Rumor: Rockies Plan to Be Active at 2023 Trade Deadline

[CheezWizHed]

5 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

Zero chance of the Brewers adding Bryant ... terrible contract & poor production ... Rockies are stuck with him no doubt

If it wasn't for the contract... yeah, I'd take him now.  Even in a down year, he is an improvement.  If he can bounce back a bit by being in a playoff push, he could be very good. 

Maybe the Brewers can get some of the St. Louis/Arenado love.  Where we make a trade get some $$ to go with it?

[Jopal78]

7 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

Zero chance of the Brewers adding Bryant ... terrible contract & poor production ... Rockies are stuck with him no doubt

Bryant has a full no trade clause, even if the Rockies would pay to get rid of him and he wasn’t made of glass now,  he controls where he will play. 
 

Ditto Charlie Blackmon he has 10/5 rights, and gets to choose where he plays. 
 

Ryan McMahon is a perennial 3 bWAR+ player and is signed through 2027 at a AAV of less than 15 million. The Rockies wouldn’t be unjustified asking for Chourio in exchange. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

7 hours ago, edfunderburk said:

I'd be thrilled to add an or all of these three: McMahon, Grichuk, Cron (in that order) 

I say no to Blackmon, Moustakas, & Suter (suggested in other posts)

I'm with you on 5 of the 6. If they were willing to deal Blackmon I'd at least listen to what their thoughts were. He'd have to come real cheap though due to the age & the hand injury (things like that can linger). He also hasn't spent much time in the OF the last couple years.

Your top three are mine too.

[wiguy94]

6 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Ryan McMahon is a perennial 3 bWAR+ player and is signed through 2027 at a AAV of less than 15 million. The Rockies wouldn’t be unjustified asking for Chourio in exchange. 

LOL

[Jopal78]

3 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

LOL

I know, the prospect love here is off the charts. 

 The reality is in a league where Hunter Renfroe is a 0.4 WAR player and making 12 million dollars good players cost a lot of money or talent to acquire. 
 

There  was a lot of love around here for Antoine Kelly and in the end he was worth Matt Bush, a guy who put up an era of 6 as a Brewer and got released.

[nate82]

22 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Ryan McMahon is a perennial 3 bWAR+ player and is signed through 2027 at a AAV of less than 15 million. The Rockies wouldn’t be unjustified asking for Chourio in exchange. 

Sure and Keston Hiura would be the top prize for an Ohtani trade.

[wiguy94]

8 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Sure and Keston Hiura would be the top prize for an Ohtani trade.

The Keston, Tyrone, Small, Lauer, Urias trade for Ohtani is going to be crazy.

[Brewcrew82]

42 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

 

Ryan McMahon is a perennial 3 bWAR+ player and is signed through 2027 at a AAV of less than 15 million. The Rockies wouljdn’t be unjustified asking for Chourio in exchange. 

Yes they would. Chourio is a consensus top five prospect with a median surplus value of around 70, per BTV, 

McMahon has a median surplus value of -2.1, with his hitting #s benefitting from Coors Field and a double digit AAV. Even if you think that sells him short (and I think you could make the case it does). That's still an astronomical difference in trade value. 

[Brewcrew82]

20 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I know, the prospect love here is off the charts. 

 The reality is in a league where Hunter Renfroe is a 0.4 WAR player and making 12 million dollars good players cost a lot of money or talent to acquire. 
 

There  was a lot of love around here for Antoine Kelly and in the end he was worth Matt Bush, a guy who put up an era of 6 as a Brewer and got released.

The fact that you're throwing Antoine Kelly into the discussion to draw some kind of equivalence to Jackson Chourio is hilarious. Stop talking about minor league players. You yourself have admitted that you don't follow them. 

Also, nice using post-trade results to make a claim about a player's trade value. 

[Jopal78]

14 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Yes they would. Chourio is a consensus top five prospect with a median surplus value of around 70, per BTV, 

McMahon has a median surplus value of -2.1, with his hitting #s benefitting from Coors Field. Even if you think that sells him short (and I think you could make the case it does). That's still an astronomical difference in trade value. 

Like I said, when Renfroe is 0.4 WAR and 12 million dollars, Joc Pederson is 0.6 WAR and makes 19 million dollars, what does it cost to buy a 3 WAR player?  
 

Like it or not, that’s where the value comes from. Go buy a 3rd baseman who plays great defensive, hits and puts up an 3 WAR every year, it would be a 100 million dollar guarantee. Now a player like McMAhon the value goes even higher in a trade because the Rockies hold all the cards. He’s under contract through ‘27 they have zero reason to move  him except for being blown away.
 

Nonetheless, I do get a chuckle out of reading posts every July which state: “The Brewers should trade for X player, and they should be able to acquire him for chea/these 2nd rate Brewer minor leaguers/ etc. because X player isn’t  really  that good/valuable”.

[CheeseheadInQC]

McMahon for me falls into that weird zone of being not good enough to deal a king’s ransom for but too good and controllable for too long for the Rockies to accept anything less. I don’t think Chourio would be the ask, but it would be substantial, I imagine. 

[MVP2110]

I think it'd be interesting to see here, Who is the worst player you guys would be willing to trade Chourio for 1 for 1. BTV has Kevin Gausman & Francisco Alvarez as the two closest players rated in terms of value to him

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Like I said, when Renfroe is 0.4 WAR and 12 million dollars, Joc Pederson is 0.6 WAR and makes 19 million dollars, what does it cost to buy a 3 WAR player?  

Renfroe is getting paid 12 million (through arbitration, not as a free agent) because he has put up 2.4 WAR and 2.7 WAR the last two full seasons. That's the type of production the Angels were hoping to trade for.

Joc Pederson got 19 million on the QO because he posted a 145 OPS+ last year. The Giants were paying for something hopefully closer to that than 114 OPS+ he has delivered so far this year.

Why didn't you mention Kevin Kiermaier (2.9 WAR for $9M) or Jeimer Candelario (2.9 WAR for $5M) on the other end of the spectrum who both actually signed one year FA deals?

[Brewcrew82]

26 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Like I said, when Renfroe is 0.4 WAR and 12 million dollars, Joc Pederson is 0.6 WAR and makes 19 million dollars, what does it cost to buy a 3 WAR player?  
 

Like it or not, that’s where the value comes from. Go buy a 3rd baseman who plays great defensive, hits and puts up an 3 WAR every year, it would be a 100 million dollar guarantee. Now a player like McMAhon the value goes even higher in a trade because the Rockies hold all the cards. He’s under contract through ‘27 they have zero reason to move  him except for being blown away.
 

Nonetheless, I do get a chuckle out of reading posts every July which state: “The Brewers should trade for X player, and they should be able to acquire him for chea/these 2nd rate Brewer minor leaguers/ etc. because X player isn’t  really  that good/valuable”.

Hunter Renfroe was paid in arbitration this year based on being a 2.7 and 2.4 WAR player the last two seasons. Joc Pederson was tendered a qualifying offer based on his huge offensive season last year (144 wRC+).

Their current WAR, which you're listing, has zero to do with how they're currently being paid. I'm surprised you didn't include Stephen Strasburg who's getting paid $35 million annually. Surely, that's the cost of 34 innings and a -0.5 WAR the last four years, right? 

I get a chuckle out of reading posts from you seemingly every week in which you talk about prospects like you know them, when you've previously stated how you don't follow the minor leagues. There's a reason why everyone here is laughing at your claim that the Rockies would be justified in asking for Chourio in return for McMahon. 

[Jopal78]

28 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

The fact that you're throwing Antoine Kelly into the discussion to draw some kind of equivalence to Jackson Chourio is hilarious. Stop talking about minor league players. You yourself have admitted that you don't follow them. 

Also, nice using post-trade results to make a claim about a player's trade value. 

It has nothing to do with equivalency, it’s stating an observation; most poster’s here love the Brewers prospects then build them up in their minds to something beyond reality. Where even a mediocre prospect for a major league veteran is somehow an overpay. 
Just for laughs here’s  some comments about Antione Kelly when he was traded last July.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sveumrules]

11 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It has nothing to do with equivalency, it’s stating an observation; most poster’s here love the Brewers prospects then build them up in their minds to something beyond reality. Where even a mediocre prospect for a major league veteran is somehow an overpay. 
Just for laughs here’s  some comments about Antione Kelly when he was traded last July.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are conflating external evaluations with fan opinion. Of course fans were upset to lose Kelly, he is a talented arm with potential they'd been following for years through the minors.

But there is a big difference between being a relief prospect who gets traded because his 40 man deadline is coming up and the team doesn't think he is worth the spot yet (Kelly's situation) and a CF prospect who has been ranked among the very best prospects in the game (Chourio's situation).

[Brewcrew82]

11 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It has nothing to do with equivalency, it’s stating an observation; most poster’s here love the Brewers prospects then build them up in their minds to something beyond reality. Where even a mediocre prospect for a major league veteran is somehow an overpay. 
Just for laughs here’s  some comments about Antione Kelly when he was traded last July.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jackson Chourio is a consensus top 5 prospect in baseball. That’s not fan opinion, nor is it overvaluing him. That’s an incontrovertible fact. His trade value is a lot higher than Ryan McMahon’s. 

Your failure to grasp this is indicative of your stated lack of knowledge about prospects. Here’s a word of advice: stop talking about them. Then, you won’t sound as ridiculous as you are right now in saying that the Rockies would be justified asking for Chourio in exchange for McMahon.

[Jopal78]

7 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Jackson Chourio is a consensus top 5 prospect in baseball. That’s not fan opinion, nor is it overvaluing him. That’s an incontrovertible fact. His trade value is a lot higher than Ryan McMahon’s. 

Your failure to grasp this is indicative of your stated lack of knowledge about prospects. Here’s a word of advice: stop talking about them. Then, you won’t sound as ridiculous as you are right now in saying that the Rockies would be justified asking for Chourio in exchange for McMahon.

Where’s the civility police? 
 

Anyways, i’ll leave it at this. Anyone who thinks that the Rockies would trade McMahon this  July and not get premium talent in return isn’t being realistic.

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Where’s the civility police? 
 

Anyways, i’ll leave it at this. Anyone who thinks that the Rockies would trade McMahon this  July and not get premium talent in return isn’t being realistic.

Now, you're creating a straw-man. No one ever said that McMahon could be had for pennies. Just that his trade value is way less than Jackson Chourio's and that the Brewers would say "thanks, but no thanks" if the Rockies pressed for that. 

[Jopal78]

3 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Now, you're creating a straw-man. No one ever said that McMahon could be had for pennies. Just that his trade value is way less than Jackson Chourio's and that the Brewers would say "thanks, but no thanks" if the Rockies pressed for that. 

Straw Man, I can’t keep up with your Logic 101 skills! Hey! Guess what Matt Moore, Jurickson Profar, Andrew Benintendi and a Jackson Chourio have in common?…..

 

 

They were all #1 prospects 

[Brewcrew82]

21 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Straw Man, I can’t keep up with your Logic 101 skills! Hey! Guess what Matt Moore, Jurickson Profar, Andrew Benintendi and a Jackson Chourio have in common?…..

 

 

They were all #1 prospects 

Yes, and did you know they all had sky-high trade value when they were top prospects, as Chourio currently is? 

Also, if you need help: strawman: a fallacious argument that distorts the opposing stance in order to make it easier to attack. That's what you did when you implied that people aren't thinking McMahon could fetch nice prospects in return. He could potentially. Just not prospects the value/caliber of Chourio. 

[Team Canada]

4 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Where’s the civility police? 

Indeed, let's argue without attacking. We're all Brewers fans.

[CheeseheadInQC]

5 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Straw Man, I can’t keep up with your Logic 101 skills! Hey! Guess what Matt Moore, Jurickson Profar, Andrew Benintendi and a Jackson Chourio have in common?…..

 

 

They were all #1 prospects 

I agree with you that McMahon would be pricier than expected but I don’t think having two of your worst case scenarios (while obviously ignoring the superstars) include a guy who very well might still end up having a better career than McMahon and a pitcher who almost certainly would have had injuries not struck helps your case the way you think it does.

[Scooterfletcher]

I’ll trade a15-20 prospect for underwhelming but always average Cron at the deadline for sure 

[wallus]

The Rockies (and White Sox) are definitely teams we should be calling at the deadline. McMahon would fit our needs, defense mostly first philosophy and his contract is favorable. I have no idea why the Trade Values site lists him as a negative value and I certainly do not. We could also take on Grichuk if we want someone that is mainly a lefty mashing DH and the Rockies want to dump some salary. He isn't ideal for us because of his home/away splits and his poor defense but we have a major need for guys that can reliably hit a baseball.

The Brewers are in an interesting spot having 2 guys that are young and have had Major League success but are struggling this year. It would not shock me to see the team move Lauer and/or Urias if a team thinks they can "fix" them. I think Urias would be a great fit for the Rockies personally.

Here is my Trade Proposal:

Brewers: McMahon and Grichuk

Rockies: Urias, Small and Mendez

My New lineup

Yelich (LF)

Contreras (C)

McMahon (3B)

Adames (SS)

Tellez (1B)

Grichuk/Hiura (DH)

Anderson/Perkins (RF)

Miller/Turang (2B)

Wiemer (CF)

End of games put Turang in at 2B and Miller at 1B for defense. DFA Winker and Tapia, send down Jones.