mark mathias & antoine kelly to texas for matt bush

[UpandIn]

26 minutes ago, MNBrew said:

I've read enough of the hype on Kelly.  I'd rather not see him go based on that, but his actual production in games isn't very good outside of his first year of Rookie ball.  High K's, sure, but only about a 2:1 K:BB ratio.

I get the love of great tools, but so far it's not exactly translating.  Remember the love for Cy Sneed, the guy we gave Houston for Villar?  Lots of promise and even made the bigs... but the results sure weren't good.

On the flip side, Matt Bush looks like a good acquisition for the bullpen.  Mathias is just an AAAA guy.  Kelley is at least a few years away.  This looks like the right kind of deal for right now.

You can do this...almost forever on both sides. 

Remember Corbin Burnes? He just won a Cy Young for the Brewers last year. 

Or Ashby? Just signed him to a long term contract extension. Also...has our ability to turn upper 90s and a plus secondary pitch into a successful big league pitcher a bit more regularly than the days of Cy Sneed?

[SRB]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I’m pretty sure it’s the first guy they brought in that did hard time in prison (3 years).

Average Joe goes to prison for a violent felony, he’ll struggle to get a job after and be ostracized. But throw a baseball 97 mph, and we’ll cheer for you because you paid your dues.

He served his time in prison and then worked his way all the way back to the majors. He was working at Golden Corral and tried out for a minor league deal for the Rangers in the parking lot. Worked his way back again through two major injuries and is still plugging away.

Even if you don't consider it a positive redemption story, you at least have to admit the guy deserves more credit than MLB stars who have done some terrible things and merely faced a suspension or a slap on the wrist.

[bulldogboy0733]

13 minutes ago, SRB said:

With Cousins starting a rehab assignment and Strzelecki looking like another breakout reliever, the bullpen is getting pretty stacked.

Breakout might be a tad oversold. 

[beekay414]

Wisconsin sports fans cheered for Darren Sharper for years, I think they can manage Matt Bush for a few. At least we know Bush's demons. 

[liveforoctober]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I’m pretty sure it’s the first guy they brought in that did hard time in prison (3 years).

Average Joe goes to prison for a violent felony, he’ll struggle to get a job after and be ostracized. But throw a baseball 97 mph, and we’ll cheer for you because you paid your dues.

How many more of these do you need before you will move on in this thread? We get it you don't like the guy. Don't go the games or stop watching or whatever you need to do.

This thread is about the trade and the big league club. You've made your feelings known.

[CheeseheadInQC]

14 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

I don't think he would have been added mainly because he is still pretty far from the majors and has put up mediocre numbers at high A. 

Antoine Kelly would probably get protected and, if not, picked for the same reason Abner Uribe, who has much less of a track record, will almost certainly be protected. Big arms get chosen.

[UpandIn]

6 minutes ago, liveforoctober said:

Still time left. 40 man roster is FULL+ ... Stearns isn't done dealing.

I get that, I just don't like adding Matt Bush for Antoine Kelly. 

[SRB]

1 minute ago, bulldogboy0733 said:

Breakout might be a tad oversold. 

He's been great at every step in the minors and again in MLB this season. Seems like it might be the classic case of an unheralded prospect on nobody's radar who becomes a solid reliever. So far so good at least.

[UpandIn]

4 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Wisconsin sports fans cheered for Darren Sharper for years, I think they can manage Matt Bush for a few. At least we know Bush's demons. 

Yeah, I wouldn't have if I'd have known he was raping women. I don't really see any correlation here. 

I also liked Bill Cosby. And then I learned what Bill Cosby did. This is a big reach for me. 

 

[Eye Black]

The reason I can’t bring myself to write off Antoine Kelly’s future outlook is he was still less than two years removed from surgery for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome which is notoriously difficult to come back from. I do think he has the tools to be a good high leverage reliever down the road. 

[MoreTrife]

11 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Wisconsin sports fans cheered for Darren Sharper for years, I think they can manage Matt Bush for a few. At least we know Bush's demons. 

Haha to be fair we didn't know sharper was a POS until after his career.

[MNBrew]

Some people become worse human beings as they go through life, different than who they were (or seemed to be).  Some people do or go through awful things and eventually become better human beings.  As Matt Bush paid a steep price for his actions, I hope he's learned from that and the latter is applicable to him.

For now, he's a Brewers reliever and I hope he continues to have a good year on the mound.  Mark Mathias was a decent organizational guy but not an outstanding player -- it would be fun to see him have some success in Texas.  If Kelly has MLB success some day, more power to him ... as long as it's always for an AL team or against other NL Central teams.

 

[MoreTrife]

I can't believe a 36 year old is throwing 97. 

[Joseph Zarr]

I'm mostly disappointed i now have to edit my little article on the prospects we received in the earlier Hader trade!?

I wish Antoine the absolute best in his future endeavors. He was fun to watch. He had major control issues and he was a perfectionist - which may hinder his development in the future (who knows). 

The trade is completed. I hope Bush knocks it out of the park. I care not to speculate on his personhood concerning a tragic event many many years ago. I've done some awful sh#t in my life as well. Hopefully, he's a good Brewer.

[Fear The Chorizo]

20 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I’m pretty sure it’s the first guy they brought in that did hard time in prison (3 years).

Average Joe goes to prison for a violent felony, he’ll struggle to get a job after and be ostracized. But throw a baseball 97 mph, and we’ll cheer for you because you paid your dues.

Everything in Bush's very checkered legal history, and I mean everything, points to his issue and disease with alcoholism that was likely inflated greatly by the fact he got thrown a pile of cash as a kid because he was talented at baseball.  

Reading everything about Bush since he did time, he doesn't ask for pity or for people to feel sorry for him.  If he hasn't actually been sober for years, he never plays baseball again and very likely isn't alive anymore.

You are doing plenty of ostracizing, so don't act like Bush doesn't have to deal with his history every day, both internally and given the fact his job forces him into the public spotlight whether he wants to or not - somewhere addicts typically view as the last place they want to be.

[rickh150]

17 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I’m pretty sure it’s the first guy they brought in that did hard time in prison (3 years).

Average Joe goes to prison for a violent felony, he’ll struggle to get a job after and be ostracized. But throw a baseball 97 mph, and we’ll cheer for you because you paid your dues.

In Texas, he could not drink alcohol. He had limits and restrictions on where he lived and what he could do daily by team rules. I wonder if it is similar here. Crazy but he is now in the beer city wearing a Brewers shirt after crippling a man for a DUI. I am all for forgiveness and he paid his time, but yeah, it is cringe worthy.

[UpandIn]

6 minutes ago, Eye Black said:

The reason I can’t bring myself to write off Antoine Kelly’s future outlook is he was still less than two years removed from surgery for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome which is notoriously difficult to come back from. I do think he has the tools to be a good high leverage reliever down the road. 

I guess it's just...blindly trust in Stearns at this point. He's earned that and they know what they're doing with pitchers. Doesn't make me love Bush, but I can come around. Maybe they didn't like Kelly's profile as much as some of us did?

 

Though, I do want to add I couldn't care less where he was ranked in our top 30. He threw in the upper 90s, he could maintain that into his starts and he could make hitters look silly with the slider. We've been able to help pitchers with command issues.

If you just look at the talent in the BP...Lamet could be a huge weapon(big question mark though), Rogers is a good bet and Bush...we can shorten games and win with run prevention. I guess I'm getting to acceptance pretty quick.

[MNBrew]

5 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Sorry, he’s a multiple offender, addict and ex-con. I don’t care if he has a nice redemption story. 
 

Another way to look at it is, if you throw a baseball 97mph, the rules don’t apply to you so do whatever you want some baseball team will give you a fortune to do it for them 

 

I think I get your point about how often the rules don't apply to athletes.  It seems like we've seen that sort of thing a lot of times over the years.  I'm no fan of Matt Bush's rap sheet or the kinds of choices he made.

But clearly the rules did apply to Matt Bush.  He broke the rules, got busted, and paid a heavy price.  No one guaranteed let alone gift-wrapped for him a 2nd chance at a baseball career after prison.  He was lucky to have that opportunity, and what came after came with no guarantees.  Everything from that point on, he had to earn.  To his credit, he did.

To me, it's not about a redemption story.  He went through what he went through.  He's done well since and presumably made good choices.  My hope is that now that he's a Brewers reliever, he continues to do both those things and that the Brewers are the beneficiaries.

[beekay414]

21 minutes ago, MoreTrife said:

Haha to be fair we didn't know sharper was a POS until after his career.

Which is entirely my point ha. We don't know who any of these dudes are behind closed doors. Thus using someone who's transgressions are known as sole reasoning to not root for the team makes no reasonable sense. 

[Dadbauer]

Just read Matt Bush's wikipedia page. Wow, what a trip. Don't love rooting for this guy, but I hope he has figured out his life and pitches well for the crew.

[gregmag]

36 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I’m pretty sure it’s the first guy they brought in that did hard time in prison (3 years).

Average Joe goes to prison for a violent felony, he’ll struggle to get a job after and be ostracized. But throw a baseball 97 mph, and we’ll cheer for you because you paid your dues.

Yeah, and IMHO regular people who pay for their crimes deserve second chances too. The injustice isn’t that a few people with special skills get those chances. The injustice is that less skilled people don’t.  

The state decided his crimes warranted the sentence he served.  I haven’t seen any source suggesting that he got leniency because he’s a ballplayer.  He served that sentence.

 

My life has been very adversely affected by other people’s drinking. I’m happy to root for a person who’s doing the hard work of trying to beat the addiction and get his life right.

[Joseph Zarr]

Back to baseball:

It's quite nice to see Matt Bush has dominated lefties and righties in 2022. He's averaging over a K/inning and is holding both righties and lefty bats to a 0.200 BA or below.

[SomewhereInTime]

1 hour ago, ny_chez said:

I’m looking forward to hearing more about Bush’s story.  He’s 5 foot 9, was a number 1 overall pick, started his minor league career with 800 at bats before being converted to a pitcher, and played 12 years in the minors before making it to the majors.  He’s 36 and has 2.5 years of control left!

Yeah it's a great heart warming story about determination and mental fortitude.

[UpandIn]

30 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Back to baseball:

It's quite nice to see Matt Bush has dominated lefties and righties in 2022. He's averaging over a K/inning and is holding both righties and lefty bats to a 0.200 BA or below.

Certainly gives us a LOT of options and a pretty dominant pen.

Williams/Bush/Rogers/Boxberger/Gott/Cousins, Topa coming along(not sure if he's viable option yet) and then a real question mark in Lameta could be...Hader-ish or on the IL the next 2 years. 

We did move Hader, but we've got more really good arms(and I know I'm missing someone). I thought if you were gonna trade Kelly, you maybe do it for Bell+Kyle Finnegan, but...trying to think positively now.

[KeithStone53151]

I like the idea of focusing on the trade more than virtue signaling on a brewer fan forum.

Bush has been pretty darn good in the first half and generally good the last few years. I'm not sure we really NEEDED an arm with the guys coming back, but he's better than at least one player in the bullpen and will likely pitch meaningful innings down the stretch. I would probably rate him somewhere in the boxberger/gott/Milner range.