Lauer to Front Office: "Time to put up or shut up"

[Thurston Fluff]

17 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

He went 11-7 and we were 17-12 in his starts. 

At least someone on the team cares about winning and is upset about losing. Not sure why you are making him out to be some bum...dude has been fantastic the last two years. He is one of our better players that is young/controllable right now.

You don't have to point fingers to care. I'm not sure caring about winning during the time you are there at the expense of every year after you leave is all that wonderful of an attitude to build around in any event. Which is why him saying what he said isn't what I'd refer to as the type of leadership necessary to win championships.

[sveumrules]

Cots has the Phils OD payroll at $228M this year, a few million short of the last two Brewers OD payrolls combined.

Brewers don’t have those kind of chips.

Pushing payroll to $150M would be “all in” for them, but still nowhere near the big spenders of the NL.

Extend one of Burnes or Woodruff, trade for Sean Murphy and sign Abreu would probably be the peak somewhat realistic “all in” moves for my offseason.

We’ll see what actually happens.

[Samurai Bucky]

3 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Maybe some fingers need to be pointed. Glad to see someone taking a leadership role, because we haven't really seen it from guys like Yelich and Burnes. At least not publically. 

Perhaps Yelich and Burnes understand that things like this are best handled internally and not in the cesspool of social media (or maybe simply "the media").

[nate82]

The problem with Bell is that he is either good in the 1st half of the season and then bad in the 2nd half or bad in the 1st half and then good in the 2nd half.  

[Brewcrew82]

35 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

Sure but the phillies had a payroll of 190+ million. They already had Harper, Scwarber, Realmuto, Castellanos, and Segura as big name/payroll guys in the lineup. The bigger market allowed them to bring in Syndergaard and improve. Our lineup and resources fall way short of the Phillies.

Oh yeah, Castellanos and Segura, who produced a combined 1.0 fWAR between them for $25 million dollars....

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

3 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Perhaps Yelich and Burnes understand that things like this are best handled internally and not in the cesspool of social media (or maybe simply "the media").

Perhaps. But to me, it's hard to fault a guy for outwardly wanting to win, and not just collect a paycheck.

[Samurai Bucky]

31 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Perhaps. But to me, it's hard to fault a guy for outwardly wanting to win, and not just collect a paycheck.

I don't disagree with you about his motivations.  We also don't know if he has had discussions with the management.  An assumption might be that because Yelich and Burnes have not said something to the media, they only want to collect a paycheck.  I don't think that would be a safe assumption, either.

[MrTPlush]

7 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I don't disagree with you about his motivations.  We also don't know if he has had discussions with the management.  An assumption might be that because Yelich and Burnes have not said something to the media, they only want to collect a paycheck.  I don't think that would be a safe assumption, either.

Yelich sure plays like he is just coming to collect a paycheck....

[Thurston Fluff]

19 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Yelich sure plays like he is just coming to collect a paycheck....

He signed a team friendly contract to replace the team friendly contract he was playing under while he was playing at an MVP level. Money is not his motivating factor.

[jay87shot]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

But their talent? Was their talent that far off of what we were this year...or more importantly, what we could technically build for next year? 

The Royals appeared in two world series on a tiny payroll and honestly their teams weren't that great. The Cardinals have a few trophies they got with pretty pedestrian talent teams. Rays made the WS recently (shortened season). The Nationals championship team was no better than us. There are plenty of teams winning with good, but not insanely talented teams. 

Their talent is way above ours, they had a solid 1-3 in Wheeler, Nola, Suarez and added in Syndergaard. Their pen was much deeper with Knebel, Dominguez, Alvardo, Hand, and Bellatti being solid late inning options. Then there is the lineups, they had 5 everyday guys hit over .260 (6 if you count the short time Marsh was there). We had 3 over .240. They had 5 passible middle of the order hitters in Harper, Realmuto, Castellanos, Schwarber, and Hoskins, we maybe had 1 with Renfroe (I don't count Rowdy with a .219 avg). So yes the Phillies talent was way above ours, we benefited from 57 games (i think) vs. the reds, cubs, and pirates. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

43 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

I don't disagree with you about his motivations.  We also don't know if he has had discussions with the management.  An assumption might be that because Yelich and Burnes have not said something to the media, they only want to collect a paycheck.  I don't think that would be a safe assumption, either.

I wasn't necessarily referring to Yelich and Burnes, although I see how that could be inferred. But there's plenty of players out there who have admitted that money is not only their main motivation, it's perhaps about 99% of their total motivation. 

[Robocaller]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:40 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

If the Brewers can run out $150m payroll for two seasons, do so. It will make their inevitable slide out of contention and an $80m payroll while they rebuild much more tolerable. 

What $20+M a year guy do they get who would make a difference? Budget should be a consequence of making acquisitions (trade, FA), not a goal in itself.

[Brewcrew82]

4 hours ago, jay87shot said:

Their talent is way above ours, they had a solid 1-3 in Wheeler, Nola, Suarez and added in Syndergaard. Their pen was much deeper with Knebel, Dominguez, Alvardo, Hand, and Bellatti being solid late inning options. Then there is the lineups, they had 5 everyday guys hit over .260 (6 if you count the short time Marsh was there). We had 3 over .240. They had 5 passible middle of the order hitters in Harper, Realmuto, Castellanos, Schwarber, and Hoskins, we maybe had 1 with Renfroe (I don't count Rowdy with a .219 avg). So yes the Phillies talent was way above ours, we benefited from 57 games (i think) vs. the reds, cubs, and pirates. 

Nothing about the Phillies rotation talent is way above ours. Hitting-wise, yes, I agree, there's a gap. But it's not as significant as I think you're making it out to be. 

[jay87shot]

10 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Nothing about the Phillies rotation talent is way above ours. Hitting-wise, yes, I agree, there's a gap. But it's not as significant as I think you're making it out to be. 

I didn't mean their rotation was better but pretty comparable solid 1-3, workable 4-5. Also it looks like they had less injuries which is a plus. I would take Burnes, Woody, Peralta in a series but it is close and not close to enough to make up for the pen and lineup issues.

[nate82]

My brain read the title as Lauer to Front Office: "Time to purr up or shut up".  

[rickh150]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:40 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

If the Brewers can run out $150m payroll for two seasons, do so. It will make their inevitable slide out of contention and an $80m payroll while they rebuild much more tolerable. 

I’d almost agree….   The base is so bleh right now with this team. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

15 hours ago, Robocaller said:

What $20+M a year guy do they get who would make a difference? Budget should be a consequence of making acquisitions (trade, FA), not a goal in itself.

$20-25m simply gives them more flexibility to acquire good players, flexibility the Brewers don't have a lot of at a $130m payroll.

[Robocaller]

8 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

$20-25m simply gives them more flexibility to acquire good players, flexibility the Brewers don't have a lot of at a $130m payroll.

It gives them the flexibility of extending someone beyond their arbitration years, but I don't know it provides much opportunity to acquire good players. Abreu might be the only player that fits that they could sign, and there might be competition for him which prices him beyond the Brewers' ability to match.

 

[Robocaller]

20 hours ago, rickh150 said:

I’d almost agree….   The base is so bleh right now with this team. 

You might be spoiled. The last 6 years is probably the second-best 6-year period in team history. We've never had a top of the rotation like our current team.

 

[brewcrewdue80]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:22 PM, Brewcrew82 said:

The article emphasizes spending relative to the rest of the league. Relative to the rest of the league, the Brewers' payroll is down from what it has been in the past. In 2018, for example, the Brewers finished 12th in MLB in payroll. But over the last few years, they've been mired in the low 20s/high 10s. Of course, the Brewers will be spending a franchise record in payroll when spending league-wide has gone up so much. 

Also, the article talks about smart, targeted spending, not just spending for the sake of spending. The latter is how you end up with 2014/2015 scenarios (e.g. Garza, Lohse), while the former would be more in line with how they've operated since Stearns (e.g., Grandal, Moustakas). So, basically keep the Stearns philosophy but increase general the payroll limit. One way this would potentially play out is to extend Corbin Burnes. 

Other teams from 2018 to now came out of rebuild and push their payroll closer to where it's expected. Think White Sox, Padres, Mets, Braves,Phillies, Giants?, Blue Jay's, and Maybe Seattle or Angel's.  Brewers should be in the 20s for payroll rankings.

[rickh150]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:05 PM, Robocaller said:

You might be spoiled. The last 6 years is probably the second-best 6-year period in team history. We've never had a top of the rotation like our current team.

 

Clubhouse moral down….Attendance down… people ticked at Hader deal and deadline in general. Trading like a last place team leading division. Unheard of.   Style of offensive play so brutal to watch day to day. Can’t keep Burnes. And the Big Report on AmFam Park will probably be a challenge as a city/county too, a financial elephant problem sitting on the team
So, yeah, a little spoiled, sure. But the other stuff is all true and mainly troubling. 

[sveumrules]

47 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Clubhouse moral down….Attendance down… people ticked at Hader deal and deadline in general. Trading like a last place team leading division. Unheard of.   Style of offensive play so brutal to watch day to day. Can’t keep Burnes. And the Big Report on AmFam Park will probably be a challenge as a city/county too, a financial elephant problem sitting on the team
So, yeah, a little spoiled, sure. But the other stuff is all true and mainly troubling. 

Attendance hasn’t recovered to pre-Covid levels across all of MLB (not just Milwaukee) and Burnes will likely end up being too expensive to retain, but everything else is either conjecture or personal opinion, not really objective truth or even all that troubling necessarily depending on one’s POV.

If you think AmFam maintenance is inevitably going to be too costly for MLB to remain financially viable in Milwaukee, enjoy the death knell I guess? Brutal as it may be.

[UpandIn]

On 11/8/2022 at 10:38 AM, jay87shot said:

Say the ownership pushes it up to 150 million and goes for it. Does that really have a chance against the teams spending 300 million or close to it. Would adding say Jose Abreu and not losing anyone really push this team much. Maybe we make the playoffs where we have a punchers chance but we are way off a team like the Dodgers, Braves, or Mets talent wise overall.

Payroll doesn't win games, teams do. The Royals, Cleveland, Tampa, these teams have gotten to WS. The Braves and Cards spending 20M more Don't know what the Rockies have spent of the D-backs, but I know we were two late Jeremy Jeffress HRs away from beating the Dodgers with Wade Miley and Jhoulys Chacin as our #1 and #2 pitchers. 

So yeah, add Abreu, Frelick, Turang, Uribe, Gasser, Mitchell for a full year, Ruiz, maybe stay healthy, potential trades. 

The Dodgers, Braves and Mets were all FAR superior to the Phillies and probably the Pads team that ...yet the Phillies were in there. 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:02 PM, Robocaller said:

It gives them the flexibility of extending someone beyond their arbitration years, but I don't know it provides much opportunity to acquire good players. Abreu might be the only player that fits that they could sign, and there might be competition for him which prices him beyond the Brewers' ability to match.

It's very possible they can't match teams on a lot of players. Abreu and Bell are the two most likely candidates, IMO.

But more payroll also gives more flexibility to acquire an arb 2/3 guy via trade that makes decent ($10-15m) money. More money is a good thing for competition and given that we all know the Brewers will take a step back at some point and run a lower payroll, it bothers me to see them not push harder during the boom time because we all know they'll reap during a bust time in the near- to mid-future.

[Robocaller]

8 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

It's very possible they can't match teams on a lot of players. Abreu and Bell are the two most likely candidates, IMO.

But more payroll also gives more flexibility to acquire an arb 2/3 guy via trade that makes decent ($10-15m) money. More money is a good thing for competition and given that we all know the Brewers will take a step back at some point and run a lower payroll, it bothers me to see them not push harder during the boom time because we all know they'll reap during a bust time in the near- to mid-future.

I see zero reason to acquire Bell.