Brandon Woodruff did not have surgery, to start throwing program.

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Senzatela can give you length too. He didn't look great against the Padres and didn't pitch against the Dodgers at all.

The only real argument for Harrison is that he's a lefty capable of throwing 5 innings in one outing. But I just don't think anyone is going to let him do that. Even in an extra inning game, I think he'd be after all our leverage guys (we might not use both Hall and Ashby in a game), plus Romero, Patrick, Drohan, and Senzatela. Plus, depending on where you are in the series, you could use Gasser in that role.

Senzatela came in vs the Padres and they didn't hit a ball out of the IF in Gm1 and he ended up with 2 hits given up and a BB. Dustin Harris with a GB to 1B, then a GB up the middle by France. Those were 55 exit velo and 72. 

Gasser is your #3 starter, so you probably don't want to plan on using him in a long role. 

But again, the stronger argument for Harrison is... he's healthy and both these teams struggle vs LHPing. 

 

1 hour ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

I just don't think anyone trusts Harrison at all, anywhere near a leverage scenario. He's there to eat an inning or two in a blowout scenario. That's something Woody can do, and probably do better.

I don't know if Woody can give you two innings. He's thrown 2 Bullpens since he was told he needed another season ending surgery and then got lucky he didn't actually need that. 

You're going to the World Series. If you DO find yourself in a blowout situation... I don't know that it really matters, but I'd rather have a guy who could stay in there and eat it. You're probably limited to using Woody for 1 inning and hoping he can pitching well. 

They'd said he was throwing in the 80s, but hoped if it was a game, he'd be up in the 90s. I don't think you really want to be hoping for all that to fall right when you have legitimate arms who can throw and give you depth. 

[Gump]

Let’s just hire Big Woo as a pitching coach. 

[Opening Day]

2 hours ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

Fair point, but I think the Brewers are well-covered for that scenario.

Patrick didn't pitch in either playoff series. May threw like 2-3 innings in each. Harrison didn't pitch. Drohan threw 1. Senzatela can give you length too. He didn't look great against the Padres and didn't pitch against the Dodgers at all.

The only real argument for Harrison is that he's a lefty capable of throwing 5 innings in one outing. But I just don't think anyone is going to let him do that. Even in an extra inning game, I think he'd be after all our leverage guys (we might not use both Hall and Ashby in a game), plus Romero, Patrick, Drohan, and Senzatela. Plus, depending on where you are in the series, you could use Gasser in that role.

I just don't think anyone trusts Harrison at all, anywhere near a leverage scenario. He's there to eat an inning or two in a blowout scenario. That's something Woody can do, and probably do better.

I don't have access to the bullpens or the pitch data, but I'll say this:

In a situation where it's Patrick, May, Harrison, and Woodruff for 2-3 spots (depending on if we go with an extra position player), I think Harrison would be fourth on my list.

I dont trust Woodruff's shoulder at all.  But when hes healthy, none of those other guys have ever been better than him. *  If you told me they were all healthy and asked me who would I rather have over the course of a season, it might not be him because I doubt he holds up physically.   But if they were all healhty and I was asked who Id want for 1 or 2 innings over 7 games, its Woodruff.  Also, hes been such a good Brewer for so long it would be great to get him a ring on the WS roster.  But he'd have to be ready physically (currently, longterm doesn't matter for this), we dont need charity roster spots.

* for example:

May and Woodruff both missed 2024 with injuries

Era+ the last 2 seasons

May: 84, 85

Woodruff: 131, 141

 

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

12 hours ago, Opening Day said:

I dont trust Woodruff's shoulder at all.  But when hes healthy, none of those other guys have ever been better than him. *  If you told me they were all healthy and asked me who would I rather have over the course of a season, it might not be him because I doubt he holds up physically.   But if they were all healhty and I was asked who Id want for 1 or 2 innings over 7 games, its Woodruff.  Also, hes been such a good Brewer for so long it would be great to get him a ring on the WS roster.  But he'd have to be ready physically (currently, longterm doesn't matter for this), we dont need charity roster spots.

* for example:

May and Woodruff both missed 2024 with injuries

Era+ the last 2 seasons

May: 84, 85

Woodruff: 131, 141

 

For sure. 

I mean, I completely agree that Woody doesn't just get a spot because he's Woody. He's got to show he can throw competitive pitches. 

Ultimately, I just think he's going to be healthy enough to get a few guys out in the right spot. I trust him to do that more than Harrison, who, aside from a decent outing against STL, looked like he was totally lost for the last month. People were making Suppan comparisons, and they weren't wrong. 

Again, I like Harrison. I think he's going to bring value in the future. I just don't think he's ready to actually pitch in this World Series, unless it's a punt scenario. If people would rather have the punt than Woodruff, I get it. I'm just not sure you need a designated punter on the WS roster, especially since a bunch of other guys could do it if we needed them to.

[kestrel79]

I think it's going to be the exact same playoff roster as the last two rounds. But I'd love to be surprised.

[RobertCrawley]

All I want to know is Woodruff's velo.

[Jopal78]

32 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

All I want to know is Woodruff's velo.

It probably doesn’t really matter it will be either good enough where he can work his arsenal or it won’t and he’ll stay on the injured list. 

If Woodruff is able to throw the four seamer hard enough to maintain its vertical break along that along with his changeup and experience in “pitching;” he absolutely could get 3-6 outs in the middle of a game probably more reliably than Senzatela, Harrison or even Patrick (who like Harrison hasn’t pitched since 9/26).

If his four seamer doesn’t have enough gusto for the physics to fool batters he won’t make the roster. I’m sure the Brewers and Woodruff know where that point is, which is why he mentioned his next step is throwing to live  hitters. 
 

I’d be more concerned with his ability to go back to back games, and if adding Woodruff would jeopardize the pen in the Series if there was a lopsided game by not having say Harrison to simply absorb innings to save the other arms in a blow out

[RobertCrawley]

7 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It probably doesn’t really matter it will be either good enough where he can work his arsenal or it won’t and he’ll stay on the injured list. 

If Woodruff is able to throw the four seamer hard enough to maintain its vertical break along that along with his changeup and experience in “pitching;” he absolutely could get 3-6 outs in the middle of a game probably more reliably than Senzatela, Harrison or even Patrick (who like Harrison hasn’t pitched since 9/26).

If his four seamer doesn’t have enough gusto for the physics to fool batters he won’t make the roster. I’m sure the Brewers and Woodruff know where that point is, which is why he mentioned his next step is throwing to live  hitters. 
 

I’d be more concerned with his ability to go back to back games, and if adding Woodruff would jeopardize the pen in the Series if there was a lopsided game by not having say Harrison to simply absorb innings to save the other arms in a blow out

If his velo is not 93+, he should not be on the roster.

[shanedog19]

Let's assume his velocity is somewhere in the mid-90s and he's on the playoff roster. Would you rather start Woodruff, May or Drohan in game 4? I am going Woodruff all day long.

[sobomp3]

Did he even touch mid-90 this year? Either way if he’s in the low 90s I’d definitely start him over those choices. 

[bm1090]

He's not going to be stretched out. I don't think you could consider starting him.

But Woodruff or Harrison, who hasn't pitched in either of the first two series? Give me Woody. You're only gonna use his spot for 2-3 innings total in the world series in all likelihood. 

[markedman5]

Let him throw a simulated game of a couple of innings……..let the hitters tell you if he should be on the roster or not.

obviously if he’s throwing in the 80s it isn’t going to be an option……but with his command and off speed stuff…….92-94 should be enough for him to get hitters out.

[RobertCrawley]

1 hour ago, shanedog19 said:

Let's assume his velocity is somewhere in the mid-90s and he's on the playoff roster. Would you rather start Woodruff, May or Drohan in game 4? I am going Woodruff all day long.

I would have him start Game 4. It's possible that his top velo is 94 mph in the first inning, but 86 in the second inning. In which case, we call on Johnny Wholestaff.

[bm1090]

12 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

Let him throw a simulated game of a couple of innings……..let the hitters tell you if he should be on the roster or not.

obviously if he’s throwing in the 80s it isn’t going to be an option……but with his command and off speed stuff…….92-94 should be enough for him to get hitters out.

He was getting guys out at 88-90 earlier this year.

[RobertCrawley]

19 minutes ago, bm1090 said:

He was getting guys out at 88-90 earlier this year.

He did get guys out but he was throwing batting practice type pitches.

[owbc]

39 minutes ago, bm1090 said:

He was getting guys out at 88-90 earlier this year.

And that was with a full spring training ramp up.

I give it a 5% chance that he makes the roster. 

[RobertCrawley]

Woodruff's fastball was 88 when he started on April 30. There was clearly something wrong. Two months later, he came back for two great starts in June (22 and 28). In his outing on the Fourth of July, he pitched well for the first couple of innings, but when his pitch count hit 40 or so, his velo started ticking down until the 3rd inning, when he his velocity was back in the 80s.  BM1090 is right. He was doing a great job getting guys out with the changeup on July 4. But Hook pulled him because clearly something was wrong.

It looks like Woodruff can come back from whatever is bothering him. He did come back from that April 30 outing. If he can pitch in the World Series and give us a quality start, or even just a good few innings in game 4, I think he'd be a real asset.

[Samurai Bucky]

24 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

Woodruff's fastball was 88 when he started on April 30. There was clearly something wrong. Two months later, he came back for two great starts in June (22 and 28). In his outing on the Fourth of July, he pitched well for the first couple of innings, but when his pitch count hit 40 or so, his velo started ticking down until the 3rd inning, when he his velocity was back in the 80s.  BM1090 is right. He was doing a great job getting guys out with the changeup on July 4. But Hook pulled him because clearly something was wrong.

It looks like Woodruff can come back from whatever is bothering him. He did come back from that April 30 outing. If he can pitch in the World Series and give us a quality start, or even just a good few innings in game 4, I think he'd be a real asset.

Two words:  Doug Jones  😉  He peaked around 86 or maybe 88.  His changeup was around 75, IIRC.

He has to contribute, though.  I don't know if I trust him.  It would probably look suspicious if he pitches, is hurt, then is replaced with Harrison (or whomever they choose).

[owbc]

1 hour ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Two words:  Doug Jones  😉  He peaked around 86 or maybe 88.  His changeup was around 75, IIRC.

He has to contribute, though.  I don't know if I trust him.  It would probably look suspicious if he pitches, is hurt, then is replaced with Harrison (or whomever they choose).

In the late 90s the average MLB fastball was somewhere around 89 mph. So if Jones did peak at 86 mph, that's the equivalent of 91 mph today.