What would you do to shake up the Brewers' offense?

[Jake McKibbin]

Just to clarify, Hiura hasn't registered many high exit velos yet since coming back, and being the hitter he is, he'll need a couple of weeks after two months off to find his form and confidence at the plate, naturally. I'd see if he's doing better by the end of next week in the way he can do at AA, but anything this sample since coming back is probably not an indicator. And I think it's really important he feels on fire and comfortable before coming back to the majors, so I'd maybe say all star break ish if he gets brought up at the earliest

Frelick is similar, just needs a little more time to iron out the inconsistencies and get dialled in again.

Turang has been hitting hard down there, which surprised me, but he's also been a little sloppy in the field, I wonder if he is tweaking his swing to access a little more power atm, also noticing an increase in strikeouts

[SF70]

1 hour ago, Jake McKibbin said:

Just to clarify, Hiura hasn't registered many high exit velos yet since coming back, and being the hitter he is, he'll need a couple of weeks after two months off to find his form and confidence at the plate, naturally. I'd see if he's doing better by the end of next week in the way he can do at AA, but anything this sample since coming back is probably not an indicator. And I think it's really important he feels on fire and comfortable before coming back to the majors, so I'd maybe say all star break ish if he gets brought up at the earliest

Frelick is similar, just needs a little more time to iron out the inconsistencies and get dialled in again.

Turang has been hitting hard down there, which surprised me, but he's also been a little sloppy in the field, I wonder if he is tweaking his swing to access a little more power atm, also noticing an increase in strikeouts

In 53 PA’s, Turang is sporting a 17% K-rate, so a little lower than last year’s K-rate of near 20%. So he’s hitting the ball harder, without increasing his K’s, at least in the early going. 

His 4 errors in the field is what’s surprising, since he had zero with MKE.

[Ro Mueller]

I didn't even realize that we were this egregiously bad against LHP. Holy mackerel. A league-low .649 OPS for our Crew, with the Twins second-worst at .666, a league average of .738 and the Braves atop at .899 (with some guy named Orlando Arcia producing a 1.306 OPS against LHP).

[Outlander]

Yep, one of the reasons I think they have to keep Perkins/Monasterio on this team until they get upgrades. It is basically Wiemer/Contreras/Perkins/Monasterio and Miller that can hit LHP.

[Matt Breen]

I'm not sure what we can really do for the offense. Just so bad. But here's a go:

1. Trade (if possible) or release Tellez and Winker. They are sunk costs. They aren't long term guys. They aren't that good even when things are going well for them. 

2. Give Hiura another chance. Just bring him up and say, "You're our DH for the next three months. Show us what you can do."

3. Trade for Boston's Justin Turner. This is assuming the Sox fall out of contention. He could play 1B and DH with Hiura. Otherwise, try and find an older player - even a 2-3 month rental. Someone who won't cost a ton. Just provide decent production at 1B without costing a ton.

4. Call up Frelick. Move him to CF, Wiemer to RF. 

C - Contreras/Caratini - Fine here.
1B - Turner or someone like him.
2B - Miller - He's doing well. See if he can sustain it and be a part of the future.
SS - Adams - No better option. Just gotta hope he catches fire at some point
3B - Urias - Not been good, but hope he can get his stuff together.
LF - Yelich - Doing great.
CF - Frelick - Time of make the move
RF - Wiemer - Doing okay. Just hope he keeps improving. 
DH - Hiura
Reserves - Perkins, Anderson, Monasterio, Tapia

I think this team is bad offensively - so let's jettison the dead weight and players with no future. Let's roll the dice on some young guys. 

I know I've probably got too many right handers - but whatever. It's just for fun. And Hiura usually has hit righties better than lefties. 

Just a thought.

[Jopal78]

3 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

I'm not sure what we can really do for the offense. Just so bad. But here's a go:

1. Trade (if possible) or release Tellez and Winker. They are sunk costs. They aren't long term guys. They aren't that good even when things are going well for them. 

2. Give Hiura another chance. Just bring him up and say, "You're our DH for the next three months. Show us what you can do."

3. Trade for Boston's Justin Turner. This is assuming the Sox fall out of contention. He could play 1B and DH with Hiura. Otherwise, try and find an older player - even a 2-3 month rental. Someone who won't cost a ton. Just provide decent production at 1B without costing a ton.

4. Call up Frelick. Move him to CF, Wiemer to RF. 

C - Contreras/Caratini - Fine here.
1B - Turner or someone like him.
2B - Miller - He's doing well. See if he can sustain it and be a part of the future.
SS - Adams - No better option. Just gotta hope he catches fire at some point
3B - Urias - Not been good, but hope he can get his stuff together.
LF - Yelich - Doing great.
CF - Frelick - Time of make the move
RF - Wiemer - Doing okay. Just hope he keeps improving. 
DH - Hiura
Reserves - Perkins, Anderson, Monasterio, Tapia

I think this team is bad offensively - so let's jettison the dead weight and players with no future. Let's roll the dice on some young guys. 

I know I've probably got too many right handers - but whatever. It's just for fun. And Hiura usually has hit righties better than lefties. 

Just a thought.

Turner has a 13.4 million dollar player option for ‘24. If he is traded, he won’t be coming to Milwaukee. 
 

Turner has an .806 OPS, “someone like him” means trading for a pretty good hitter which will cost considerable assets

Though I do agree on Winker. I would have DFA’d him when his rehab assignment was up. 

[BrewerFan]

On 6/25/2023 at 8:19 PM, tonyei31 said:

I don't think anything changes but a different voice/look/etc. is about all that can help this offense, especially a veteran hitting coach..  I also wonder if Counsell's message has gotten old/stagnant.  No different than Mike McCarthy with the Packers, Bud with the bucks.  Can be great coaches/managers but eventually the message isn't responded to.  Outside of a new voice our offense is what it is.  Some guys might improve but at this point we are halfway through the season.  The 2023 versions of Winker/Adames/Tellez are more likely what they are vs what we expect.  

It's not a play calling issue of a schematic issue, it's players who have traditionally been good hitters, Adames, Winker, Tellez, Urias, all struggling.

Add to that the injuries to the staff...

The team plays loose, they're aggressive. I don't think the message has gotten stale. I think those players start pressing and it just builds on itself. But I don't think changing managers does anything. 

We've focused on a different type of position player the last 3-5 years and we're on the precipice of seeing those efforts come to fruition, but you can't blame the manager when you have good hitters just not hitting and then you planned for some players to be average or worse.

[umphrey]

Revamp the entire system from the scouting department to the minor league development to the major league hitting coaching to the actual players on the roster

[SF70]

11 minutes ago, umphrey said:

Revamp the entire system from the scouting department to the minor league development to the major league hitting coaching to the actual players on the roster

No.

BrewerFan is right, the team is on the precipice of being able to transform the offense with prospect talent for the first time under this FO.

A year from now things will be different. Progress will be seen. 

[helderwieling]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:44 AM, BrewerFan said:

It's not a play calling issue of a schematic issue, it's players who have traditionally been good hitters, Adames, Winker, Tellez, Urias, all struggling.

Add to that the injuries to the staff...

The team plays loose, they're aggressive. I don't think the message has gotten stale. I think those players start pressing and it just builds on itself. But I don't think changing managers does anything. 

We've focused on a different type of position player the last 3-5 years and we're on the precipice of seeing those efforts come to fruition, but you can't blame the manager when you have good hitters just not hitting and then you planned for some players to be average or worse.

It's all very interesting if you look very closely. Sometimes I prefer to put it all out of my mind and read something else. I like one entertainment site that has a lot of interesting information about online real money gambling. You might want to check it out as well. You might want to get it all out of your head too.

If there are good hitters who just not hitting, they are no longer good hitters.

[jay87shot]

Would a Burnes for Goldschmidt trade work on any level? Both have 1.5 years and will be similar salaries assuming Burnes gets a nice raise offseason. Burnes doesn't help the Cards much this year but would go a long way to helping their rotation. It would also open up a position for Gorman to play long term. We might need a bit extra in the way of a mid prospect or two since Burnes is younger. 

First thing to do to shake up the team needs to be to fire both hitting coaches. With the college season over there has to be 1 interesting candidate who could take over immediately.

Then I would look at cutting some dead weight, Winker, Anderson, and maybe Rowdy if we could get a decent 1st base option. 

I am leaning towards trading Burnes or maybe Peralta around the deadline when Woody is back just to get some upside bat. I like the Justin Turner idea a lot.

[BrewerFan]

7 hours ago, helderwieling said:

If there are good hitters who just not hitting, they are no longer good hitters.

Ok, I'm not really interested in how big of a sample size before you determine a good hitter who's struggling isn't a good hitter anymore as the actual point I was making isn't changed at all. A new "voice" isn't going to make them suddenly start hitting. 

You can't motivate people into hitting in Baseball. They try harder and they're likely going to struggle more.

[Jim French Stepstool]

19 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

I'm not sure what we can really do for the offense. Just so bad. But here's a go:

1. Trade (if possible) or release Tellez and Winker. They are sunk costs. They aren't long term guys. They aren't that good even when things are going well for them. 

2. Give Hiura another chance. Just bring him up and say, "You're our DH for the next three months. Show us what you can do."

3. Trade for Boston's Justin Turner. This is assuming the Sox fall out of contention. He could play 1B and DH with Hiura. Otherwise, try and find an older player - even a 2-3 month rental. Someone who won't cost a ton. Just provide decent production at 1B without costing a ton.

4. Call up Frelick. Move him to CF, Wiemer to RF. 

C - Contreras/Caratini - Fine here.
1B - Turner or someone like him.
2B - Miller - He's doing well. See if he can sustain it and be a part of the future.
SS - Adams - No better option. Just gotta hope he catches fire at some point
3B - Urias - Not been good, but hope he can get his stuff together.
LF - Yelich - Doing great.
CF - Frelick - Time of make the move
RF - Wiemer - Doing okay. Just hope he keeps improving. 
DH - Hiura
Reserves - Perkins, Anderson, Monasterio, Tapia

I think this team is bad offensively - so let's jettison the dead weight and players with no future. Let's roll the dice on some young guys. 

I know I've probably got too many right handers - but whatever. It's just for fun. And Hiura usually has hit righties better than lefties. 

Just a thought.

It doesn't look promising either way right now, but I'd prefer Anderson at 3B over Urias. As lost as he's looked I think there's a better chance of him figuring it out & giving us some production. I've always liked the plate discipline Urias shows but it just isn't translating into positive results. Plus, as solid as Urias has looked with the glove Anderson can be a difference-maker there. He's won us games defensively.

I like Wiemer in RF, that's clearly where his future lies. I just don't think we'll see it in 2023.

They're really stuck as far as 1B is concerned. Unless there's a trade (I don't believe Turner is happening) you might wind up hoping Urias figures something out, gets entrenched at 2B & Miller plays 1B most days. Geez, how far has Tellez fallen if that happens?

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, jay87shot said:

 

First thing to do to shake up the team needs to be to fire both hitting coaches. With the college season over there has to be 1 interesting candidate who could take over immediately.

 

This is a move that happens quite often in-season in baseball. And while it doesn't change the talent level, it CAN work. Change for changes' sake sometimes works in sports. The problem here is that I think it's usually preferable to go in-house for a replacement, and as I've touched on before I question the quality of the hitting instruction in the system. 

I'd love to know what the workload is with the 2 hitting coaches.......exactly who is responsible for what?

Then again, the other day Rottino (or was it Levering) said their hitting coaches were "phenomenal" or something like that.

[Jim French Stepstool]

8 hours ago, SF70 said:

No.

BrewerFan is right, the team is on the precipice of being able to transform the offense with prospect talent for the first time under this FO.

A year from now things will be different. Progress will be seen. 

I agree that there seems to be a philosophical difference when looking at the recent drafting. And it's a change I welcome.

[Outlander]

At this point would turnover much of the bats or sell. Would look elsewhere at 1B/DH/3B/RF even though that is asking a lot. Play the hotter of Urias/Miller at 2B and perhaps even start working Turang back in, call up Frelick/Hiura. Like the idea of a player like Turner even if it is not him, don't have faith in Anderson anymore, would dump him and trade for Candelerio, an upcoming free agent.

[umphrey]

8 hours ago, SF70 said:

No.

BrewerFan is right, the team is on the precipice of being able to transform the offense with prospect talent for the first time under this FO.

A year from now things will be different. Progress will be seen. 

I don’t know about that, the only bright spot right now is Wiemer and that’s debatable considering his .215/.282/.414 line. Can’t even claim Frelick or Chourio are coming to save us right now since they are both sporting below average lines in 2023. 

[BrewerFan]

20 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

I'm not sure what we can really do for the offense. Just so bad. But here's a go:

1. Trade (if possible) or release Tellez and Winker. They are sunk costs. They aren't long term guys. They aren't that good even when things are going well for them. 

 

I'd have said that about Tellez, but Winker was one season removed from being an really good hitter. He was a terrible OFer which is why I thought DH would be a good fit. Both have seen their hard hit % and EV's drop quite a bit though(Winker especially back to '21). 

36 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I like Wiemer in RF, that's clearly where his future lies. I just don't think we'll see it in 2023.

Is it though? He's been one of the best defensive CFers in baseball...

[Jim French Stepstool]

36 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

 

Is it though? He's been one of the best defensive CFers in baseball...

IMO, absolutely. He's a very good CF'er. I believe he would be a GG caliber RF.

[brewers888]

Forget this season the problem is due to incredibly poor drafting of position players. Instead of looking for positional flexibility we need to start drafting better hitters. The amount of high picks we have used on weak hitting middle infielders is staggering and a big reason why the system has produced almost no legitimate bats over the last decade.

[sveumrules]

46 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

The amount of high picks we have used on weak hitting middle infielders is staggering and a big reason why the system has produced almost no legitimate bats over the last decade.

2016: 1st MIF selected round 8, pick 231 (Francisco Thomas)

2017: Hiura drafted round 1, pick 9 (wasn't projected as a weak hitting middle IF), next MIF drafted was round 6, pick 174 (Devin Hairston)

2018: Brice Turang drafted round 1, pick 21 (is weak hitting, but has made MLB on the strength of his defense), next MIF drafted was round 12, pick 365 (Korry Howell)

2019: 1st MIF selected round 8. pick 253 (David Hamilton) traded for Renfroe, has made MLB with Red Sox

2020: 1st MIF selected round 2, pick 53 (Freddy Zamora, currently in AA) also drafted Hayden Cantrelle round 5, pick 151

2021: First MIF selected round 2, pick 33 (Tyler Black, announced as 2B, currently 3B tearing up Biloxi), next MIF round 5, pick 147 Ethan Murray

2022: EBJ (r1, p27), Robert Moore (r2, p72) and Dylan O'Rae (r3, p102) picked as MIF in the early rounds.

The only high picks Stearns & company used on weak hitting middle infielders prior to 2022 were Turang in 2018 and Zamora in 2020. Hiura and Black were both drafted for their bats. I wouldn't qualify any of the others as high picks.

[wiguy94]

12 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

2016: 1st MIF selected round 8, pick 231 (Francisco Thomas)

2017: Hiura drafted round 1, pick 9 (wasn't projected as a weak hitting middle IF), next MIF drafted was round 6, pick 174 (Devin Hairston)

2018: Brice Turang drafted round 1, pick 21 (is weak hitting, but has made MLB on the strength of his defense), next MIF drafted was round 12, pick 365 (Korry Howell)

2019: 1st MIF selected round 8. pick 253 (David Hamilton) traded for Renfroe, has made MLB with Red Sox

2020: 1st MIF selected round 2, pick 53 (Freddy Zamora, currently in AA) also drafted Hayden Cantrelle round 5, pick 151

2021: First MIF selected round 2, pick 33 (Tyler Black, announced as 2B, currently 3B tearing up Biloxi), next MIF round 5, pick 147 Ethan Murray

2022: EBJ (r1, p27), Robert Moore (r2, p72) and Dylan O'Rae (r3, p102) picked as MIF in the early rounds.

The only high picks Stearns & company used on weak hitting middle infielders prior to 2022 were Turang in 2018 and Zamora in 2020. Hiura and Black were both drafted for their bats. I wouldn't qualify any of the others as high picks.

You and your pesky facts sveumrules!

[Jopal78]

47 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

2016: 1st MIF selected round 8, pick 231 (Francisco Thomas)

2017: Hiura drafted round 1, pick 9 (wasn't projected as a weak hitting middle IF), next MIF drafted was round 6, pick 174 (Devin Hairston)

2018: Brice Turang drafted round 1, pick 21 (is weak hitting, but has made MLB on the strength of his defense), next MIF drafted was round 12, pick 365 (Korry Howell)

2019: 1st MIF selected round 8. pick 253 (David Hamilton) traded for Renfroe, has made MLB with Red Sox

2020: 1st MIF selected round 2, pick 53 (Freddy Zamora, currently in AA) also drafted Hayden Cantrelle round 5, pick 151

2021: First MIF selected round 2, pick 33 (Tyler Black, announced as 2B, currently 3B tearing up Biloxi), next MIF round 5, pick 147 Ethan Murray

2022: EBJ (r1, p27), Robert Moore (r2, p72) and Dylan O'Rae (r3, p102) picked as MIF in the early rounds.

The only high picks Stearns & company used on weak hitting middle infielders prior to 2022 were Turang in 2018 and Zamora in 2020. Hiura and Black were both drafted for their bats. I wouldn't qualify any of the others as high picks.

I think maybe the original poster meant “up the middle players with positional versatility” which would include CFers, and thus the list in the first round would be: Brown, Frelick, Black, Mitchell, Turang, Hiura, Lutz, Ray and 2nd rounders Moore, Zamora, Gray and Bello. Then O’Rae, Binelas (traded) Warren and KJ Harrison(traded)in the 3rd. 
 

True, some are known as being bat first players but if you go back and look at organizational comments from the time most are also touted equally if not more for positional versatility. 
 

As many of these players have been busts/disappointments it’s fair to wonder if focusing on positional versatility over straight hit tools was a sound strategy.

[brewers888]

Xavier Warren was another guy picked solely on positional flexibility. We have failed in developing any good hitters for a decade. Kudos to the organization with how they’ve consistently found pitching but the bats have been lacking for years.

[umphrey]

There have been a lot of opportunities to acquire hard hitting 1B/3B/LF/DH over the past couple of years and they have chosen to go bargain bin shopping over and over again instead and get Contreras/Urias/Adames/etc instead. It’s clearly been an organizational strategy that has lead to a bottom 3 offense this year.