2025 Defensive Alignment

[Brewcrew82]

Was just thinking about how our defensive alignment is a little more unsettled than usual heading into ST....

Catcher is straightforward with Contreras. But after that, it gets a lot more fuzzy...

First base looks like Hoskins for now. But do you really want him playing the field that much?  Is there a better option out there in FA and/or through trade? 

Second base ideally should belong to the Platinum Glover in Turang.  But does Turang move to SS with Willy gone? 2B is also probably Durbin's best position, and you have to find him a place on the infield as of right now...

Ortiz is the presumed favorite to start SS, but might the Brewers prefer to keep him at 3B where he thrived last year? In that case, could Turang be the one who takes over the SS position from Willy? 

Durbin is penciled in at third base right now according to most projections, but might he not be a better fit for 2B? 

Is Yelich healthy enough to play left field? 

Sal won the GG in RF, but Chourio was every bit as elite when he played there according to the metrics. Do you defer to your young stud? 

[Brewcrew82]

Also, here's some food for thought: 

Jackson Chourio (2024 OF): 6 OAA, 12 DRS, 9.4 UZR/150, 3.1 DEF

Garrett Mitchell: (2024 OF): 2 OAA, 6 DRS, 7.9 UZR/150, 1.3 DEF.

There's like a serious case to be made to move Chourio to CF.....

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

10 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Also, here's some food for thought: 

Jackson Chourio (2024 OF): 6 OAA, 12 DRS, 9.4 UZR/150, 3.1 DEF

Garrett Mitchell: (2024 OF): 2 OAA, 6 DRS, 7.9 UZR/150, 1.3 DEF.

There's like a serious case to be made to move Chourio to CF.....

There is no denying Mitchell's defensive chops. He's an absolute stud out there. Staying healthy is the key.

Don't forget about Perkins, either. He's another elite defender.

[wibadgers23]

11 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

First base looks like Hoskins for now. But do you really want him playing the field that much?  Is there a better option out there in FA and/or through trade?

Probably not, unfortunately.  It's Hoskins and all we can do is hope that he has a bounce back year.  Perhaps Tyler Black gets some playing time there if Hoskins struggles?

 

11 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Is Yelich healthy enough to play left field?

Yelich should only touch the outfield grass in case of an emergency.  We have three fantastic defensive outfielders in Chourio, Mitchell, and Frelick and Perkins as the backup.  Coming off back surgery, Yelich needs to be the full-time DH and I don't care if that's not what he wants.  

[sveumrules]

I think Yelich will be primarily DH, but still play some LF against LHP and/or when Contreras is in the DH spot.

[Playing Catch]

I like this topic. I'll like it more when we have more solidity as to the options.

I typed out a long, lame response about tactical switches, but I think based on what we know now, the defensive alignment will look a lot like last season, with Ortiz sliding to short, and DurDunn playing 3rd, with Bauers/Hoskins/Black at first. I agree with sveumrules that Yelich is the primary DH. I think this has more to do with the depth of our outfield than anything. I'd rather have Chourio in left than Yelich, and I'd rather bat Mitchell/Perkins than Bauers/Black.

In terms of whether or not Chourio should play center, I don't care to argue about it. My belief is that Mitchell and Perkins are better than Chourio, but if Chourio is in center, fine. He's a great defensive outfielder.

[TURBO]

42 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

Yelich should only touch the outfield grass in case of an emergency.  We have three fantastic defensive outfielders in Chourio, Mitchell, and Frelick and Perkins as the backup.  Coming off back surgery, Yelich needs to be the full-time DH and I don't care if that's not what he wants.  

Agreed.

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

There is no denying Mitchell's defensive chops. He's an absolute stud out there. Staying healthy is the key.

Don't forget about Perkins, either. He's another elite defender.

He’s definitely a good fielder. All of them are.

Perkins is a step above the rest, and should be playing CF any time he’s out there. 

I just wanted to point out that the 20 year old only a few years removed from playing in the infield was a lot better than people think compared to the 26 year old Mitchell. And it’s probably worth considering moving him there. If you do, you’re only increasing Chourio’s potential value.

[wiguy94]

19 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Also, here's some food for thought: 

Jackson Chourio (2024 OF): 6 OAA, 12 DRS, 9.4 UZR/150, 3.1 DEF

Garrett Mitchell: (2024 OF): 2 OAA, 6 DRS, 7.9 UZR/150, 1.3 DEF.

There's like a serious case to be made to move Chourio to CF.....

The issue with this is that 3 of the 4 stats are accumulation stats not rate based and the one that is rate based is an outdated defensive metric.

Chourio - 1207 innings, 12 DRS, 6 OAA, 7 FRV, 9.9 DRP

Mitchell's MLB career - 788 innings, 10 DRS, 4 OAA, 5 FRV, 3.0 DRP

Mitchell's 1207 innings pace - 15 DRS, 6 OAA, 8 FRV, 4.6 DRP

[Brewcrew82]

50 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

The issue with this is that 3 of the 4 stats are accumulation stats not rate based and the one that is rate based is an outdated defensive metric.

Chourio - 1207 innings, 12 DRS, 6 OAA, 7 FRV, 9.9 DRP

Mitchell's MLB career - 788 innings, 10 DRS, 4 OAA, 5 FRV, 3.0 DRP

Mitchell's 1207 innings pace - 15 DRS, 6 OAA, 8 FRV, 4.6 DRP

Sure, but even then, there’s a legitimate case to be made…

I’d at least give him some time there in ST. 

[wiguy94]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Sure, but even then, there’s a legitimate case to be made…

I’d at least give him some time there in ST. 

Unless Frelick gets traded between now and ST I don't think you'll see Chourio get CF reps considering Perkins, Mitchell, and Frelick all had CF priority over Chourio last year.

[markedman5]

Chourio didn’t look comfortable in CF when he played there in spring training last season. Obviously that doesn’t mean he won’t ever be moved there but it seems management and Murph feel more comfortable with Mitchell.

I’m going to assume that GM will continue to get the bulk of the innings in CF which is fine by me.

The other issues are the ones I’m interested in…….i hope they don’t move Turang but as you said at this point lots of questions.

I still can’t believe they aren’t going to bring in another option to compete with Durbin.

Yelich is going to play some outfield…….Contreras will be DH at least 2 days a week.

 

 

[ClosetBrewerFan]

18 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

I still can’t believe they aren’t going to bring in another option to compete with Durbin

 

 

Today is January 28.  Based on history, the Brewers off-season is just getting started

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, markedman5 said:

I still can’t believe they aren’t going to bring in another option to compete with Durbin.

Frelick

[Playing Catch]

If the Brewers lost Mitchell and Perkins, does anyone else think it would take Chourio less than a week to get comfortable out there? I mean the guy played 200+ games in center in the minors.

I just don't understand why you @Brewcrew82 need him in center so much. If you think he's better than the other options, that's fine. I guess we just agree to disagree.

If you think his playing a corner has hurt his "value," I will also just need to disagree. The Braves moved Acuna to RF in favor of Michael Harris II, and no other team would think twice about putting Acuna back in CF if he was their best CF.

[igor67]

The issue about value here is that playing CF probably improves Jackson's individual WAR, but if you are actually playing the exact same OFers then you are also deflating their value and probably the teams total since Garrett and Blake are probably the slightly better defenders.

 

[Playing Catch]

 

14 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Unless Frelick gets traded between now and ST I don't think you'll see Chourio get CF reps considering Perkins, Mitchell, and Frelick all had CF priority over Chourio last year.

Chourio is only 21 this season. He very well may play CF this spring and prove that he's better out there than anyone else on the roster. If so, that's great! He'll be their everyday centerfielder. But until he's the best option, he shouldn't play there.

[Lathund]

On 1/28/2025 at 4:50 AM, Brewcrew82 said:

Also, here's some food for thought: 

Jackson Chourio (2024 OF): 6 OAA, 12 DRS, 9.4 UZR/150, 3.1 DEF

Garrett Mitchell: (2024 OF): 2 OAA, 6 DRS, 7.9 UZR/150, 1.3 DEF.

There's like a serious case to be made to move Chourio to CF.....

I'm sure Chourio would be a very good CF, but at the same time you can't really compare the defensive metrics from a CF to a LF/RF straight up like this. Firstly because, as another poster pointed out, these are mostly counting stats, so playing time matters. The other is that they're all stats compared to other players at the position, and that CF is harder position. A higher DRS/OAA/FRV at RF compared to someone else at CF doesn't tell you much.

I expect Mitchell to play CF most days (Perkins against some lefties) and to have a very good season if healthy. 

The only uncertainty is the infield. We know 2/3 guys who will play there for sure, and I think/hope there is yet one more move coming, most likely a trade. Even if they really like Durbin, you'd still want a better 4th option than Dunn/Monasterio IMO. But with the current roster, I think it'll be Ortiz at SS with Dunn and Durbin not in a strict platoon, but with elements thereof at 3B. I suspect Durbin is better at 2B than 3B and so I would probably go with Turang at SS instead, but that's just me guessing. I know many people are hesitant to move Turang due to the platinum glove at 2B, but if it gets the most out of everyone there I'd be fine with it. 

[Brewcrew82]

8 hours ago, igor67 said:

The issue about value here is that playing CF probably improves Jackson's individual WAR, but if you are actually playing the exact same OFers then you are also deflating their value and probably the teams total since Garrett and Blake are probably the slightly better defenders.

 

Blake is definitely a better defender. I’m not convinced Mitchell is, though. And all else being equal, I’ll go with the better hitter. 

Not sure Mitchell’s value would be depressed by moving him to RF, for instance. 

They’re so close defensively that I ultimately don’t expect them to do anything drastic, but I’d like to see them give Chourio reps in CF this spring. 

[endaround]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Blake is definitely a better defender. I’m not convinced Mitchell is, though. And all else being equal, I’ll go with the better hitter. 

Not sure Mitchell’s value would be depressed by moving him to RF, for instance. 

They’re so close defensively that I ultimately don’t expect them to do anything drastic, but I’d like to see them give Chourio reps in CF this spring. 

The Brewers have clearly shown they believe that the they believe the defensive spectrum of the  OF players are:

1. Mitchell

1a. Perkins

2. Frelick

3. Chourio

There is little reason to believe that is going to change, especially if Chourio fills out more.

 

[MVP2110]

10 minutes ago, endaround said:

The Brewers have clearly shown they believe that the they believe the defensive spectrum of the  OF players are:

1. Mitchell

1a. Perkins

2. Frelick

3. Chourio

There is little reason to believe that is going to change, especially if Chourio fills out more.

 

I'd even go as far as saying it's 

1. Perkins

2. Mitchell

3. Frelick

4. Chourio

Last year when Perkins played he played CF every time. If both Perkins & Mitchell played they moved Mitchell to RF

[Brewcrew82]

1 hour ago, endaround said:

The Brewers have clearly shown they believe that the they believe the defensive spectrum of the  OF players are:

1. Mitchell

1a. Perkins

2. Frelick

3. Chourio

There is little reason to believe that is going to change, especially if Chourio fills out more.

 

I would say they view Frelick and Chourio equally. They only moved Frelick to RF and Chourio to LF because Yelich got injured and Frelick had a stretch of poor performances in LF. Otherwise, Chourio was the NL GG favorite in RF for a good chunk of the season. 

[ClosetBrewerFan]

8 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I would say they view Frelick and Chourio equally. They only moved Frelick to RF and Chourio to LF because Yelich got injured and Frelick had a stretch of poor performances in LF. Otherwise, Chourio was the NL GG favorite in RF for a good chunk of the season. 

I agree.  I think Chourio is the fourth best OF on this team (but little separates them all) i also think chourio could have won a gold glove last year.  Both statements can be true, as odd as that may sound.  It's a nice problem to have, arguing which of your four outfielders is the better fielder.

[TURBO]

53 minutes ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

 It's a nice problem to have, arguing which of your four outfielders is the better fielder.

Absolutely.

It's too bad we will complicate things by throwing Yelich in LF even though the other 4 are way better fielders than he is.

Yelich either needs to learn 1B or strictly DH every game that Contreras isn't DHing...

[Playing Catch]

On 1/29/2025 at 11:04 AM, Lathund said:

I'm sure Chourio would be a very good CF, but at the same time you can't really compare the defensive metrics from a CF to a LF/RF straight up like this. Firstly because, as another poster pointed out, these are mostly counting stats, so playing time matters. The other is that they're all stats compared to other players at the position, and that CF is harder position. A higher DRS/OAA/FRV at RF compared to someone else at CF doesn't tell you much.

I also believe that the baseball world hasn't necessarily come to grips with how playing next to poor defenders, or excellent defenders, may impact those advanced metrics.

If a corner outfielder ranges deep into the gap and takes away a double, that looks awesome for their numbers, but if they are taking away a double, and the centerfielder is standing there, does that prevent the CF from getting the statistical bump from being able to make a great play? I'm not sure.