2023-24 Offseason Ideas

[BrewerFan]

18 hours ago, LincolnDD said:

Maybe it's changed (this Tweet is nearly two years old), but there used to be a limit of one for the number of execs one team could take from another.  

 

I also have gotten the impression that Eppler isn't going anywhere. He's a year removed from a 100+ win team. They just had a bad year. They had fluke injuries and they relied on old pitchers, but...why wouldn't you think Verlander and Scherzer would pitch well this year?

I'm definitely worried that Stearns is going to take some guys with him. Not multiple executives, but obsessing over who exactly leaves is pointless.

And you don't build a farm system like this with just ONE guy. They're now an infrastructure in place. We can thank Stearns for much of that, Attanasio for investing in it, but I don't believe it's so fragile, it won't survive the New York Mets. 

[LincolnDD]

16 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

I also have gotten the impression that Eppler isn't going anywhere. He's a year removed from a 100+ win team. They just had a bad year. They had fluke injuries and they relied on old pitchers, but...why wouldn't you think Verlander and Scherzer would pitch well this year?

I'm definitely worried that Stearns is going to take some guys with him. Not multiple executives, but obsessing over who exactly leaves is pointless.

And you don't build a farm system like this with just ONE guy. They're now an infrastructure in place. We can thank Stearns for much of that, Attanasio for investing in it, but I don't believe it's so fragile, it won't survive the New York Mets. 

Ditto, I think Eppler stays.  I've read he and Stearns are close, anyway, so I don't think he's going to go in and complete tear down everything Eppler has done and the people he's put in place, at least not immediately. 

So I don't think that we'll see too many guys from the front office go. I'd be more wary of Stearns trying to bring Counsell over (don't think it would happen though).  I don't know what happened in NY to take that 100 win team and turn it into what it was pre-deadline, but I'd clean out the field staff that's been running things and start fresh if I were Stearns.

I hope you all have a great day.

[wallus]

I think with where we are at, I would tear it down for next year and let the young guys sink/swim. That means I would trade Burnes, Woodruff, Adames and Williams assuming you can get 6-7 Top 100 guys. I know this would completely go against the bites of the apple approach but a one year reset would be fine with me. At the very worst, Burnes has to be traded.

We have guys like Houser, Lauer and Rowdy that I would flip at the deadline for even more pieces (assuming they perform well) Give Tyler Black a starting position and not get concerned if he struggles like most rookies do. I would also bring up Chourio after the deadline to get his feet wet.

In the rare event that the team would be competitive, you would have a ton of ammo to add if you want. Otherwise you have a clean payroll and can really put together a team in 2025.

[jay87shot]

What about Robbie Ray from the Mariners. The M's have a massive amount of young pitching and could probably pay down some of Ray's contract. Ray would be a bit of a risk but our pitching team would work well with him and we would be buying low. Say something like Ray and Ty France for Garrett Mitchell and another prospect/player depending on how much of Ray's salary the M's take on.

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, jay87shot said:

What about Robbie Ray from the Mariners. The M's have a massive amount of young pitching and could probably pay down some of Ray's contract. Ray would be a bit of a risk but our pitching team would work well with him and we would be buying low. Say something like Ray and Ty France for Garrett Mitchell and another prospect/player depending on how much of Ray's salary the M's take on.

That's an interesting idea. I'd need Seattle to take on 50M of that though. At that point, is it really worth it? He won't be back 100% likely until '25. That'd give you two years...

That'd be kinda planning for year 2 of Chourio, Black, 3 of Frelick, Wiemer...etc...

But is Seattle gonna pay 50M to let him walk? I don't know...maybe Seattle wants to go all in on Ohtani and stay out of the luxury tax next year and the Brewers take his salary next year and the Mariners pay it the following two years? 

I'm not a particular fan of France. I think you've got a better version of him in Black. You're not getting a big defensive upgrade from France to Black, so...just roll with Black.

[BrewerFan]

10 hours ago, wallus said:

I think with where we are at, I would tear it down for next year and let the young guys sink/swim. That means I would trade Burnes, Woodruff, Adames and Williams assuming you can get 6-7 Top 100 guys. I know this would completely go against the bites of the apple approach but a one year reset would be fine with me. At the very worst, Burnes has to be traded.

We have guys like Houser, Lauer and Rowdy that I would flip at the deadline for even more pieces (assuming they perform well) Give Tyler Black a starting position and not get concerned if he struggles like most rookies do. I would also bring up Chourio after the deadline to get his feet wet.

In the rare event that the team would be competitive, you would have a ton of ammo to add if you want. Otherwise you have a clean payroll and can really put together a team in 2025.

This is exactly what I'd do. And I could see that team having a Reds like season(I think the Reds will fade, but they've certainly got their fan base excited).

I'm taking it a step further with regard to Yelich, but...my opinion has already been rebuffed on here with regard to that, so...I'll let that go😏

[jay87shot]

2 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

This is exactly what I'd do. And I could see that team having a Reds like season(I think the Reds will fade, but they've certainly got their fan base excited).

I'm taking it a step further with regard to Yelich, but...my opinion has already been rebuffed on here with regard to that, so...I'll let that go😏

I am against trading Yelich, however there is always a deal that would work. If we could get a proven middle of the order bat, a second piece, and out from the long term deal the team would have to think about it.

I can't think of anything that really fits but say George Springer, Alex Manoah, and a prospect for Yeli and Houser. Obviously that is a stretch for both teams but we get, a solid bat with some money but 2 less years and an upside pitcher who has struggled.

Maybe when Ohtani leaves LAA the Angels trade Trout. Even through he is hurt Trout (Angels pay like 5-10 million a year) for Yelich, Mitchell, and Ashby sounds intrueging to me. Again never ever happening.

The Twins for Byron Buxton and Royce Lewis we add in a prospect like EBJ. I probably like this the best. Buxton could DH and play OF occasionally and Lewis seems blocked by Correa and Julian. (I don't want anything to do with Correa).

[BrewerFan]

22 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

I am against trading Yelich, however there is always a deal that would work. If we could get a proven middle of the order bat, a second piece, and out from the long term deal the team would have to think about it.

I can't think of anything that really fits but say George Springer, Alex Manoah, and a prospect for Yeli and Houser. Obviously that is a stretch for both teams but we get, a solid bat with some money but 2 less years and an upside pitcher who has struggled.

Maybe when Ohtani leaves LAA the Angels trade Trout. Even through he is hurt Trout (Angels pay like 10 million a year) for Yelich, Mitchell, and Adames sounds intrueging to me. Again never ever happening.

I don't think Trout is going anywhere(and I really doubt the Angels would pay for the privilege). He's still the best player in the game outside of Anaheim IMO. 6.3 WAR last year despite the injury. 

I think the Angels will want him there for his chase for 500, 600 HRs, maybe if he can stay healthy, 3,000 hits(that's a bit of a reach, but could easily have a Molly like resurgence. It's still well within reason.

He IS injury prone, but still 96th percentile in the league in sprint speed and I think the same in barrel rate. So...hell, if we could get him, I'd be giddy. I'd have him in LF and DH about 50/50. 

 

As for Yelich, I'd just trade him to hopefully get a couple of nice, younger prospects, bust mostly to get out from the deal(as I said, deferred money and all). I'd definitely take Alek Manoah back in return. 25 year old #2/3 starter? I know it's never going to happen. Yelich is gonna be a Brewer until he's 37 and they'll pay him ~2.4M for about 10 years after that. And that's probably a good thing. If you get one or two more years like this, then just a good OBP or '21 Yelly, you are getting your money's worth.

But my thinking wasn't to get MLB ready talent back. We've got that either here or arriving shortly. It was just that I'd rather have an OF of Frelick/Wiemer/Mitchell/Chourio with Perkins, maybe Carlos Rodriguez in a year or so and then a clean payroll. It's more about imagining what the 2026 Brewers could look like. Misiorowski, Peralta, Ashby, Gasser, Rodriguez...Uribe, Payamps, Peguero...

Guys like Pratt, Bitonti, Yophery, Lara, Guilarte(who knows who else) on the verge, Frelick(CF), Quero(C), Chourio(LF), Wilken(3B), Wiemer(RF), Black(2B), Boeve(1B) Turang(SS). 

 

And at that time...the Brewers would(will) owe Yelich almost exactly what they paid Cain over the next 3 season. Nobody wants to give up a player like Yelly when they're rolling, but that's the only time you can make a clean break. And hell, maybe the Angels are willing to trade Nolan Schanuel and that prep arm they went way over slot to get Barrett Kent. If they're desperate?

But I wouldn't do it for a player of comparable value or for Springer in return because...well, I like him and that'd defeat the purpose. What makes it less likely is that he's got a No-Trade Clause(Full I believe). But for Alek Manoah? Definitely. The Angels would be more likely. Imagine Yelich/Trout/Ohatni 1-3 in the lineup? The Angels are the perfect short term thinking type team. So are the Padres.

 

4 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

.I'll let that go

I guess I'll let the likelihood of it happening go, but I'll still defend the position...and wait for a year or three when everyone says, "too bad we didn't sell high on Yelich!"

[jay87shot]

I feel like Yeli should still be productive for a couple years and if he is a 4 WAR player he does have value. However in a trade we are still going to have take back some type of contract back. On top of that our non diehard fan base would be ticked if we trade most/all of our vets. I still prefer to hold him another year or two while he is productive and then trade him when he is a bit closer to 35.

[Jake McKibbin]

52 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

I feel like Yeli should still be productive for a couple years and if he is a 4 WAR player he does have value. However in a trade we are still going to have take back some type of contract back. On top of that our non diehard fan base would be ticked if we trade most/all of our vets. I still prefer to hold him another year or two while he is productive and then trade him when he is a bit closer to 35.

I think he has a no trade clause so it's a moot point unfortunately

[Lloyd330]

Definitely trading Burnes

Burnes for Foscue, Porter, White - Baeball trade valuse says slight over pay, but figuring Burnes value will go a little down in off season)

Adames - Trade him for whatever you can get - Seen enough 

Bring back Santana

Make 2024 the transition year

Lineup

Frelick - RF

Yelich - DH

Mitchell - RF

Contreras – C

Santana – 1B

Monasterio – SS

Black – 3B

Weimer – CF

Turang – 2B

 

Rotation

Woody

Peralta

Ashby

Houser

Miley

[edfunderburk]

I’d love to see Matt Chapman sign with the Brewers (dream - no doubt) to bring stability at 3B as well as a true #4 “clean up” batter in the line up

 

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, Lloyd330 said:

Definitely trading Burnes

Burnes for Foscue, Porter, White - Baeball trade valuse says slight over pay, but figuring Burnes value will go a little down in off season)

Adames - Trade him for whatever you can get - Seen enough 

Bring back Santana

Make 2024 the transition year

Lineup

Frelick - RF

Yelich - DH

Mitchell - RF

Contreras – C

Santana – 1B

Monasterio – SS

Black – 3B

Weimer – CF

Turang – 2B

 

Rotation

Woody

Peralta

Ashby

Houser

Miley

I would love to see Milwaukee go for broke & sign Matt Chapman to play 3rd & promote Tyler Black to play 1B

I would also rotate Wiemer with Frelick or another OF until he makes mechanical adjustments - I can’t take another season of watching his at bats without some adjustments 🥴

BTW - you have two players in RF & no one in LF

 

[BrewerFan]

On 8/9/2023 at 9:29 AM, jay87shot said:

I feel like Yeli should still be productive for a couple years and if he is a 4 WAR player he does have value. However in a trade we are still going to have take back some type of contract back. On top of that our non diehard fan base would be ticked if we trade most/all of our vets. I still prefer to hold him another year or two while he is productive and then trade him when he is a bit closer to 35.

Alright...I'm gonna really try to make this the last time I mention this because it's not gonna happen, but I don't think we would have to take a contract back. If he were a FA, you don't think he'd get 5/136.5 in free agency? I think he'd get at least that. 

And if you wait until he's closer to 35, then you will have to take back a bad contract...most likely for him. 

But if he's a 4 WAR player for the next couple years, It'd be great. But you're counting on his back and for him to physically hold up and I don't see enough evidence that he can. He's obviously feeling a whole lot better this year as he's moving well. The EV has remained steady, but, sprint speed, his arm from the OF. 

 

As for the non-diehards, if you win they'll come. Yelich was pubic enemy #1 for Brewers fans...which is kinda typical. The "he got paid and doesn't care," or the "he can't hit now that they're not giving him the pitch," nonsense that came from the Darvish situation(because a minor glance to see where the 2B is in the shift is proof of something).

I suppose that just tells you how fickle a lot of fans are, but I think they'd be happy with the young group they've got.

 

 

On 8/9/2023 at 10:22 AM, Jake McKibbin said:

I think he has a no trade clause so it's a moot point unfortunately

I don't know that it'd be moot. It might be...but he might also accept a trade to a team like the Angels IF they bring Ohtani back. Again, slots in so well from their perspective. Yelly/Trout/Ohtani...and I guess you hope Rendon comes back, but it'd be up to him. 

 

Now....we do all agree it's not gonna happen, especially when he's back. We may wish we did in a few years, or we may be celebrating a Brewers great who had a late career resurgence. We'll find out.

 

He's a really easy guy to root for, so this has nothing to do with wanting to see him gone or thinking THIS version of him isn't worth every penny he's making....just to be extra clear. 

[rickh150]

Trading Yelich for prospects and playing Chourio in LF could basically pay for 6 or 7 years of AmFam’s renovations! I know we don’t want to look at it this way, but my guess is another 150 million that the Brewers would contribute to the ballpark would matter a lot to the state, county, and city.

[rickh150]

And if we are indeed trading Burnes and more, I’m very ok with getting a couple top prospects (if possible) for Yelich. We have OF prospects and options galore for the next several years.

[sveumrules]

38 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

Trading Yelich for prospects and playing Chourio in LF could basically pay for 6 or 7 years of AmFam’s renovations! I know we don’t want to look at it this way, but my guess is another 150 million that the Brewers would contribute to the ballpark would matter a lot to the state, county, and city.

The stadium district is responsible for the AmFam repairs, not Mark A.

If Yelich waived his NTC, and if the Brewers found a trade partner willing to take on his entire contract, I would hope that money saved would be re-invested in the payroll.

[jay87shot]

I am still on board trading Williams for a big package but what about keeping Williams and trading high on Payamps?

Payamps has 3 years remaining so by no means would we need to trade him. I would guess this would depend a bit on how you feel about Payamps future (and Uribe's readiness). If you look at Joel as a closer for a year or two, probably no. 

I kind of like the idea of getting a better package than the M's got for Sewald. Keeping Williams 1 more year with Uribe in the 8th. Than trading Williams after 2024 and more effectively supporting Uribe's path.

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, sveumrules said:

The stadium district is responsible for the AmFam repairs, not Mark A.

If Yelich waived his NTC, and if the Brewers found a trade partner willing to take on his entire contract, I would hope that money saved would be re-invested in the payroll.

Right...this would be the only reason I'd do it.

2 hours ago, jay87shot said:

I am still on board trading Williams for a big package but what about keeping Williams and trading high on Payamps?

Yeah, they could, but I don't think Payamps has anywhere near the value and he's not going to cost anywhere near as much as Williams moving forward. So I don't think the return or the savings would make that work.

 

And again, it was more because I think teams that'll be in on Burnes like the Phils, Rangers...maybe the Dodgers, they'd be more inclined to trade an elite pitching prospect who's in AA if they're getting back 2 years of a closer on top of 1 year of Burnes. Painter+2/3 other younger arms or Porter or...whoever.

This would be not punting on '24, but it's be approaching it more like the O's did to '22. Let the young guys play, get their feet wet and then hopefully the following year you're really hitting. Though for all the fans who think Mark A is cheap, the O's owner is worth 5X Attanasio, they generate more revenue and they're still not spending money. 

[KeithStone53151]

One thing I've seen quite often regarding Burnes and Woodruff, is that we should let Burnes go because he's too expensive but give Woodruff a big fat extension. I really don't think that will happen nor is it a viable strategy. While Burnes is probably looking at $35M per year, Woodruff is older and probably still looking at $25M per year minimum, and probably a 4-5 year investment. We'd be tying up over 1/3 of our likely payroll in 2 players. Woodruff specifically I anticipate could age poorly as well. I don't view his off-speed stuff as THAT good. I'm concerned he becomes a back of rotation starter if his fastball velocity drops from 96 to 93. It's certainly risky to make that level of investment in a pitcher that will be 32 when he pitches for the first time beyond our team control.

As far as what to do with Burnes/Woodruff, I think the Brewers will listen to offers but I don't know that we NEED to trade them this offseason. Next year we could go for a boom/bust type year with Mitchell and Chourio hitting the majors and hopefully sparking the offense. Frelick/Turang/Wiemer will have a year of experience at the MLB level and hopefully will be better hitting in 2024. I think we could make moves around the edges at 3b, 1b, backup catcher, relief, etc...and make another run with effectively this squad in 2024. If we start poorly, we can firesale at the deadline. Looking at what guys like Verlander and Scherzer got at the deadline this year are good comps for what Woodruff/Burnes could get next year. If those 2 go, I think Williams goes too and would fetch a quite massive haul

[BrewerFan]

4 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

One thing I've seen quite often regarding Burnes and Woodruff, is that we should let Burnes go because he's too expensive but give Woodruff a big fat extension. I really don't think that will happen nor is it a viable strategy. While Burnes is probably looking at $35M per year, Woodruff is older and probably still looking at $25M per year minimum, and probably a 4-5 year investment. We'd be tying up over 1/3 of our likely payroll in 2 players. Woodruff specifically I anticipate could age poorly as well. I don't view his off-speed stuff as THAT good. I'm concerned he becomes a back of rotation starter if his fastball velocity drops from 96 to 93. It's certainly risky to make that level of investment in a pitcher that will be 32 when he pitches for the first time beyond our team control.

As far as what to do with Burnes/Woodruff, I think the Brewers will listen to offers but I don't know that we NEED to trade them this offseason. Next year we could go for a boom/bust type year with Mitchell and Chourio hitting the majors and hopefully sparking the offense. Frelick/Turang/Wiemer will have a year of experience at the MLB level and hopefully will be better hitting in 2024. I think we could make moves around the edges at 3b, 1b, backup catcher, relief, etc...and make another run with effectively this squad in 2024. If we start poorly, we can firesale at the deadline. Looking at what guys like Verlander and Scherzer got at the deadline this year are good comps for what Woodruff/Burnes could get next year. If those 2 go, I think Williams goes too and would fetch a quite massive haul

Well...a small distinction, the Woody deal would be kicking in next year, so he's 30.5. So you sign him now, you're signing him to the 5 year deal and you get him through 36. I feel like he's gonna be able to maintain his stuff. He's a workhorse.

He's been as steady as can be minus the shoulder this year(which would be a big reason he'd take the deal).

I take your point though I think he'll continue to be a very good starter. He's never really been worked real hard. He's thrown 180IP one year and then ~155. That cuts both ways though. Now...as for the Brewers not having to trade either, no, they don't. But are a couple of late picks really worth it? I guess it depends. You give me one of the Phillies top 3 pitching prospects plus a couple lower end, then do the same with Woodruff(but not as much back)...and that window with Chourio and company...it opens up MUCH wider. But maybe it all comes together next year like the Marlins with a 20 year old RHed savant or the Nats with a left handed stud?

It COULD be our best chance for a WS. I don't want to trade any of them(Yelich included even though I'm the one who'd like to see an unlikely trade to clear his salary). But I'm trying to think what gives us the best chance at a Royals type run(or even a Giants type run).

As for Williams, I think it depends on how we move him. By himself? I think he has less value than Hader. Not by much, but a little bit.  So that's a nice deal, but there's no guarantee of a Contreras trade coming after. Gasser is great, but we need higher ceilings IMO. So that's why I'm packaging him. It's so much easier to sell a team(in theory) on a game 1 starter and a closer. That can be 8 innings of your pitching. 

 

Either way, I'm gonna be there for it.

[brewmann04]

I think the two trade guys are Burnes and Willy 

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, brewmann04 said:

I think the two trade guys are Burnes and Willy 

What do you think Willy goes for then? Coming off the season he's having?

And what do you do with Woody? QO? Extend him if he's willing to sign for ~23-26AAV?

[SF70]

Trade Burnes, keep the rest.

The team can contend without Burnes. They will still have a rotation with Woodruff-Peralta-Ashby-Houser-FA/Gasser/Rea/CRod.

The Burnes Arby saved ($16M) can be used elsewhere to strengthen the team (Bat). A healthy Mitchell added to a more developed Frelick-Wiemer-Turang with Black-Chourio & Quero added throughout the year should improve the defense, speed, and offense.

Adding a power bat to the lineup (3B/1B) thru FA or trade should be the priority.

Maybe they can trade a couple of their top prospects for a controlled 3B, then get the prospects replaced with the Burnes trade.

Trading Burnes, getting rid of Tellez-Caratini-Winker-Taylor-Urias pays for the Arby increases of Woodruff-Adames-Williams, salary increases of Peralta-Ashby and still leaves room to add a $15-20M FA and still enter next year with a payroll similar to the OD ‘23 payroll.

[jay87shot]

10 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

What do you think Willy goes for then? Coming off the season he's having?

We probably could get a mid-level prospect or two, maybe a decent mlb reliever (not high end). I would look into trading Willy especially if we get a quality SS/2B prospect in a separate trade. Don't forget we would save a bunch of money by trading him as well.

 

14 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

As for Williams, I think it depends on how we move him. By himself? I think he has less value than Hader. Not by much, but a little bit.  So that's a nice deal, but there's no guarantee of a Contreras trade coming after. Gasser is great, but we need higher ceilings IMO. So that's why I'm packaging him. It's so much easier to sell a team(in theory) on a game 1 starter and a closer. That can be 8 innings of your pitching. 

 

I think Williams will have more value than Hader. Hader had just had a horrific month and had an ERA around 5, if I remember correctly. Paul Sewald got a similar return as Hader this year, so Williams with an extra half year and with half the ERA should have a bunch more. I don't mind packaging him but not with Burnes or Woody.