Hunter Renfroe to Angels for 3 pitchers

[Brewcrew82]

6 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

I'm not sure of that. At least not to any appreciable extent. Alexander was elite (in the minors) at getting ground balls. What's Junk's calling card?

Alexander went undrafted and will be 30 in March. Junk was actually drafted and is good enough to be the #14 prospect in our system ATM according to MLB Pipeline. Alexander is a one trick pony with his sinker who has mediocre secondary pitches and control and gets hit consistently hard. Junk, meanwhile, has a high-spin fastball with better secondary pitches and excellent control. The upside is greater with Junk and Junk had better underlying numbers last year in his limited sample size. 

[Robocaller]

5 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Alexander went undrafted and will be 30 in March. Junk was actually drafted and is good enough to be the #14 prospect in our system ATM according to MLB Pipeline. Alexander is a one trick pony with his sinker who has mediocre secondary pitches and control and gets hit consistently hard. Junk, meanwhile, has a high-spin fastball with better secondary pitches and excellent control. The upside is greater with Junk and Junk had better underlying numbers last year in his limited sample size. 

I see that you're right that MLB slots him in at #14; the only explanation I can think of is that they didn't realize how bad the Angels system was.

[Brewcrew82]

5 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

I see that you're right that MLB slots him in at #14; the only explanation I can think of is that they didn't realize how bad the Angels system was.

I'll trust the guys who actually do this for a living and watch these players in-person over what some guy on Brewer-fanatic thinks doing a quick google search. 

[Robocaller]

7 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I'll trust the guys who actually do this for a living and watch these players in-person over what some guy on Brewer-fanatic thinks doing a quick google search. 

I feel devalued. {sniffle}

[MVP2110]

1 hour ago, UpandIn said:

We went to one of the WORST farm systems and traded for 3 pitchers, the best of which was their 26th ranked prospect.

I don't feel like that's the type of player you have to trade vs risk losing for nothing. That his value as a left handed bat who can hit righties would have been more valuable on this team. 

But maybe the Brewers surprise me and re-sign Burnes or sign Contreras or Abreu and then I'll be fine with it. This move while keeping Wong when there's interest in him...just doesn't make sense to me. 

Where are you getting 26th ranked prospect? He was 16th by MLB Pipeline and slid in as the 14th ranked prospect in the Brewers system

[StearnsFTW]

48 minutes ago, monty57 said:

At the end of the day, I thought Renfroe would be on the opening day roster as RF/DH. That they mad the trade either means:

1) They needed the money, either because they’re broke or they have a better option on which to spend it. 
 

2) They think Frelick is ready to start and can provide production for a lot less than $11M. 
 

3) They really like the guys they got back. 
 

I think options 1 & 2 are more likely than option 3. 

I agree.  I think 1 and 2.

[michael1960]

7 hours ago, JosephC said:

I don't see anything in this return to get excited about.

Junk, nearly 27 years old, 24 2/3 MLB innings, 4.74 ERA, 5.22 FIP, 1.42 WHIP, 7.7 K/9, 4.2 K/BB (OK, the K/BB is good), AAA numbers = 76 innings, 4.86 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 8.4 K/9, 3.9 K/BB

Peguero, 25 years old, 19 2/3 MLB innings, 9.15 ERA, 5.92 FIP, 1.93 WHIP, 6.2 K/9, 2.4 K/BB, AAA numbers = 52 1/3 innings, 3.44 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, 9.8 K/9, 3.8 K/BB

Seminaris, 24 years old, AAA numbers = 34 1/3 innings, 5.24 ERA, 1.72 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 1.7 K/BB, AA numbers = 30 2/3 innings, 4.70 ERA, 1.66 WHIP, 7.9 K/9, 1.9 K/BB

MLB data on Junk obviously is limited, but it's interesting that in 2021 he threw a slider 21.3% of the time and a curveball 21.9% of the time, but in 2022 the slider went up to 45.3% of the time and the curveball dropped to 8.2% of the time.  Could be the Angels were already looking to transition him to full-time relief.  His fastball averages 92.7 MPH, and so far in the majors, only his slider has been a positive pitch for him (throws fastball, slider, curveball and occasional change-up).

Peguero is fastball/slider.  Fastball is at 96.4 MPH but MLB hitters have had no problem with it as it has been a pretty significant negative by Pitch Value numbers.  The slider also is in negative territory.

The 2021 Baseball America Prospect Handbook noted that Seminaris has somewhat of a cross-fire delivery, so I'm thinking a funky delivery which the Brewers just seem to love.  But after viewing video on YouTube, I didn't see anything that looked overly deceptive to me.  Sets on the first base side of the rubber and does not have an exaggerated stride towards first...I didn't see anything that would indicate he could be a "death on lefties" type pitcher.  If anything, there is a pretty decent fading change that makes it look like he might actually be better against righties (based on one video that lasts only a few minutes, so not much information).

Just not a lot to get excited about.  Also not thrilled that two of these guys are on the 40-man roster immediately and neither of them seem like sure-fire bets for the 2023 26-man roster.  I also believe Seminaris is Rule V eligible after this season, but that probably isn't that big of a deal because his performance in 2023 very likely determines if the Brewers and the rest of MLB views him as a future big-leaguer or not.

Maybe Chris Hook can spot a thing or two and develop these guys a little bit. It's been known to happen.

[beekay414]

10 hours ago, LouisEly said:

How is picking up Wong's option a cost-cutting move?

To trade him and save $2 Million from the buyout.

[Eye Black]

I think there is a chance the Brewers are going to be shifting gears towards a greater emphasis on contact and speed in 2023. With the new rule changes (shift restrictions, larger bases, and limit on pickoff moves) I think there’s a reasonable argument to be made that balls in play and speed on the base paths could be an exploitable advantage as baseball adjusts to these new rules tweaks.

Speed is an important element to the overall profiles of many of the Brewers younger players such as Garrett Mitchell, Sal Frelick, Esteury Ruiz, and Brice Turang. Even the outfielder they picked up today, 26-year old Blake Perkins, reportedly has 60 grade speed according to scouting reports. The Brewers were tied for 10th overall in MLB in stolen bases per game last season. We’ll have to see how the remainder of the offseason plays out, but I think there’s a decent possibility the Brewers could be much more aggressive in putting pressure on opposing pitchers with their ability to run and steal. 

[Austin Tatious]

I couldn’t agree more, Eye Black.  I think that’s exactly where it’s headed.  The lack of shift should also help get some grounders through for singles.  I think CC sees this coming.  Limits on pick off attempts and larger bases as you said, can fit with the skill sets of our young guys 

[MadThinker88]

1 hour ago, Eye Black said:

I think there is a chance the Brewers are going to be shifting gears towards a greater emphasis on contact and speed in 2023. With the new rule changes (shift restrictions, larger bases, and limit on pickoff moves) I think there’s a reasonable argument to be made that balls in play and speed on the base paths could be an exploitable advantage as baseball adjusts to these new rules tweaks.

Speed is an important element to the overall profiles of many of the Brewers younger players such as Garrett Mitchell, Sal Frelick, Esteury Ruiz, and Brice Turang. Even the outfielder they picked up today, 26-year old Blake Perkins, reportedly has 60 grade speed according to scouting reports. The Brewers were tied for 10th overall in MLB in stolen bases per game last season. We’ll have to see how the remainder of the offseason plays out, but I think there’s a decent possibility the Brewers could be much more aggressive in putting pressure on opposing pitchers with their ability to run and steal. 

So trying to follow the model laid-out by 2022 CLE???

If so the ability to do (or not do) the little things (in all facets of the game) gets magnified. 

Stealing bases is nice but the success percentage for stealing is just as important.  Can't let the success rate be under 80%. 

[homer]

7 hours ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Nice strawman (the absolute lowest form of internet posting after trolling). Hope you enjoyed the like you got on this post from an team apologist. Who compared Hunter Renfroe to Mike Trout? My post literally said: "It's easy to see why the Brewers were looking to move Renfroe rather than pay what he'll get this year but they didn't have to trade him for Junk.".

Very few if any here are taking exception to the idea of trading Renfroe. They simply see the folly in trading a useful major league hitter for non prospects who have the added plus of being old. It would not be difficult to do better than this deal.

can you maybe make a post about something without denigrating other posters? ragging on someone for liking a post is pretty sad. you don't like a trade? fine. just state why you don't like the trade and not why you think everyone else is so dumb for thinking otherwise. 

 

[BlightyBrew]

10 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Maybe in your world. But where I come from, namely, reality, that isn't even close to the case.

Then you have the utmost sympathy for you and your family from me, life must be very hard for you.

[Brewcrew82]

54 minutes ago, BlightyBrew said:

Then you have the utmost sympathy for you and your family from me, life must be very hard for you.

My family and I are fine thank you very much. 

I realize you’re new around here, but I would strongly encourage you to think more before you post. 

[wntrtxn21]

1 hour ago, BlightyBrew said:

Then you have the utmost sympathy for you and your family from me, life must be very hard for you.

BrightyBrew why would you post such crap? It's totally uncalled for.  This site is for fans to express their opinions. I enjoy seeing everybody's ideas, yours included. You make some interesting points. However, there is no room on this site for the personal garbage like you posted. If you disagree then state your case and let the rest of us state our replies... I will now jump down from my soapbox and return to my regular duties.  

[BlightyBrew]

26 minutes ago, wntrtxn21 said:

BrightyBrew why would you post such crap? It's totally uncalled for.  This site is for fans to express their opinions. I enjoy seeing everybody's ideas, yours included. You make some interesting points. However, there is no room on this site for the personal garbage like you posted. If you disagree then state your case and let the rest of us state our replies... I will now jump down from my soapbox and return to my regular duties.  

I believe they started it they said my opinion on a topic wasn't based on reality and that I don't live in the real world.  I was only defending myself.

However, if this offended or upset you I do apologize.  My intent is not to upset people.

[BlightyBrew]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

My family and I are fine thank you very much. 

I realize you’re new around here, but I would strongly encourage you to think more before you post. 

I'm glad you and your family are well.  That was intended as a lighthearted comment that I was hoping would bring levity.  I see I failed miserably. 

However, I do take issue with the fact that you should tell anyone what they should think(more or less or not) and whether or not they should post said thoughts.  As though their thoughts/opinions are secondary to your own self by denigrating those thoughts as if it's not in reality or living in the "real" world.   If you don't like a post do not respond or in a manner that doesn't seem to put one person in a lesser place than the responder.  My post was true.  On one level this was a salary dump.  That is a true statement.  Now whether you chose to view that as an absolute truth or view it in the complete series of events that might happen is your choice to explain the situation is your choice.  Neither view is wrong.

The sheer arrogance of some people to deem that their thoughts are superior to anyone others.  The hypocrisy of it is galling.

[Eye Black]

12 hours ago, MadThinker88 said:

Stealing bases is nice but the success percentage for stealing is just as important.  Can't let the success rate be under 80%. 

Among position players that could reasonably see time in Milwaukee next season below are the top 2022 stolen base totals/percentages (combined stats across both MiLB and MLB). With the new rule changes geared towards increasing stolen bases I would expect these numbers to improve a bit in 2023.

2022 Stolen Base Percentages (MLB & MiLB stats combined)

Garrett Mitchell (SB: 25 / CS: 1): 96%

 

Brice Turang (SB: 34 / CS: 2): 95%

 

Joey Wiemer (SB: 31 / CS: 3): 91%

 

Blake Perkins (SB: 21 / CS: 2): 91%

 

Christian Yelich (SB: 19 / CS: 3): 86%

 

Esteury Ruiz (SB: 86 / CS: 16): 84%

 

Sal Frelick (SB: 24 / CS: 8): 80%

 

Willy Adames (SB: 8 / CS: 3): 73%

[areacodes]

4 hours ago, BlightyBrew said:

The sheer arrogance of some people to deem that their thoughts are superior to anyone others.  The hypocrisy of it is galling.

It sure seems to me that you’ve been engaging in this as well. Unintentionally ironic comment unless the last sentence included self-reflection on your part.

Brewerfan has always been a message board that is different from the majority of fan boards in that the focus has always been on supporting your opinions with facts or explaining your thought process and not resorting to personal attacks - this thread has gone slightly off the rails as many posters (not only you Blighty) seem to be forgetting that.

Anyway, I hope everybody has a safe and happy Thanksgiving spending time with family (or without if that makes it more enjoyable).

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Ruiz had 86 SB / 16 CS last year (84%).  Its also reasonable to think those SB% will increase next year.  The Brewers are well primed to take advantage of the new rule changes.

[MadThinker88]

2 hours ago, Eye Black said:

Among position players that could reasonably see time in Milwaukee next season below are the top 2022 stolen base totals/percentages (combined stats across both MiLB and MLB). With the new rule changes geared towards increasing stolen bases I would expect these numbers to improve a bit in 2023.

2022 Stolen Base Percentages (MLB & MiLB stats combined)

Garrett Mitchell (SB: 25 / CS: 1): 96%

 

Brice Turang (SB: 34 / CS: 2): 95%

 

Joey Wiemer (SB: 31 / CS: 3): 91%

 

Blake Perkins (SB: 21 / CS: 2): 91%

 

Christian Yelich (SB: 19 / CS: 3): 86%

 

Esteury Ruiz (SB: 49 / CS: 11): 82%

 

Sal Frelick (SB: 24 / CS: 8): 80%

 

Willy Adames (SB: 8 / CS: 3): 73%

I completely get your response.  Fingers crossed that the success of last season (wherever at) translates to this upcoming season with MKE. 

I was unclear earlier as I was referring to the overall team percentage.  In 2022, CLE had 119 steals as a team & a combined 27 caught stealing.  That put the club around a 81.5% success rate. 

 Yes Texas swiped more bases (128) but they also had 41 caught stealing for a little under 76% success rate.

I believe that we are in agreement that the desire and attempts to gets extra bases & moving up into a better position must be balanced with caution of creating extra outs and allowing the opposition to get out of a jam easier..

[jw5511986]

5 hours ago, BlightyBrew said:

The sheer arrogance of some people to deem that their thoughts are superior to anyone others.  The hypocrisy of it is galling.

Ok but what about when my thoughts actually are superior to everyone elses?

[Grabkoj]

On 11/22/2022 at 9:43 PM, DR28 said:

What is this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Traded our most productive hitter... We better be signing a big bat!

Like what are we doing??????? First Hader trade and now this, really isnt speaking volumes of wanting to compete... My god the NL Central is so winnable!

They wouldn’t be doing this if they felt Wiemer, Frelick, and Ruiz are ready to contribute 

I have a feeling the Brewers will be trading a few other pieces such as Wong and maybe Tellez and sign stop gap guys

They will probably get a Catcher like Vasquez or Sanchez that’s offensive minded 

I believe they’re going with speed and defense while keeping their pitching in tact 

[monty57]

12 minutes ago, Grabkoj said:

They wouldn’t be doing this if they felt Wiemer, Frelick, and Ruiz are ready to contribute 

I have a feeling the Brewers will be trading a few other pieces such as Wong and maybe Tellez and sign stop gap guys

They will probably get a Catcher like Vasquez or Sanchez that’s offensive minded 

I believe they’re going with speed and defense while keeping their pitching in tact 

I disagree. I think they felt that Renfroe was expendable because they feel Frelick is ready. 
 

If they were throwing in the towel, they would trade Burnes, Woodruff, and Adames. Renfroe is a roughly-average MLB player set to make $11M in his final year of team control.
 

They would have held onto him if they needed him, but thankfully they have MLB-ready top prospects who can step in. This saved the team a lot of money and hopefully brought back some guys who can help out a bit now and for the next 5-6 years. 

[Eye Black]

1 hour ago, ClosetBrewerFan said:

Ruiz had 86 SB / 16 CS last year (84%).  Its also reasonable to think those SB% will increase next year.  The Brewers are well primed to take advantage of the new rule changes.

Good catch, I’ll update the list.