2023-24 Bucks Season Thread

[sveumrules]

Now that we know Adrian Griffin will be the new head coach figured I’d start a thread for the new season.

Griffin got his start as an assistant under Scott Skiles on the 2008 Bucks. Time…it goes.

Players currently under contract are Giannis, Jrue, Bobby, Pat, Grayson and Marjon.

Sounds like Khris was at the meeting of the minds with Giannis, Horst and the owners after the interviews were done so he is likely back, will be interesting to see where the numbers come in.

Not a cap expert, but believe we can also retain any of Brook, Jevon, Jingles, Jae, Wes, Dragic, Meyers Leonard and Thanasis but it will come with tax hits. That’s what Dolan is here for.

Not a lot of room to maneuver with some combo of Bobby, Pat, Grayson, Marjon all they can really dangle for any kind of upgrade around the edges or in something like say a Fred Van Vleet sign and trade.

I’d guess Jrue isn’t going anywhere, but he apparently wasn’t at the aforementioned meeting of the minds, so maybe he’d be the outgoing piece if they look to make a splashier move.

[Joseph Zarr]

The more I learn of Griffin the more I become an absolute fan. He has paid his literal dues ever step of his journey. He was on Skiles' Bucks staff because he played for Skiles as a player while Skiles coached the Bulls. Got one big time program offer to Seton Hall in the Big East - took it and his senior year got 2nd team Big East honors. Went undrafted and played CBA and USBL before the Celtics gave him the opportunity on a classic undrafted two year deal. Skiles saw he was teaching and related with the young guys. He is just an extremely likable guy. Highly recommend checking out this 18 minute video. It gives great insight to who he is, how he is, and how his players love him:

 

[GAME05]

I'm inclined to think they will try to reduce their repeater tax hit as much as they can this offseason. I think Grayson Allen will be gone and I suspect so will be Brook Lopez, replaced by Myers Leonard and some defense-only center.

I wonder what the front office is thinking, that either we're just a head coach away from competing again, or if they think Giannis just buoyed a middling team and we need to retool a lot more. If retool, maybe Jrue gets traded since he only has the one more year on his contract to bring some youth and energy back to the team. Plus if Jrue were replaced by someone with a little more offensive upside, maybe that also helps to cut down on Giannis' usage rate next year.

[patrickgpe]

What i read and already knew about Griffin all seems positive. Nurse was named the sixers head coach today. What we don’t know (and probably will never) is that if Nurse pulled out of the bucks job because he was told he wasn’t getting it, or if he did really want to coach sixers over the bucks and suns. 

[Joseph Zarr]

It is absolutely classic Bucks to have their two beat writers with zero scoop and zero interviews of purported new HC Adrian Griffin when we are now just about two weeks from the informal Woj announcement.

Not even a single word or insight on a possible coaching staff? Nothing about the official announcement - is this delayed is the delay due to trying to assemble a coaching staff? Did Monty Williams' ridiculously large contract influence contractual negotiations OR are those already complete?

Bucks will always Buck. The more things change...😂

[MVP2110]

10 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

It is absolutely classic Bucks to have their two beat writers with zero scoop and zero interviews of purported new HC Adrian Griffin when we are now just about two weeks from the informal Woj announcement.

Not even a single word or insight on a possible coaching staff? Nothing about the official announcement - is this delayed is the delay due to trying to assemble a coaching staff? Did Monty Williams' ridiculously large contract influence contractual negotiations OR are those already complete?

Bucks will always Buck. The more things change...😂

Nehm reported tonight that the Bucks are looking at Terry Stotts and/or James Borrego for spots on his bench. Also said Griffin has signed his contract and has been in Milwaukee all week. He will be making 4 mil a year reportedly. Not sure what the delay is though in making it official and holding the press conference 

[homer]

13 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

Nehm reported tonight that the Bucks are looking at Terry Stotts and/or James Borrego for spots on his bench. Also said Griffin has signed his contract and has been in Milwaukee all week. He will be making 4 mil a year reportedly. Not sure what the delay is though in making it official and holding the press conference 

Gotta pass the physical :)

[Joseph Zarr]

Terry Stotts lead assistant. I can not impart how utterly AWESOME this is. He's an offensive design savant:

This. Is. Huge. 

Can I get out the first: "Bring Dame Home." chant?

[Joseph Zarr]

 

[patrickgpe]

Dame aside, it’s important to have an experienced head coach as your top assistant and it helps he is an offensively focused one if griffin is more of a defensive guy 

[Joseph Zarr]

I think the Introductory Griffin presser is today? Signing official as of last night. Yep:

 

[patrickgpe]

He said all of the right things and destroyed the press conference but he is still a rookie head coach in a championship or bust situation. I’m glad Stotts is there to assist though 

[MVP2110]

A few things that stood out to me

Offensively he discussed wanting to pass more often and create offense through those passes, what's interesting is Stotts has typically run a version of offense that isn't very pass happy, his offenses typically finished near the bottom of the league in assists so I'm curious to see how that plays out

Defensively he mentioned high pressure, high turnovers. Which I like the idea but doesn't exactly seem to fit Brook's skillset(who he also specifically mentioned working with so it seems a good bet he'll be back). So I'm curious how he'll fit Brook into that style of defense

Some other things that stood out 

-I loved how he mentioned the need to strike a balance in the Regular season and that the regular season is all about prepping for "April, May, & June"

-He discussed creating transition offense which by itself is fine, but I do remember seeing studies done that showed that offenses that were predicated on transition opportunities and/or drawing alot of FTs tended to struggle more in the playoffs when the game becomes more dependent on the Halfcourt execution. I'm not sure he meant to go that in detail about it but it's something I'll be keeping my eye on throughout the season 

[sveumrules]

It’s pretty simple to me.

The version of Giannis that won back to back MVPs four/five years ago now at age 24/25…is gone and ain’t coming back.

The version of Giannis that won Finals MVP three years ago…is gone and ain’t coming back.

I know there are a bevy of advanced metrics, but one of the most basic and telling for me is TS+, essentially the same idea as OPS+, but for scoring efficiency.

Over the last five seasons Giannis has gone 115, 109, 111, 112, and then down to 104 last year. That’s a big drop off.

Obviously load management is a whole thing of its own in the modern NBA, but Giannis isn’t sitting games for the fun of it. He’s sitting games because his overly reckless play style exposes him to additional injury risk and it’s piling up. He’s missed 10, 10, 11, 15 and 19 games the last five seasons.

If Griffin and staff can’t figure out a way to re-invent Giannis into his thirties (and get him on board with it) so he regains his efficiency via a new scheme/style of play that allows him to start playing gradually more instead of increasingly less…nothing else will really matter all that much anyway.

[GAME05]

The mid-range jumpshots and 3s hurts his TS, but he's also got to learn them if he wants to play much past 30.

Jrue isn't really an offensive aggressor and Milddleton has always been their bailout guy, but the team could really use someone who's a bit of a ballhog and scarier in the halfcourt game. Giannis is probably more ideal as a #2 all-around sorta player.

[Samurai Bucky]

On 6/7/2023 at 2:37 AM, sveumrules said:

Over the last five seasons Giannis has gone 115, 109, 111, 112, and then down to 104 last year. That’s a big drop off.

Obviously load management is a whole thing of its own in the modern NBA, but Giannis isn’t sitting games for the fun of it. He’s sitting games because his overly reckless play style exposes him to additional injury risk and it’s piling up. He’s missed 10, 10, 11, 15 and 19 games the last five seasons.

If Griffin and staff can’t figure out a way to re-invent Giannis into his thirties (and get him on board with it) so he regains his efficiency via a new scheme/style of play that allows him to start playing gradually more instead of increasingly less…nothing else will really matter all that much anyway.

Is Giannis playing in Greece again this year?  He played for them last year during the NBA offseason.  He is not a spring chicken anymore and needs to let his body heal in the offseason.

[patrickgpe]

please no.

https://clutchpoints.com/bucks-why-signing-chris-paul-in-free-agency-would-be-perfect-fit-next-to-giannis-antetokounmpo

[nate82]

Middleton had minor knee surgery:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nba/bucks/2023/06/08/milwaukee-bucks-all-star-khris-middleton-had-right-knee-surgery-after-nba-playoffs/70302028007/

I wonder if he will be opting in instead of out now?

[MVP2110]

Not sure it's entirely true considering the source, but Woelfel is reporting the Bucks offered the HC job to both Monty Williams & Kelvin Sampson but got turned down. He's also the only to report so far that Vin Baker & Josh Oppenheimer will be returning to the staff 

https://woelfelspressbox.com/2023/06/sources-at-least-two-coaches-rejected-bucks-head-coaching-job/

[wallus]

Happy to hear that Vin is coming back.

[BrewerFan]

On 6/7/2023 at 2:37 AM, sveumrules said:

It’s pretty simple to me.

The version of Giannis that won back to back MVPs four/five years ago now at age 24/25…is gone and ain’t coming back.

The version of Giannis that won Finals MVP three years ago…is gone and ain’t coming back.

I know there are a bevy of advanced metrics, but one of the most basic and telling for me is TS+, essentially the same idea as OPS+, but for scoring efficiency.

Over the last five seasons Giannis has gone 115, 109, 111, 112, and then down to 104 last year. That’s a big drop off.

Obviously load management is a whole thing of its own in the modern NBA, but Giannis isn’t sitting games for the fun of it. He’s sitting games because his overly reckless play style exposes him to additional injury risk and it’s piling up. He’s missed 10, 10, 11, 15 and 19 games the last five seasons.

If Griffin and staff can’t figure out a way to re-invent Giannis into his thirties (and get him on board with it) so he regains his efficiency via a new scheme/style of play that allows him to start playing gradually more instead of increasingly less…nothing else will really matter all that much anyway.

WHAT? Are you seriously inferring that the best of Giannis is "gone," at the ripe old age of 28?

 

That's....wild. 

[BrewerFan]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:54 AM, GAME05 said:

The mid-range jumpshots and 3s hurts his TS, but he's also got to learn them if he wants to play much past 30.

Jrue isn't really an offensive aggressor and Milddleton has always been their bailout guy, but the team could really use someone who's a bit of a ballhog and scarier in the halfcourt game. Giannis is probably more ideal as a #2 all-around sorta player.

I'm...just at a total loss for words. "Giannis is probably more ideal as a #2 all-around sorta player."

 

He's been the consensus best player in the NBA the last 3 years and ONLY passed up because Jokic is having the type of post-season he had. Speaking of which, they're almost exactly the same age.

 

So who are we adding so that Giannis is our #2? Man...do we get spoiled QUICK in Wisconsin. You've got a top ~15 player ALL-TIME in his prime and people are saying at...again, TWENTY-EIGHT years old, his prime is behind him and now that he's more ideal as a #2.

Guess not a total lost for words, but just dumbstruck either way. 

[GAME05]

I don't mean that Giannis should be the second-best player on the team, as that would be impossible, but that I'd like to see the offense centered around somebody else who can create their own shot. Giannis draws attention even without the ball, should do well in a pick and roll offense, good at offensive rebounds and being available for a pass in the paint. Not the guy needing to go 30/8/8 to win but the guy who goes 20/12/6. 

What we've seen out of their offense for years is Giannis gets the ball at the top of the key and tries to drive the basket. If that doesn't work, reset and try again. If that doesn't work, pass to Middleton with three seconds left to try and make some heavily contested shot. 

So I guess more of a Jamal Murray alongside Giannis. Middleton is the best bail-out shooter in the NBA, but doesn't lead the offense. Jrue tries but he's low-percentage. Ideally I'd like to see the others create opportunities for Giannis rather than the other way around. We used to see a lot of that with young LeBron, too. 

I respect that we're pretty handcuffed with a roster and that a Jrue trade isn't going to bring in some All-Star, but it's still an offense I'd prefer to see instead of Giannis doing everything and the rest of the cast just chucks up 3s. 

[sveumrules]

9 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

WHAT? Are you seriously inferring that the best of Giannis is "gone," at the ripe old age of 28?

 

That's....wild. 

Giannis 16-18: 26.7 PER | .599 TS% | .209 WS/48
Giannis 18-22: 31.0 PER | .631 TS% | .275 WS/48
Giannis 22-23: 29.0 PER | .605 TS% | .204 WS/48

His production last season was much closer to All Star Giannis during the Kidd era than it was to MVP Giannis during the first four seasons of the Bud era.

I hope it is just a one season blip, but yes, barring changes to his playing style we very well may have seen the best of Giannis already. Is it really that wild to think his reckless game based on being stronger and more athletic than the other guy might not age the best, especially after we've already seen a notable drop in efficiency while the games missed pile up a little more every year?

[CheezWizHed]

Given Giannis' game style, I could buy that he might have peaked already.  His game is predicated on being uber-athletic.  Father time catches up with him too.  When that is gone, he won't have a jumper to fall back on.