Brewers Acquire Carlos Santana from Pirates

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

Santana to 1B, Owen Miller probably takes over at 2B and Turang goes to AAA to make room for Santana. There is an open 40 man spot, we shall see who goes when they activate Justin Wilson, could be Jahmai Jones, Winker, or maybe even Mejia

No thanks to Owen Miller getting regular ABs anywhere on the field now that they at least have a competent 1B on the roster.  Like the trade simply because it fills a glaring hole on the position player roster.  Turang has hit plenty well enough since being brought back up (0.642 OPS largely driven by surges in both his walk rate and slugging) to be sent back down to allow Miller more playing time (sub-400 OPS in the last two weeks with pretty regular playing time, not much better over a longer sample since end of May).

I think Rowdy actually returning to get meaningful playing time this season is already a bit of a stretch - plus he sucked before he got injured this season.  Tellez could wind up being a DH option if he does come back healthy and is swinging a good bat - but a mangled finger/hand injury isn't something that allows him to get any swings in while he's on the shelf over the next few weeks.  This trade eliminates the need for the Brewers to have to count on Tellez being what he was a couple seasons ago to actually get decent offensive production from 1B, which is good on all fronts.

I also don't think it shuts the door on a different trade or callup for the DH role, either. 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

it's a miniscule sample, but Santana's career numbers playing in Milwaukee are pretty damn solid, too...I think he's over a 1.000 OPS across 10 games.

Him not needing a platoon mate should help strengthen offensive depth options at other positions, too.

[bensheeps]

11 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I also don't think it shuts the door on a different trade or callup for the DH role, either. 

Agreed completely.

Would now like to see them find a RH bat to serve as a DH with some position flexibility to play somewhere on the field.

[markedman5]

I think Jones goes back down when they activate Santana.

Seems like Rowdy isn’t expected back until mid August so they have plenty of time to figure that out.

Anderson will return sooner most likely…..not sure they need 5 outfielders so Perkins could be sent back down then……we will see…..still more movement to come probably so no sense in spending too much time thinking about who stays and who goes.

[rickh150]

10 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

I know he played some short, but wasn’t Severino basically a corner infield prospect at this point? Regardless, this was ideal in my opinion, dealing from an area of strength. 

I’m not sure middle infield is a strength when we have no great candidates for SS or 2B for the next three seasons. Black has been moved to 3B, Turang isn’t hitting (yet), Urias is backtracking, and the many hyped prospects are low levels. So to me it is an area of perceived promising results, not a strength.

[Brewcrew82]

16 minutes ago, igor67 said:

Miller seems more likely to go the super sub route, but I don't see why he's stick in place of Turang. over the last 28 days Turang has a .642 OPS compared to Miller's .542. Miller's OPS for the season is only .683, so with the defensive advantage I think Turang sticks as the regular second basemen as you continue to see if these adjustments he's made are for real and that offense continues to rise.

Urias is heating up in AAA, too. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him up and starting on the MLB club very soon. 

Unless Miller starts hitting better, he’s in real danger of getting passed up for playing time in the infield.

[markedman5]

3 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

I’m not sure middle infield is a strength when we have no great candidates for SS or 2B for the next three seasons. Black has been moved to 3B, Turang isn’t hitting (yet), Urias is backtracking, and the many hyped prospects are low levels. So to me it is an area of perceived promising results, not a strength.

Well Severino wasn’t going to solve that problem……..the point is we delt from an area where we have lots of prospects who are similar or more highly thought of then the guy we just moved.

[brewerfan82]

Has anyone heard any updates on Ruf? If he's ready to come back soon, he could fill the DH spot against LHP (99 wRC+ vs. LHP in '23, 116 in '22, 165 in '21). Then pretty much throw/rotate anyone in there against righties. Even if Santana/Ruf/whoever only put up 90+ wRC+ from 1B and DH, it'd be a huge improvement over what we've done thus far (78 and 55 wRC+ respectively), especially against lefties (54 and 17 wRC+ respectively).

Of course I'd love to pick up a 3B and/or OF bat that could also rotate in at DH still, but Santana really was a nice pickup to start stabilizing this offense. Get Woody back in the rotation and let's do this thing!

[IntentionalHBP1]

I mean it’s a trade so that’s something. It’s an upgrade sure but not by much. 

[JefferyLeonard]

9 minutes ago, IntentionalHBP1 said:

I mean it’s a trade so that’s something. It’s an upgrade sure but not by much. 

Thank you, this is exactly my thought. I mean I knew I'd come here seeing people excited about this move, but it's not much more than a "meh" move. Is it better than what they had, sure(that's not saying much) Is it hugely impactful? Not even close. I'd bet anything there will be better hitters(by a substantial margin) acquired at the deadline by clubs(not the brewers obviously). 

[CheeseheadInQC]

24 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

I’m not sure middle infield is a strength when we have no great candidates for SS or 2B for the next three seasons. Black has been moved to 3B, Turang isn’t hitting (yet), Urias is backtracking, and the many hyped prospects are low levels. So to me it is an area of perceived promising results, not a strength.

It is more of a case where you have a ton of prospects of a similar or slightly higher level and only so much playing time to go around. There are only so many infield spots in Wisconsin and Carolina. 

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Thank you, this is exactly my thought. I mean I knew I'd come here seeing people excited about this move, but it's not much more than a "meh" move. Is it better than what they had, sure(that's not saying much) Is it hugely impactful? Not even close. I'd bet anything there will be better hitters(by a substantial margin) acquired at the deadline by clubs(not the brewers obviously). 

The Brewers have gotten -1.7 WAR from 1B this year, worst in MLB.

If they had gotten Santana's 1.0 WAR instead, their division lead would likely be a couple two tree game bigger.

That's pretty impactful.

[markedman5]

 

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Thank you, this is exactly my thought. I mean I knew I'd come here seeing people excited about this move, but it's not much more than a "meh" move. Is it better than what they had, sure(that's not saying much) Is it hugely impactful? Not even close. I'd bet anything there will be better hitters(by a substantial margin) acquired at the deadline by clubs(not the brewers obviously). 

Since June 1st here has been the Brewers' production at 1B: .186/.233/.241, 27 wRC+. (Worst in baseball).

Now, here's Santana's production during the same timeframe .244/.319/.470, 112 wRC+.

It doesn't have to be a "big name" to be a big upgrade. 

[Axman59]

Santana at 1st and Hiura at DH would be a pretty low cost way to add some juice to the lineup right now.

[markedman5]

 

[Jopal78]

49 minutes ago, igor67 said:

Miller seems more likely to go the super sub route, but I don't see why he's stick in place of Turang. over the last 28 days Turang has a .642 OPS compared to Miller's .542. Miller's OPS for the season is only .683, so with the defensive advantage I think Turang sticks as the regular second basemen as you continue to see if these adjustments he's made are for real and that offense continues to rise.

You could be right, Turang is having his best month but has been the weakest link offensively on the infield and is the youngest, but it’d be just as easy to ship Toro out or DFA Jones.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I hope his walkup song should be something from Peter Frampton or Jimi Hendrix, just to get everyone's wheels turning upstairs!

[nate82]

2 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

The Brewers have gotten -1.7 WAR from 1B this year, worst in MLB.

If they had gotten Santana's 1.0 WAR instead, their division lead would likely be a couple two tree game bigger.

That's pretty impactful.

Not to mention you don't need to acquire all star talent to get an improvement.  The Braves did this in 2021 by acquiring 0 All Star talent and yet won the WS.

The biggest trade Sherzer and Turner didn't improve the Dodgers all that much and they didn't make it to the WS and lost to the team that didn't get an All Star type of talent at the deadline. 

There are other examples of this also. 

[homer]

He's a switch hitter with fairly equal splits. Decent bench bat when not starting.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, nate82 said:

Not to mention you don't need to acquire all star talent to get an improvement.  The Braves did this in 2021 by acquiring 0 All Star talent and yet won the WS.

The biggest trade Sherzer and Turner didn't improve the Dodgers all that much and they didn't make it to the WS and lost to the team that didn't get an All Star type of talent at the deadline. 

There are other examples of this also. 

Not to mention, assuming everything goes well with these next two rehab starts, the Brewers will be adding a literal all-star to the team in Brandon Woodruff.

[JefferyLeonard]

3 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Not to mention, assuming everything goes well with these next two rehab starts, the Brewers will be adding a literal all-star to the team in Brandon Woodruff.

Sure, that helps the PITCHING(which was fine already btw), but Woody doesn't help the lineup. I said, Santana is better than what they had, sure, but that isn't saying much. I guess everyone's definition of "hugely impactful or "needle moving" is different. I guess I'm not surprised that some here consider this move "hugely impactful".(simply because it was better then what they had) 😐 As I said, I'd bet anything, their will be many bigger bats then him acquired by the deadline. This will likely be all the Brewers do as well, except maybe add a reliever(which every time they have at the deadline, they have been awful). Look at it like this, All Santana really does is put a band aid on a gaping wound. 

[Bulldogboy]

Not a huge move but given how pathetic the lineup is and has been it feels like one. Definitely a big upgrade on D. Now just get the lineup set up with Frelick leading off Contreras second Yelich third Santana cleaning up and Adames 5th and it's not too bad. Still need a outfielder but I think they find one.

[Brewcrew82]

9 minutes ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Sure, that helps the PITCHING(which was fine already btw), but Woody doesn't help the lineup. I said, Santana is better than what they had, sure, but that isn't saying much. I guess everyone's definition of "hugely impactful or "needle moving" is different. I guess I'm not surprised that some here consider this move "hugely impactful".(simply because it was better then what they had) 😐 As I said, I'd bet anything, their will be many bigger bats then him acquired by the deadline. This will likely be all the Brewers do as well, except maybe add a reliever(which every time they have at the deadline, they have been awful). Look at it like this, All Santana really does is put a band aid on a gaping wound. 

Yes. Better pitching would in fact help, considering Burnes and a healthy Woodruff back to back (to go with a shutdown bullpen) would be perhaps the single biggest reason why this team would have a shot at advancing in the postseason...

You just don't get it do you? All you care about is the "name". "Oh there will be many bigger bats than him acquired by the deadline!" But, I just demonstrated to you how significant an upgrade it is from what has been BY FAR the worst 1B production in the majors over the last two months (27 wRC+ vs. 112 wRC for Santana). And we didn't have to sacrifice any defense nor our top 30 prospects to do so!

[nate82]

1 minute ago, JefferyLeonard said:

Sure, that helps the PITCHING(which was fine already btw), but Woody doesn't help the lineup. I said, Santana is better than what they had, sure, but that isn't saying much. I guess everyone's definition of "hugely impactful or "needle moving" is different. I guess I'm not surprised that some here consider this move "hugely impactful".(simply because it was better then what they had) 😐 As I said, I'd bet anything, their will be many bigger bats then him acquired by the deadline. This will likely be all the Brewers do as well, except maybe add a reliever(which every time they have at the deadline, they have been awful). Look at it like this, All Santana really does is put a band aid on a gaping wound. 

The Braves replaced Acuna's production in 2021 when he went down with multiple band aids.  Acquiring all star talent is not needed.  You can acquire players that improve your situation moderately and have it be a better move.  In 2021 which trades would you have done if you were the Braves acquiring 4 OF's (Pederson, Soler, Duval and Rosario) versus Bryant or Turner and Scherzer?  The acquiring of Pederson, Soler, Duval and Rosario basically won the WS for the Braves in 2021.  The Giants acquiring Bryant got them a divisional title but were beat out by the Dodgers.  The Dodgers then get killed by the Braves in 6 games. 

Sometimes giving up premium talent for all stars is just not worth it.  The return on investment for the Braves was far better than what the Dodgers and Giants got in return.