Bucks 2022-2023 Season Thread

[adambr2]

If they can bring both Lopez and Middleton back I am good with it. That would probably be the best way to attract someone like Nurse if they do can Bud. I don't know that they have a better alternative than to just try to run it back with their core. It worked in '21 but sooner or later age is going to catch up to these guys, maybe it already has. Not Giannis, but a pretty good chunk of the rest of the core.

But for now, try to run it back, maybe a new HC, I don't know what else they can really do? They really need to examine what they are doing to try to plug holes at the deadline though because these moves are just not working at all. 

[owbc]

The silver lining is that if they were going to lose anyway, it was better to go out in spectacular fashion to force more changes. 

The pessimist in me says that was their last real chance to win another 'ship with Giannis, swapping out the role players isn't going to make much of a difference. A coaching change could make a difference though, if they have the guts to do it. 

 

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, owbc said:

The silver lining is that if they were going to lose anyway, it was better to go out in spectacular fashion to force more changes. 

The pessimist in me says that was their last real chance to win another 'ship with Giannis, swapping out the role players isn't going to make much of a difference. A coaching change could make a difference though, if they have the guts to do it. 

 

I only saw the first game and "assumed" that rust was the major factor in them not looking organized as a team... I missed the last 3 games; only to watch the last half of the 4th Q and OT last night.  I thought you guys (not specifically owbc, but several people) exaggerating about a coaching change.

After watching the end of that game, I don't know how you don't make a change.  The overall coaching (not just in-game, but overall preparedness and team comfort with each other) was horrid.  They looked like jr-highers out there (not an overreaction, I'll explain):

• Lets start with Giannis.  That was not an MVP.  Suddenly, his FT form reverts back to 2020 FT form (knees fully extended before the ball goes, leaving him short every time).  He couldn't manufacture his own bucket and resorted to shooting bad jumpers. He wasn't even on the D end much.  Perhaps it was the injury, but he invisible at the end of the game.
• The big 3: crunch time and NONE of them wanted the ball.  They might dribble and test, but passed off immediately.  Nor did they create well for others... most pass outs where to covered players that were standing (not cutting).  
• Team unity - have these guys played BB with each other before?  Sure didn't look like it.  No one moving together, blind passes to where someone wasn't standing... they didn't look together out there on offense nor defense.
• Passing - wow.  Just wow.  This was jr-high level (I DON'T WANT TO BALL YOU TAKE IT) garbage passing.  There are simply too many instances where passes were rushed and the ball wasn't controlled.  So many turnovers or near TOs... 
• Basketball IQ: Why aren't we inbounding the ball to Khris and let them foul him for FTs?  Why are we trying to be cute, pass to an "open area" where the best case scenario is that we waste 1 more second, but a couple times lost the ball or almost lost the ball.  Why aren't we taking TOs to setup plays?  Why not miss Holliday's second FT with 2 sec left?  
• Coaching - Yeah, wow.  Our defense just remained with the old "drop Brooks D" that didn't work a few years ago and allowed open so many open jumpers.  This team looked SO unprepared for the Heat and made zero adjustments.  

I'm glad we didn't suddenly eke that one out because we had no business winning that based on our play. 

I think we clearly had the advantage in skill players (the only reason the game was close and/or had a lead), but if we had played together like the Heat played together... we would've crushed them in 4 games.  The Heat's coaching, team play, and Butler's give-me-the-ball attitude were what put them over the top in a well deserved series victory.

So, I'm currently on the time to replace the coaching staff bandwagon. 

[owbc]

My brother called them the "Cream City Clunkers" in the 4th quarter and I can't get that nickname out of my head now. 

[HarryDoyle]

I was hoping the Knicks would pummel the Heat to kickstart Bud's firing but Miami keeps on winning.

[homer]

 

[homer]

I'm assuming Nick Nurse gets an interview.

[SomewhereInTime]

Damn that was a quick trigger.  Winning a title only buys him two more years lol

Seriously though, glad they did it.  A coach can't keep his job after the greatest collapse in the history of the sport.

[young guns]

Well, probably deserved, not that I'm in a position to judge how well a coach coaches.  Hopefully the grass will be greener wherever we go on the coach search.

[adambr2]

Budd out. 

https://www.si.com/nba/2023/05/04/bucks-fire-coach-mike-budenholzer-playoff-collapse-report

[Matt Breen]

Interesting to see what happens next. First domino is Middleton. Does he opt out of $40M? 

I remember when a 30-year old Gordon Hayward opted out of $34M a few years ago - I thought he was nuts. Turns out he got 4 years/$120M - even with a very spotty injury history. Middleton is 32, so I'm wondering if he'll look to secure one final big payday by opting out. I'm sure he won't opt out if there aren't signs someone will want to sign him. Rumors are out that Dallas is interested in him. He is from Texas. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think the title bought him much more than a year because there were always rumblings they won in spite of him. Also, I think it was a near certainty he would have been canned in '20 had they not been in the bubble.

Still, though, he was the HC that brought the title back to Milwaukee and that is worth something. I'm glad they're turning the page but I do feel bad for the human. That is an all-time brutal 2-week period for anybody.

Nurse seems to be the hot item so I'm fully expecting an assistant nobody's heard of.

[patrickgpe]

I think the top 3 candidates will be Atkinson, Nurse, or Vogel. Any of the 3 are fine but no worse or better of a coach than Bud. I would hope Giannis has a voice in the conversation, but again he is a big fan of Kidd, who is a terrible coach, so I don't think he gets the final say. 

[patrickgpe]

6 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

 

Nurse seems to be the hot item so I'm fully expecting an assistant nobody's heard of.

from what i read the 2 hot assistants are Charles Lee from the current staff and Chris Quinn from the Heat. 

[adambr2]

Budd out. 

https://www.si.com/nba/2023/05/04/bucks-fire-coach-mike-budenholzer-playoff-collapse-report

[nate82]

17 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

I remember when a 30-year old Gordon Hayward opted out of $34M a few years ago - I thought he was nuts. Turns out he got 4 years/$120M - even with a very spotty injury history. Middleton is 32, so I'm wondering if he'll look to secure one final big payday by opting out. I'm sure he won't opt out if there aren't signs someone will want to sign him. Rumors are out that Dallas is interested in him. He is from Texas. 

I am hoping if Middleton won’t resign if we could at least do a sign and trade with the Mavericks.  Otherwise the Bucks are going to be Giannis, Jrue and Lopez.  That is just a 5-10 seed team.  

[homer]

I think the threads are updating "last post" now. 

[GAME05]

Pretty well always the right move to opt out. We probably just have to cross our fingers that there's a good enough market for him that somebody wants to do a sign-and-trade in order to give him five years.

I've heard rumors of the Mavericks, who of course would be happy to overpay for about any big name. But it would mostly amount to a couple late 1sts and off-the-bench improvement.

The Middleton-for-Kawhi Leonard rumor was interesting. The idea being the Clippers would be giving away more talent but get away from Kawai always being injured.

I've heard of a Mitchell Robinson (Knicks) for Middleton idea.

Apparently the Rockets are interested in Middleton for some unknown reason.

Ultimately, though, even if both Middleton and Lopez leave, I see more of a soft-reset where we just roll with what we've got left and we just start expecting Giannis to get 60 per game on a ridiculous usage rate.

 

[Samurai Bucky]

26 minutes ago, GAME05 said:

Ultimately, though, even if both Middleton and Lopez leave, I see more of a soft-reset where we just roll with what we've got left and we just start expecting Giannis to get 60 per game on a ridiculous usage rate.

 

I'm not sure Giannis' knees will sign on to that deal.

[SeaBass]

Kawhi, as much as I'd love to have him at 100%, I just don't trust his commitment to playing. He feels a lot like an anti-Giannis. Plus he's one of those guys that will demand a trade at the first sign of things not going his way. Ultimately I don't want to roll those dice.

Maybe I'm wrong, it's just the impression I have of him as an outsider without much knowledge of him.

[sveumrules]

Magic could maybe make sense as a sign and trade for Middleton. 

Hammond is the GM and it would give Wagner/Banchero/this year’s lotto pick that Champion Veteran to help them start their rise towards contention.

Don’t really like any of the young players they’d potentially send back though, would have to be some combo of Jonathan Isaac, Markelle Fultz, Wendell Carter Jr., Jalen Suggs, Cole Anthony, Bol Bol…blah blah.

[sveumrules]

Cavaliers got bounced in the first round. Mitchell and Garland are kind of redundant as undersized guards while they don’t really have much at SF.

Maybe a sign and trade around Middleton/Garland with other pieces added as needed?

[nate82]

9 hours ago, GAME05 said:

Pretty well always the right move to opt out. We probably just have to cross our fingers that there's a good enough market for him that somebody wants to do a sign-and-trade in order to give him five years.

I've heard rumors of the Mavericks, who of course would be happy to overpay for about any big name. But it would mostly amount to a couple late 1sts and off-the-bench improvement.

The Middleton-for-Kawhi Leonard rumor was interesting. The idea being the Clippers would be giving away more talent but get away from Kawai always being injured.

I've heard of a Mitchell Robinson (Knicks) for Middleton idea.

Apparently the Rockets are interested in Middleton for some unknown reason.

Ultimately, though, even if both Middleton and Lopez leave, I see more of a soft-reset where we just roll with what we've got left and we just start expecting Giannis to get 60 per game on a ridiculous usage rate.

 

I think the Knicks would only be interested in Middleton if they thought they could get Giannis also otherwise I don't see the Knicks being all that interested.  The Knicks are probably the favorites to get Giannis if Giannis wants out as they have the picks to offer the Bucks.  The Knicks have 1 '23 1st round pick from the Mavericks and 3 first round picks in '24 with one of them being their own.  So if the Bucks want three first round picks they could take all of the Knicks 1st round picks in '24.  You are looking at two possible lottery picks with the Pistons and Wizards '24 1st round picks. 

Something like Randle, Robinson, and the three '24 1st round picks for Giannis.  I don't think the Bucks should or would do this but I think that is close to what could be expected for a Giannis trade. 

I would rather get back Powell and Morris for Middleton than take on Kawhi.  I don't think Kawhi is even interested in playing basketball anymore.  He won his championship and got paid I don't think he would put in the time to get better.  I think Kawhi would be extremely toxic for the Bucks. 

[patrickgpe]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but its weird how quiet the head coaching search is I know they have basically had 4 days (and 2 were the weekend), but Im wondering if they are monitoring a coach that is currently employed. The talking heads on ESPN were openly discussing Rivers getting booted if he can't get past Boston. Still think its a 2 man race of Vogel and Nurse, with Attkisson as a long shot, but the bucks have been silent since making the move Thursday afternoon. 

The one thing I am (pretty) sure of is that you can't fire the coach with the best winning % in team history for a rookie coach. 

[Joseph Zarr]

So far the publicly shared list of current HC candidates appears to be:

Adrian Griffin
Charles Lee
Kenny Atkinson
Scott Brooks
James Borrego