2022 Trade Market

[nate82]

Still really early in the season but the trade market this season looks bleak at best right now offensively.  I don't really see a big time bat to make a trade for on the market.  At best looking over who could become available looks like a bunch of Renfroe's.  

Right now the best bat out there is probably Gallo and the Yankees are asking for a lot for him.  Probably the most interesting name that could be out there would be Judge or Bogaerts if the Yankees and Red Sox are not in the playoff hunt.  But that is highly unlikely.  

Names to watch as the season goes on:

OF Benintendi (Royals)

INF Mancini (Orioles)

INF Odor (Orioles)

OF Gallo (Yankees)

OF Conforto (FA)

INF Candelario (Tigers)

OF Kepler (Twins)

 

The trade market looks awful this year and there just isn't much available or anything that impactful.  The biggest impact bat that could become available is Gallo and maybe Candelario but I think the Tigers will want more than what  Candelario is worth meaning you will have to overpay for the production you are going to get.  I think Urias maybe the only impactful acquisition the Brewers get this year.  The only other interesting notice the bold there would be Senzel from the Reds.  This would be a lets see if a change of scenery helps here and the Reds would have to be basically giving up on ever seeing Senzel being a productive MLB hitter.  Maybe a Hiura+ for Senzel deal?  I am not sure the Reds would do this.  

[brewers888]

I was wondering what the rental market would look like this year and that list truly is bleak. This is just another reason why we should have signed Castellanos who only costs 5 million or so more than McCutchen and Renfroe. Of course Castellanos signed for 5 years while we can dump both McCutchen and Renfroe after the season but this is the time we should be going for it.

Conforto is the only guy on that list that interests me and though I would prefer a righthanded bat we should just sign Conforto now and give up the draft pick provided he is healthy.

I would do Hiura and a mid level prospect for Senzel right now but no way a deal like that happens.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

How does a "2022 Trade Market" thread turn into yet another "We shoulda signed Castellanos" post? 

Methinks yet another case of thread hijackerry is afoot.

[brewers888]

36 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

How does a "2022 Trade Market" thread turn into yet another "We shoulda signed Castellanos" post? 

Methinks yet another case of thread hijackerry is afoot.

When looking at the 2022 trade market you come to realize what a mistake we made not meaningfully addressing our woeful lineup last offseason with a big time free agent.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

8 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

When looking at the 2022 trade market you come to realize what a mistake we made not meaningfully addressing our woeful lineup last offseason with a big time free agent.

No. 

[brewers888]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

No. 

Yeah this offense is clearly good enough to help us win the World Series and the McCutchen and Renfroe acquisitions were brilliant.

[sveumrules]

9 hours ago, brewers888 said:

I was wondering what the rental market would look like this year and that list truly is bleak. This is just another reason why we should have signed Castellanos who only costs 5 million or so more than McCutchen and Renfroe. Of course Castellanos signed for 5 years while we can dump both McCutchen and Renfroe after the season but this is the time we should be going for it.

Right, Castellanos signed for five years. So he actually costs 83.5 million more than McCutchen/Renfroe.

You've clearly stated your preference for A Drive Deep into Left Field numerous times now, but how what moves would you have made to not only clear JBJ's salary, but also the additional salary needed to fit Nick into what is already a franchise record OD payroll? 

[Brewcrew82]

You can cross Conforto off the list. Out for the year after shoulder surgery. 

[brewers888]

12 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Right, Castellanos signed for five years. So he actually costs 83.5 million more than McCutchen/Renfroe.

You've clearly stated your preference for A Drive Deep into Left Field numerous times now, but how what moves would you have made to not only clear JBJ's salary, but also the additional salary needed to fit Nick into what is already a franchise record OD payroll? 

I believe that Castellanos is making about 5 million more than McCutchen and Renfroe combined so that shouldn't be a big issue. After this season Cain is off the books so that helps pay for next years salary. We also know that we are likely to trade all three of Hader, Burnes, and Woodruff in the next few years leading to a likely rebuild so money shouldn't be an issue in a few years when we have only a couple of big salaries.

The point I have been trying to make is we should be all out trying to win the World Series while we have this outstanding pitching and raising the payroll for a year or two should have been done.   

[brewers888]

7 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

You can cross Conforto off the list. Out for the year after shoulder surgery. 

Boras did that guy a disservice having him turn down arbitration.

[sveumrules]

2 hours ago, brewers888 said:

and raising the payroll for a year or two should have been done.   

According to Cots OD payroll was 99 million in 2021 & is 132 million in 2022, payroll was raised pretty significantly. 33 million over last year & 10 million over the previous franchise high.

Of course most of that difference comes down to about 30 million in Arby’s raises that Burnes, Woody, Hader, Adames, Omar, Urias, Houser, Lauer, Rowdy, etc got, but that’s the price you have to pay when you have a 95 win team full of young talent.

Next year those Arby’s raises will likely be even more as everyone is another year deeper into the process, so losing Cain & McCutchen from the payroll prolly won’t be enough to cover it.

As you noted, we’ll likely already have to trade some of those Arby’s guys before they hit FA. Signing Castellanos would have made threading that needle even more difficult.

[brewers888]

17 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

According to Cots OD payroll was 99 million in 2021 & is 132 million in 2022, payroll was raised pretty significantly. 33 million over last year & 10 million over the previous franchise high.

Of course most of that difference comes down to about 30 million in Arby’s raises that Burnes, Woody, Hader, Adames, Omar, Urias, Houser, Lauer, Rowdy, etc got, but that’s the price you have to pay when you have a 95 win team full of young talent.

Next year those Arby’s raises will likely be even more as everyone is another year deeper into the process, so losing Cain & McCutchen from the payroll prolly won’t be enough to cover it.

As you noted, we’ll likely already have to trade some of those Arby’s guys before they hit FA. Signing Castellanos would have made threading that needle even more difficult.

Once we trade Hader, Burnes, and Woodruff we won't be contending anyway so the payroll can easily be below 100 million. We probably have a one or two year window depending on when we move the pitching. The last thing this organization can afford is letting the pitchers play out their control years and lose them for nothing.

With the pitching in place now was the time to go all in by signing Castellanos who was born to DH instead of spending most of that money on McCutchen and Renfroe who are far inferior hitters.

I believe we can make the playoffs just off the pitching but there isn't one contender in the NL with anything close to a lineup as bad as we currently have.

[Outlander]

Probably would put Vogelbach as an option. Come playoff time they could use his left handed bat against righties. I refuse to believe Stearns and Counsell actually believe McCutchen is a good option against RHP when it matter most since he hasn't done so since 2019.

Would also inquire of the Orioles about Anthony Santander. Would have a couple of years of control and starting to get more expensive so maybe the Orioles would be willing to move. Brewers could use him for a couple of years at RF/DH and potentially move on from McCutchen/Renfroe in 2023.

 

[sveumrules]

56 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Once we trade Hader, Burnes, and Woodruff we won't be contending anyway so the payroll can easily be below 100 million. We probably have a one or two year window depending on when we move the pitching. The last thing this organization can afford is letting the pitchers play out their control years and lose them for nothing.

With the pitching in place now was the time to go all in by signing Castellanos who was born to DH instead of spending most of that money on McCutchen and Renfroe who are far inferior hitters.

I believe we can make the playoffs just off the pitching but there isn't one contender in the NL with anything close to a lineup as bad as we currently have.

You are making a ton of future assumptions just to squeeze Castellanos into this roster.

1. It's not a foregone conclusion that we lose all of Hader, Burnes and Woodruff.

2. Whichever of them are traded will likely return significant player packages to further elongate what has already been a five year window.

3. Castellanos would even make as much as a difference as you believe he would. In 2021 Cutch/Renfroe combined for 3.7 WAR, Castellanos checked in at 3.2. If Castellanos is the DH, now Taylor is the every day RF & Cain has to play every day in CF. Who is the 4th OF? When Castellanos is in the OF now Hiura (who only gets one month to figure it out per you) is the primary DH.

It could end up all being moot anyway, maybe if the Phillies are still rocking a .400 winning percentage in July they will salary dump Castellanos or Schwarber on us.  

[brewerfan82]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

With the pitching in place now was the time to go all in by signing Castellanos who was born to DH instead of spending most of that money on McCutchen and Renfroe who are far inferior hitters.

Just to clarify, you know Renfroe wasn't a free agent signing and it was pretty incredible that MA/DS were able to swap JBJ for him while also lowering the payroll in the first place, right? How would you have shed Renfroe's (or JBJ's) salary completely to free up that payroll space?

Not saying it would be impossible to do, but it certainly would have complicated it much more than simply not signing Renfroe had he been a free agent (and pretending JBJ never existed).

[sveumrules]

14 minutes ago, brewerfan82 said:

Just to clarify, you know Renfroe wasn't a free agent signing and it was pretty incredible that MA/DS were able to swap JBJ for him while also lowering the payroll in the first place, right? How would you have shed Renfroe's (or JBJ's) salary completely to free up that payroll space?

Not saying it would be impossible to do, but it certainly would have complicated it much more than simply not signing Renfroe had he been a free agent (and pretending JBJ never existed).

Yup. If JBJ is traded & we take no salary back that likely means that even more or better prospects than Binelas/Hamilton need to be attached to dump his contract. So now we're sacrificing additional future value while also limiting our in season flexibility for 2022. 

Signing Castellanos (if even realistically possible) would have been a very "put all your eggs in one basket move" and we have plenty of evidence now to know that just isn't how Stearns & company operate.

[brewers888]

1 hour ago, brewerfan82 said:

Just to clarify, you know Renfroe wasn't a free agent signing and it was pretty incredible that MA/DS were able to swap JBJ for him while also lowering the payroll in the first place, right? How would you have shed Renfroe's (or JBJ's) salary completely to free up that payroll space?

Not saying it would be impossible to do, but it certainly would have complicated it much more than simply not signing Renfroe had he been a free agent (and pretending JBJ never existed).

Renfroe could have been no tendered. The Red Sox took on Bradley to get Binelas and Hamilton who are both good prospects. If they hadn't dumped Renfroe on us they would have done what I suggested the Brewers do and non tendered Renfroe.

This idea that we had to keep Renfroe is flat out wrong. We could have just traded Bradley with the two prospects and received nothing in return. We chose Renfroe and McCutchen when we knew we needed a substantial offensive upgrade. 

[sveumrules]

11 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

Renfroe could have been no tendered. The Red Sox took on Bradley to get Binelas and Hamilton who are both good prospects. If they hadn't dumped Renfroe on us they would have done what I suggested the Brewers do and non tendered Renfroe.

This idea that we had to keep Renfroe is flat out wrong. We could have just traded Bradley with the two prospects and received nothing in return. We chose Renfroe and McCutchen when we knew we needed a substantial offensive upgrade. 

In what world is a player coming off a 112 OPS+ & 2.3 WAR not worth tendering at 1/7.65, but a guy coming off a 132 OPS+ & 3.2 WAR is totally worth 5/100?

"we could have just traded Bradley with the two prospects and received nothing in return" How do you know this? Stating your assumption as a fact is what is flat out wrong.

I wasn't privy to discussions, but Boston has a budget too. I'd assume that taking on the 2/17.5 owed to JBJ necessitated sending back salary in the deal.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

Renfroe could have been no tendered. The Red Sox took on Bradley to get Binelas and Hamilton who are both good prospects. If they hadn't dumped Renfroe on us they would have done what I suggested the Brewers do and non tendered Renfroe.

This idea that we had to keep Renfroe is flat out wrong. We could have just traded Bradley with the two prospects and received nothing in return. We chose Renfroe and McCutchen when we knew we needed a substantial offensive upgrade. 

I can't tell at this point if you are even being serious anymore. You are letting your sheer hatred for the way the front office has chosen to construct the offense get in the way of common sense.

[wntrtxn21]

3 hours ago, Outlander said:

Probably would put Vogelbach as an option. Come playoff time they could use his left handed bat against righties. I refuse to believe Stearns and Counsell actually believe McCutchen is a good option against RHP when it matter most since he hasn't done so since 2019.

Would also inquire of the Orioles about Anthony Santander. Would have a couple of years of control and starting to get more expensive so maybe the Orioles would be willing to move. Brewers could use him for a couple of years at RF/DH and potentially move on from McCutchen/Renfroe in 2023.

 

I don't think Stearns would even consider Vogelbach an option. I don't see Santander being considered either. He's had only one year (2020) with an OBP of over .297.  Career against LHP .251/.298...against RHP .247/.299.. Taylor offers more and Santander is already in arby.  

[wallus]

I still think part of the strategy is to coast along until the deadline and pick up someone that is available for a reasonable cost like Escobar last year. If you are a team that is very likely to make the playoffs and have payroll constraints, it isn't the worst strategy to save some money. 

I am thinking the market for one year bats in free agency that were interested in the Brewers was a little limited. I would have preferred to bring back Escobar versus Cutch but maybe he was not interested in returning.

[brewers888]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

In what world is a player coming off a 112 OPS+ & 2.3 WAR not worth tendering at 1/7.65, but a guy coming off a 132 OPS+ & 3.2 WAR is totally worth 5/100?

"we could have just traded Bradley with the two prospects and received nothing in return" How do you know this? Stating your assumption as a fact is what is flat out wrong.

I wasn't privy to discussions, but Boston has a budget too. I'd assume that taking on the 2/17.5 owed to JBJ necessitated sending back salary in the deal.

Renfroe could have been non tendered. As far as debating between Castellanos and Renfroe you need to consider that Castellanos would have been the full time DH and his negative defense wouldn’t matter. If you see McCutchen and Renfroe offering more with the bat than Castellanos that is something I would strongly disagree with.

[brewers888]

Why does anyone think we had to take Renfroe back in the Bradley deal when Boston just as easily could have done the deal without him involved and non tendered Hunter after the deal. We clearly wanted the player and I think it was a mistake.

[brewers888]

48 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I can't tell at this point if you are even being serious anymore. You are letting your sheer hatred for the way the front office has chosen to construct the offense get in the way of common sense.

The fact is we didn’t have to take Renfroe back to get rid of Jackie. 

[nate82]

11 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

The fact is we didn’t have to take Renfroe back to get rid of Jackie. 

This is not a fact this is your opinion.