Nightengale Notebook: Is Counsell going to retire?

[Never Outhustled]

11 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Sure, so could every other owner in MLB. Some owners, with larger team specific income streams and greater personal wealth, could easily spend another $100M+ a year on payroll.

 

Demographically, the Brewers are a mid market, not a small market. I'm sure Attanasio appreciates you caught water for him though. 

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, Never Outhustled said:

Demographically, the Brewers are a mid market, not a small market. I'm sure Attanasio appreciates you caught water for him though. 

Are they?

This link would indicate Mark A is among the half dozen poorest owners in MLB.

This one says they receive the least annually on their local TV contract.

Which ten MLB markets are smaller than Milwaukee to make them mid-market?

[Never Outhustled]

8 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Are they?

This link would indicate Mark A is among the half dozen poorest owners in MLB.

This one says they receive the least annually on their local TV contract.

Which ten MLB markets are smaller than Milwaukee to make them mid-market?

Attanasio accepting a bad TV deal means we suddenly shrunk demographically? Population and demographics are different. It's about who has money to spend on baseball. Attanasio admitted when he bought the team it was because of these demigraphics.

[Austin Tatious]

Stearns, Counsell and Tod Johnson have been tremendous for the Brewers, the best leadership we’ve ever had in terms of developing an organization for sustained success.  You can nitpick a decision here and there but that’s beside the point.  What they’ve done is set in motion organizational philosophies, structure and functionalities that have allowed the Brewers to succeed despite market size and keep it going.  

Unless you’re a Ryan Braun level guy, our young players come up and take their lumps.  Burnes, Woody, Peralta et al.  Now we are working in Turang, Frelick and Wiemer and are still in first place.  Add Black, Chourio, Gasser, among others, next year.

We have lost Stearns but we can maintain the organizational philosophies he’s put in place.  Hopefully we can hang on to Johnson and Counsell.   Murphy would slide into the Counsell role but he’s the best manager here of our lifetimes.  He’s still young so hopefully they can work it out.  

[sveumrules]

1 hour ago, Never Outhustled said:

Attanasio accepting a bad TV deal means we suddenly shrunk demographically? Population and demographics are different. It's about who has money to spend on baseball. Attanasio admitted when he bought the team it was because of these demigraphics.

Milwaukee has always been among the smallest markets in all of professional sports, do you have any data that makes a case otherwise? Or something that illustrates how the Brewers have a demographic advantage relative to other MLB teams?

[Never Outhustled]

33 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Milwaukee has always been among the smallest markets in all of professional sports, do you have any data that makes a case otherwise? Or something that illustrates how the Brewers have a demographic advantage relative to other MLB teams?

It was in several articles after Attanasio bought the team. Brewers were in the 12-15 range. I don't know how the Brewers got saddled with such a bad TV deal, considering their viewership numbers. That's a mystery, a long with why they haven't sold a jersey add.

[torts]

1 hour ago, Never Outhustled said:

It was in several articles after Attanasio bought the team. Brewers were in the 12-15 range. I don't know how the Brewers got saddled with such a bad TV deal, considering their viewership numbers. That's a mystery, a long with why they haven't sold a jersey add.

The brewers are the smallest market in baseball, and here are some more sources.  Do you have any sources to back your statement?

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-market-size-nfl-mlb-nhl-nielsen-ratings/

 

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/baseball_markets.shtml

 

 

[brewers888]

Both Counsell and Arnold have their contracts up after the season. We know Counsell has chosen to wait to decide if he wants to continue managing the team but why have we heard nothing about the future of Arnold as the GM.

[brewers888]

We barely have a positive run differential and still are in first place. We can nitpick certain decisions from Counsell but he gets everything possible out of this roster. I really hope he stays because he would be extremely hard to replace. 

[Never Outhustled]

6 hours ago, torts said:

The brewers are the smallest market in baseball, and here are some more sources.  Do you have any sources to back your statement?

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/nba-market-size-nfl-mlb-nhl-nielsen-ratings/

 

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/baseball_markets.shtml

 

 

That's market size based on population, somewhat irrelevant to the actual demographics that impact baseball income. It's an outdated was to classify markets.

[jw5511986]

1 hour ago, Never Outhustled said:

That's market size based on population, somewhat irrelevant to the actual demographics that impact baseball income. It's an outdated was to classify markets.

Ok maybe it's an outdated metric, you keep alluding to some other metric that has Milwaukee middle of the road, can you explain clearly what it is? Assume many of us are essentially golden retrievers and spell it out in specifics for us.

[BrewerFan]

17 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

The Brewers are currently 10 games over in spite of more nights where they forget how to hit more than any other team in the NL and having outscored opponents by 1 run on the season. He's doing something very right.

If he'd have just said the gap between Counsell was larger between him and other NL managers before the implemented the 3 batter minimum, added the DH and then limited the number of pitchers...I'd agree.

I still think he's the best manager in the NL, but he did take advantage of those rules better than most. Remember the 1 hitter Wade Miley faced before Woodruff came in and pitched into the 6th(with Burnes taking over). Got the Dodgers to put all their right handed hitters in the lineup.

Then Miley started the next night and was still lights out.

 

Same series the Dodgers(who there were also whispers about them cheating that year) hit two huge HRs off Jeffress splitter, one of the most dominant pitches in the league that year).

Game2 Brewers up 3-1 in the 7th. Bring in Jeffress-Walks in a run, then gets a DP ball.

8th inning, gives up a 2R HR on the splitter, blows the lead.

Game 7-Gives up a 3R HR in the 6th Inning on a splitter to Puig in the 6th inning.

 

All beside the point. He has to work around the margins to help the Brewers win and does it better than any other manager IMO.

[BrewerFan]

12 hours ago, Never Outhustled said:

It was in several articles after Attanasio bought the team. Brewers were in the 12-15 range. I don't know how the Brewers got saddled with such a bad TV deal, considering their viewership numbers. That's a mystery, a long with why they haven't sold a jersey add.

I've NEVER seen the Brewers in the 12-15 range. Attanasio got a new TV deal fairly quickly after buying the team and they got a boost in revenue(not sure it was due to Attanasio as I don't think he has that big of an impact).

It's about how much they can sell the commercials for. Large markets, more eyeballs, more revenue.

Smallest market and...I'd be really curious to see when they were in the top 12 in TV money or TV deal.

 

As for the patch, I think 7 of 30 had one coming into this year. And it'd be nice, but the Pads...with all the excitement around that team got 10M. The Brewers are likely looking at 3-4M a year if they find the right sponsor. 

 

I would genuinely be curious to see any source that suggests the Brewers TV deal was in the top 12-15 at any time in the last ~35 years. 

[torts]

8 hours ago, Never Outhustled said:

That's market size based on population, somewhat irrelevant to the actual demographics that impact baseball income. It's an outdated was to classify markets.

We're all waiting for you to provide facts and data to back your claim

[Playing Catch]

20 hours ago, Austin Tatious said:

Stearns, Counsell and Tod Johnson have been tremendous for the Brewers, the best leadership we’ve ever had in terms of developing an organization for sustained success.  You can nitpick a decision here and there but that’s beside the point.  What they’ve done is set in motion organizational philosophies, structure and functionalities that have allowed the Brewers to succeed despite market size and keep it going.  

Unless you’re a Ryan Braun level guy, our young players come up and take their lumps.  Burnes, Woody, Peralta et al.  Now we are working in Turang, Frelick and Wiemer and are still in first place.  Add Black, Chourio, Gasser, among others, next year.

We have lost Stearns but we can maintain the organizational philosophies he’s put in place.  Hopefully we can hang on to Johnson and Counsell.   Murphy would slide into the Counsell role but he’s the best manager here of our lifetimes.  He’s still young so hopefully they can work it out.  

I agree with this, and I believe, too, that it is a reflection of ownership. Attanasio is one of the best owners the Brewers could hope for. Despite being one of, if not the smallest media markets in MLB, and him being comparatively less wealthy than most professional sports team owners, and responsible to the other investors in the club, they've managed to win on the field and at the same time, invest in a competitive infrastructure (minors/scouting/PHX complex/front office) that will help the team stay competitive going forward.

The guy's barely took a bad step since taking over the team. It baffles me when people don't respect what he's done.

(I reserve the right to hate him forever if he moves the team)

[Team Canada]

7 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

As for the patch, I think 7 of 30 had one coming into this year. And it'd be nice, but the Pads...with all the excitement around that team got 10M. The Brewers are likely looking at 3-4M a year if they find the right sponsor. 

I abhor the uni advertisements. And for a few million a year, totally not worth it.

[Jopal78]

15 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

I abhor the uni advertisements. And for a few million a year, totally not worth it.

I agree I don’t want to see a big patch for Northwestern Mutual etc on the jersey.
 

Then again they’ve already had Nike ads on the right clavicle for years, and it seems MLB and the NFL are the last major sports leagues to not have embraced ads on the shirts. So as much as I don’t like it, for a team like the Brewers it probably makes sense to embrace the ad, get the extra revenue before the ads become pervasive 

 

[BrewerFan]

26 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

I abhor the uni advertisements. And for a few million a year, totally not worth it.

Well...I'm fine with them as they wear little patches on their uniforms all the time. If Harley were to do it, I doubt anyone would care. Or Miller. 

Do we even know if anyone is interested though? 

I don't really know enough about where the Brewers are and who may have approached them to have enough of an opinion. 

I'm surprised anyone does...beyond just being against the idea altogether, but getting upset because we haven't done it seems silly.

[brewers888]

Does anyone have any information on why Arnold has not been extended. We know that Counsell basically has an open offer to have his contract extended but has not decided if he wants to continue managing but have heard nothing about the status of Arnold whose contract ends after the season. With many possible openings after the season we should have locked Arnold up by now and the future of this front office is an open question until we hear about a new contract for this GM.

[sveumrules]

26 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Does anyone have any information on why Arnold has not been extended. We know that Counsell basically has an open offer to have his contract extended but has not decided if he wants to continue managing but have heard nothing about the status of Arnold whose contract ends after the season. With many possible openings after the season we should have locked Arnold up by now and the future of this front office is an open question until we hear about a new contract for this GM.

Maybe he hasn't been extended because Mark A thinks his handling of Hiura has been inexcusable.

[Jastro]

When Matt Arnold pulled his name from consideration from the Mets' GM opening, Jon Heyman said that Arnold signed an extension. This was in Oct of '21. And the Brewers have been quoted many times that they don't disclose the contracts of their executives to the public.

Then I found this from a CBS article

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/brewers-president-david-stearns-steps-down-gm-matt-arnold-promoted/#:~:text=Arnold worked for the Tampa,Milwaukee for the foreseeable future.

My gut feels that it probably was longer than a 2 year extension, especially if they knew Stearns was probably going to walk when his contract ended.

[nate82]

14 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

It's about how much they can sell the commercials for. Large markets, more eyeballs, more revenue.

It is based more on median income and discretionary spending than the total number of people.  I believe Milwaukee is only ahead of Detroit when it comes to median household income.

 The total number of people is only a small part of the equation.  It factors in but median household income is far more important.  If the median household income is equal or very close then yes total population would win out.

You have to look at it at how much each view is worth.  

[TBBrewCrew]

Forbes has the 2022 TV Deal $$ and Viewership Data

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2023/03/23/baseballs-most-valuable-teams-2023-price-tags-are-up-12-despite-regional-tv-woes/?sh=4d013a116501

 

Brewers Ranks

$$: LAST (29th, no Blue Jays Data)

Viewership: 19th

$$/Viewer: 25th

 

 

[pitchleague]

11 hours ago, Team Canada said:

I abhor the uni advertisements. And for a few million a year, totally not worth it.

Wasn't there an article/story/rumor that came out when uniform patches were still rather new about how the Brewers were going to put local tavern patches on their uniforms.  I laughed so hard at the absurdity that I kind of wished that they had done it.  That would've been great!😄

[nate82]

5 minutes ago, pitchleague said:

I laughed so hard at the absurdity that I kind of wished that they had done it.  That would've been great!

That is one way to give back to the community.  Of all the advertisement ideas I wouldn't even be against this.