Orioles Acquire Corbin Burnes for INF Joey Ortiz, LHP DL Hall and 2024 Competitive Balance Pick

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

We’re unequivocally declaring the original Hader deal to be a bust when Robert Gasser, who we have 6+ years of control of and who is one of the top LHP prospects in baseball, hasn’t even made his MLB debut?

Yeesh…..

Well, if he turns out to be as good as you think he will be, then I'll agree with you.

I'm not bashing the Hader trade so much as I'm just saying, the original trade doesn't look that great on paper.  If Gasser does what we hope, then I'll jump right on board.

Also, along with the players that were involved with the original deal, we can't forget the psychological toll that trade took on the team.  They missed the playoffs, and that trade had a little something to do with that fact.

[stalton]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

Trevor Bauer is the guy to get. He can be a top of the rotation starter and he will almost certainly come cheaper than his talent level would suggest. The guy was blackmailed and deserves a chance to pitch in MLB again and we should be the team to give him that opportunity.

I probably could go on a long tangent of the inconsistency of how the MLB and other major sports treat off field issues. While I agree Bauer deserves another shot especially since he's made it public that he would be ok with a very heavy incentive based contact, I find it damning that from a PR standpoint that no team wants to touch him with a 10 foot pole. I understand that it only takes 1 team but so far only a couple of teams have kicked the tires but it's more like they saw the car from a distance.

[TURBO]

8 minutes ago, stalton said:

I probably could go on a long tangent of the inconsistency of how the MLB and other major sports treat off field issues. While I agree Bauer deserves another shot especially since he's made it public that he would be ok with a very heavy incentive based contact, I find it damning that from a PR standpoint that no team wants to touch him with a 10 foot pole. I understand that it only takes 1 team but so far only a couple of teams have kicked the tires but it's more like they saw the car from a distance.

How do you know this?

[StearnsFTW]

I'd sign Bauer in an instant.

[stalton]

56 minutes ago, TURBO said:

How do you know this?

Twitter post based off a podcast he did.

https://x.com/NYYUNDERGROUND/status/1753082917654327333?s=20

and this article talking about Bauer. I had just done a quick Google search.

https://rumbunter.com/posts/pittsburgh-pirates-why-the-team-should-stay-away-from-trevor-bauer

Edited February 3, 2024 by stalton
Forgot a link

[RobertCrawley]

I want to win and I love the Brewers, But if they sign Bauer, I'm seriously going to think of finding another team. 

[rickh150]

I see Burnes trade as a continued judgment on Burnes, himself. I think Arnold legitimately sees the return and eventual team by Opening Day as better THIS season. Not that the rotation is better now, of course, but He must think he can add to the staff someone similar or even better than Burnes…some trade must be up his sleeve or close to done.  Has to be or the trade for Hoskins makes less sense.
From shading him in arby to doing this trade after getting Hoskins, Arnold must think Burnes is trending downward and should be replaceable THIS season. And he likely thinks Ortiz is a huge upgrade at 2B. 

[TURBO]

34 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Has to be or the trade for Hoskins makes less sense.
 

We didn't trade for Hoskins.

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, RobertCrawley said:

I want to win and I love the Brewers, But if they sign Bauer, I'm seriously going to think of finding another team. 

You do know that Bauer wasn't found guilty on any charge right?

We've had actual criminals on our team in the recent past, and yet you stuck with this team then, right?

 

[rickh150]

40 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

I see Burnes trade as a continued judgment on Burnes, himself. I think Arnold legitimately sees the return and eventual team by Opening Day as better THIS season. Not that the rotation is better now, of course, but He must think he can add to the staff someone similar or even better than Burnes…some trade must be up his sleeve or close to done.  Has to be or the signing for Hoskins makes less sense.
From shading him in arby to doing this trade after getting Hoskins, Arnold must think Burnes is trending downward and should be replaceable THIS season. And he likely thinks Ortiz is a huge upgrade at 2B. 

 

[rickh150]

6 minutes ago, TURBO said:

We didn't trade for Hoskins.

Sorry…signing of Hoskins. Still makes little sense unless we get help in the rotation..

[CheeseheadInQC]

Was I the only one who thought signing Hoskins made sense whether Burnes and Adames were traded or not? It seems like the Brewers are trying to jump straight from a playoff team to the final year of a rebuild thanks to the amount of young talent on the team and in the high minors. A Hoskins type deal makes a ton of sense in that case. He’s not blocking a prospect. If the team is a year ahead of schedule, he helps them win. If not, he could be an attractive trade piece at the deadline. 

[RobertCrawley]

1 hour ago, TURBO said:

You do know that Bauer wasn't found guilty on any charge right?

We've had actual criminals on our team in the recent past, and yet you stuck with this team then, right?

 

It's not just that one case. And it's not just that one issue. 

No freakin' thanks.

[Team Canada]

Don't circumvent the cuss filter by using stand in words, just leave the word out.

[bigred]

49 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

It's not just that one case. And it's not just that one issue. 

No freakin' thanks.

Some of the other players we've had with character issues, were also because of more than 1 instance. Not wanting catch lightning in a bottle with Bauer, just because of his past, is pure hypocrisy. 

[RobertCrawley]

37 minutes ago, bigred said:

Some of the other players we've had with character issues, were also because of more than 1 instance. Not wanting catch lightning in a bottle with Bauer, just because of his past, is pure hypocrisy. 

You have your value system about this guy. I have mine. Why don't we leave it there.

[KeithStone53151]

9 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Urias has put up a 7.2 WAR the last three seasons....Not comparable to Hernan Perez whatsoever lol

I'm not changing your argument or moving the goalposts. You have literally said that Ortiz is a bust who can't hit MLB pitching because he's 25 and the Orioles didn't put him in their infield. 

Nowhere did I say either of those things. Look back if you want, you won't find it. I said they are trending towards a bust considering their previous prospect pedigree, and that the Orioles probably don't think he can hit at the MLB level as he wasn't given a chance to play over a guy that posted 607 ops in 350 PA. The upper minors are filled with dudes that can post 800-850 ops in AAA but can't crack 650 at MLB. It would be far from unusual for Ortiz to be similar.

[KeithStone53151]

10 hours ago, brewers888 said:

Yes Arnold made a great trade bailing Stearns out of what was a very bad trade. Stearns gets no credit for the Contreras deal and if it wasn't for Arnold as well as Oakland being stupid the Hader deal would have gone down as a total dud.

There is a strong possibility in this case that the prospect gurus were way off on ruiz value. That trade Arnold made looks so incredibly stupid for Oakland unless Ruiz had a lot more value than general fan consensus/MLB pipeline thought. Ruiz having more value also makes the hader trade better...assuming that's accurate on ruiz.

That said, it certainly seems like we're struggling to sell players as needed for good value. I wonder if the reason we got these 2 players is we chose more MLB ready options to try to maintain a competitive window. Half of MLB at minimum should have been checking in on burnes, its really hard to fathom that we couldn't get better offers. I do wonder if we could have gotten better prospects further from the majors from someone else but chose this package instead.

[Redd Vencher]

12 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Nowhere did I say either of those things. Look back if you want, you won't find it. I said they are trending towards a bust considering their previous prospect pedigree, and that the Orioles probably don't think he can hit at the MLB level as he wasn't given a chance to play over a guy that posted 607 ops in 350 PA. The upper minors are filled with dudes that can post 800-850 ops in AAA but can't crack 650 at MLB. It would be far from unusual for Ortiz to be similar.

Jorge Mateo is a defensive specialist utility player coming off a 2.9 fWAR season in 2022. Ortiz came debuted April 27th to fill in for a weekend series with a double header after only 187 PA in AAA over 2022-2023. He returned May 15th to fill in for Mateo while he was on the IL.  Are you going to keep that guy up all year as the 2nd utility or give him everyday at bats when you have a vet you can keep in that role?

[brewcrewdue80]

Since Turang filled up savant 1/2 as worst hitter in 2023 I'd option him to aaa and let ortiz play 2b. It's not like Turang had a small sample size. Maybe monasterio plays 2b and ortiz 3b.  You are rolling back some of Turang clock then.

[Redd Vencher]

3 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Since Turang filled up savant 1/2 as worst hitter in 2023 I'd option him to aaa and let ortiz play 2b. It's not like Turang had a small sample size. Maybe monasterio plays 2b and ortiz 3b.  You are rolling back some of Turang clock then.

They already rolled Turang's clock last year when he was sent to the minors. I could see Turang needing to spend time in AAA this year, but that'd be for performance reasons not service time manipulation.

[brewcrewdue80]

9 hours ago, Redd Vencher said:

They already rolled Turang's clock last year when he was sent to the minors. I could see Turang needing to spend time in AAA this year, but that'd be for performance reasons not service time manipulation.

Basically being the 2nd worst to 5th worst producing batter is the reason to send him down. The clock rewind just happens as a result.  Ortiz, Monasterio,  and Black cover his send down.

 

[Thurston Fluff]

13 hours ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

Was I the only one who thought signing Hoskins made sense whether Burnes and Adames were traded or not? It seems like the Brewers are trying to jump straight from a playoff team to the final year of a rebuild thanks to the amount of young talent on the team and in the high minors. A Hoskins type deal makes a ton of sense in that case. He’s not blocking a prospect. If the team is a year ahead of schedule, he helps them win. If not, he could be an attractive trade piece at the deadline. 

You're not the only one. I've been saying all along this is a move to help now and not hurt later. The Brewers plan to win year in and year out. By definition that doesn't include all in years but also doesn't include not trying to win years.

[Scooterfletcher]

15 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Sorry…signing of Hoskins. Still makes little sense unless we get help in the rotation..

So it makes more sense to just go with Bauers at 1b in 2024 solely because we traded Corbin?  You do know that we are still trying to win and not tanking despite the trade, right?

[KeithStone53151]

11 hours ago, Redd Vencher said:

Jorge Mateo is a defensive specialist utility player coming off a 2.9 fWAR season in 2022. Ortiz came debuted April 27th to fill in for a weekend series with a double header after only 187 PA in AAA over 2022-2023. He returned May 15th to fill in for Mateo while he was on the IL.  Are you going to keep that guy up all year as the 2nd utility or give him everyday at bats when you have a vet you can keep in that role?

350 PA is a lot for a utility player...especially if said player missed a chunk of time on the IL. Most regulars don't see 600. WAR also overvalues defense, and worth noting Ortiz is supposed to be a very good defender. It's certainly not like you think you might be swapping in hiura caliber defense but bringing him up.