this discussed.

Yes, Hiura cleared waivers and was immediately outrighted to the minors. He was never a free agent therefore no other team could aquire him as waivers was their only chance. Yet you answered "yes" to the original post which was the source of my confusion.

Can you see how I thought you meant if another team had claimed him off waivers? No team had any other opportunity except by waivers.

[Fear The Chorizo]

11 HR, nearly a 1.100 OPS, a 2.5/1 K/BB ratio, and a 25% K rate through about 125 AAA plate appearances.....keep it up, Keston!

Hiura will either be included as part of a trade package to acquire pitching help, or brought up before the AS break to try and boost the offense if it continues sputtering.  He may wind up proving to be a AAAA player that can never make the MLB adjustment to justify everyday at bats, but at least he's producing at a rate in AAA that will force MLB teams to keep giving him opportunities in the majors for a team in search of a DH.

[MrTPlush]

Wonder how long they waste roster space on Winker. He may turn it around, but after posting a .688 OPS last year...maybe he really does just suck. I guess he puts up a nice OBP...but jeez.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Hiura is probably better than Voit but only in a role the Brewers do not need filled on the 26-man roster. Which is the problem with the overall roster construction right now. The Brewers need someone to step into a corner role and mash lefties. They simply don't have that player.

[jay87shot]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Hiura is probably better than Voit but only in a role the Brewers do not need filled on the 26-man roster. Which is the problem with the overall roster construction right now. The Brewers need someone to step into a corner role and mash lefties. They simply don't have that player.

Huira isn't an ideal platoon with Rowdy but at this point you can't be much worse than Voit at the plate. He could take DH ab's from Winker and would be passible in the OF for a game here or there and could play 2B in an emergency. He would a much bigger role than Voit or Winker fill and at this point could be big upgrade. It is crazy to me that he has been trash vs. LHP (.201 career) which is a big worry in platooning with Rowdy.

He would be an upgrade if he plays at last years standards as well. If he can play the OF better than I imagine that would help 3B because Anderson could play more 3rd and less RF. At least as a stopgap until a trade option comes around later in the year.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

Huira isn't an ideal platoon with Rowdy but at this point you can't be much worse than Voit at the plate. He could take DH ab's from Winker and would be passible in the OF for a game here or there and could play 2B in an emergency. He would a much bigger role than Voit or Winker fill and at this point could be big upgrade. It is crazy to me that he has been trash vs. LHP (.201 career) which is a big worry in platooning with Rowdy.

He would be an upgrade if he plays at last years standards as well. If he can play the OF better than I imagine that would help 3B because Anderson could play more 3rd and less RF. At least as a stopgap until a trade option comes around later in the year.

The problem is that Hiura is not on the 40-man and once he's there, you're stuck with him and it's unlikely he clears waivers again.

I'd much rather see Arnold aggressively pursue a longer-term option against LHP than call up Hiura. It doesn't even need to be a great option, just a guy who can post an .800 OPS against LHP and be flat-out terrible against RHP.

[TURBO]

9 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

K% down to 25.4%. That's below where it was when he was called up in 2019. Better OPS against LHP than RHP. It's time, for both him and Voit. We need to find out before the trade deadline. 

Agreed.

Voit has proven nothing, other than he just plain sucks.

Hiura needs to be rewarded and he has nothing left to prove at AAA.

He can easily fill Voits spot and at this point, Winkers too.

Give the kid another shot, it's time!

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm not so sure going back to part time work is the best route forward. Let him stay in AAA all year and maybe give him the everyday DH spot next season. We don't have to use a 40 man roster spot now, we don't use any service times and we can make sure he can keep his strikeout rate at an acceptable level.

[TURBO]

15 minutes ago, Thurston Fluff said:

I'm not so sure going back to part time work is the best route forward. Let him stay in AAA all year and maybe give him the everyday DH spot next season. We don't have to use a 40 man roster spot now, we don't use any service times and we can make sure he can keep his strikeout rate at an acceptable level.

All true, but why not give him the rest of this season to be the full time DH?

Like you, I don't want to see him get called up and get 5-6 AB per week, if we give him another shot, it needs to be full time.  Everything you said though is true and reasonable.  I can go that route too, however, what washed up bat will we add next off season to be our DH instead of giving Keston a go?  If we don't give him another shot next season at the latest, then he just needs to be traded.

[Playing Catch]

David Ortiz didn't really break out until after age 26... just sayin'.

[Thurston Fluff]

56 minutes ago, TURBO said:

All true, but why not give him the rest of this season to be the full time DH?

Like you, I don't want to see him get called up and get 5-6 AB per week, if we give him another shot, it needs to be full time.  Everything you said though is true and reasonable.  I can go that route too, however, what washed up bat will we add next off season to be our DH instead of giving Keston a go?  If we don't give him another shot next season at the latest, then he just needs to be traded.

AT some point it may make sense but I don't think we're there yet. Winker has a long enough track record to believe he can turn things around. I know he wasn't good last year either but injuries take their toll even after the pain is gone. Sometimes there's a phantom effect that takes some time to overcome.

[brewcrewdue80]

If/when you call up Hiura he'd just take Voit's 40man roster spot seeing as he'd be dfa.  

Once the crew make this move, it's now or never with Hiura. Can't dfa and hope to see him go unclaimed. They also would need to hope Hiura doesn't elect FA.