Brewers (Peralta) vs Pirates (TBD): 9/6/23, 11:35am

[BruisedCrew]

As the Cubs polish off their sweep of the Giants, the next hurdle in their supposedly more difficult schedule is the DBacks, who are threatening to lose their 8th of their last 11.

The DBacks have gone 22-35 since July 1, which is even worse than the Giants 24-34.

[wibadgers23]

49 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

It might be crazy but should the team consider giving Chourio a chance to give this offense a boost. I would be in favor only if they think he can handle the potential failure.

We’re more likely to see Tyler Black called up who isn’t exactly setting the world on fire right now but at least he’s in AAA. The Brewers for whatever reason have kept Chourio down in AA. I guess you could see him make the jump from AA but I would be absolutely shocked.

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Yankees are red hot, too.

And we have Rea & Miley to start that series 

I can't explain how much I hate the idea of the Cubs winning the NL Central

I'm so disappointed in the Brewers - what a complete meltdown against these horrid teams

[edfunderburk]

19 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

We’re more likely to see Tyler Black called up who isn’t exactly setting the world on fire right now but at least he’s in AAA. The Brewers for whatever reason have kept Chourio down in AA. I guess you could see him make the jump from AA but I would be absolutely shocked.

Donaldson is NOT the answer ... neither is Hiura

 

[Sixtolezcano]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

Craig is either planning a long vacation or checking out real estate in New York. Either way he is walking away after the season.

He should just leave now, with all the poor decisions he has been making.

[edfunderburk]

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

It's okay that we lost two of three to the Pirates though because we're still in first place.

Blue ink? Or are you serious?

[Sixtolezcano]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

It might be crazy but should the team consider giving Chourio a chance to give this offense a boost. I would be in favor only if they think he can handle the potential failure.

That would be so un-Brewer like. The last time the Brewers had the audacity to make such a courageous decision like that was in 1974 when they brought up Robin Yount.

[Sixtolezcano]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

How long is awhile? The last eight games where we went 4-4?

Before that they won nine in a row.

Their 20-12 record since August is 6th best in MLB as is their 34-23 record since July.

 

You argument is deceptive. How does the Brewer record have anything to do with how badly Yelich is hitting? In fact using your premise maybe they would have won 12 in a row with an average hitting Yelich.

[sveumrules]

1 minute ago, Sixtolezcano said:

You argument is a straw man like one. How does the Brewer record have anything to do with how Yelich is hitting so badly. In fact using your premise maybe they would have won 12 in a row if Yelich was hitting more average.

I was responding to your statement that Counsell hasn’t made a good decision in awhile.

Thats why I asked how long is awhile and then provided the teams record over the last couple months where they’ve been among the half dozen best teams in MLB.

[Sixtolezcano]

7 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

I was responding to your statement that Counsell hasn’t made a good decision in awhile.

Thats why I asked how long is awhile and then provided the teams record over the last couple months where they’ve been among the half dozen best teams in MLB.

You must admit that there has been several head-scratching decisions Counsell has made over the past 3 series, especially associated with his bullpen usage.

Actually, this comment was associated with benching Yelich (see page 8).

 

[Nola Beery]

1 hour ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

Except I think a lot of those walks we've drawn have been earned. That's almost always part of the mix when you have a big inning. As for the errors.......when we had the three-run error vs Philly, yeah, that was a huge gift. But it was preceded by a couple line drive hits, Santana drawing a walk, then Taylor showing discipline like I've never seen from him to draw a bases-loaded walk.  If not for those ABs the error never occurs because you never get that far into the inning. Point is, this team put up a lot of great ABs to take advantage of & create situations. What happened in the two losses in Pitt was what Counsell usually talks about, not getting the "next hit".

OK, not getting the "next hit" is a fair assessment. But whatever you call it, it all adds up to 💩💩💩.

How can these bums be in 1st place? One way or another, I don't think we'll be asking that question much longer. Either they'll show us why, or they won't be in 1st place. 

[Sugarrayray]

1 hour ago, tmwiese55 said:

As I said, it's impossible to get all bullpen things right, literally impossible.   At what point do the results he's getting with a fairly cheap/trash roster not show you that what he's been doing is not 'terrible.'  Doesn't a 10 game winning streak prove it, instead you said 'na he's still an idiot'.   Add in too that Woody was out most of the year and Peralta/Burnes have been mediocre (things he really has no control on) and somehow they still have this result pretty much proves it in my opinion.   He's had a patchwork rotation most of the year, all new name BP besides Williams, garbage O roster.   Yet they are where they are.   Doesn't seem like he's 'terrible' to me

Huh. I said he’s an idiot? Hmm, don’t remember doing that. In fact, I do remember saying I’m pleased with him as a coach more often than not and think his greatness is one reason his follies get overlooked. But as today, several of his decisions led directly to a loss. He was found coasting again on the last game of the Phillies series. Course that’s on the players but it’s on him too. By no means am I saying he’s a poor coach, definitely not an idiot! I am stating that although he has many and unique talents as a coach, there are some basic things he has overlooked for years that could be remedied if he wasn’t so stubborn. Every coach has pluses and weaknesses. He has far more pluses. His weaknesses however are very predictable and not learned from or adjusted. I am wishing that those things could be fixed. Wishes are for fools and children. But it’s still fine to state that a much loved and respected home town coach could improve on things that would help the team. His minuses as a manager we’re on stark display today.

[Sixtolezcano]

5 minutes ago, Sugarrayray said:

Huh. I said he’s an idiot? Hmm, don’t remember doing that. In fact, I do remember saying I’m pleased with him as a coach more often than not and think his greatness is one reason his follies get overlooked. But as today, several of his decisions led directly to a loss. He was found coasting again on the last game of the Phillies series. Course that’s on the players but it’s on him too. By no means am I saying he’s a poor coach, definitely not an idiot! I am stating that although he has many and unique talents as a coach, there are some basic things he has overlooked for years that could be remedied if he wasn’t so stubborn. Every coach has pluses and weaknesses. He has far more pluses. His weaknesses however are very predictable and not learned from or adjusted. I am wishing that those things could be fixed. Wishes are for fools and children. But it’s still fine to state that a much loved and respected home town coach could improve on things that would help the team. His minuses as a manager we’re on stark display today.

Your problem is that you can’t bring up any foibles Counsell or any Brewer players have, otherwise you are against the Brewers or even worse a Cubs fan. 

[tmwiese55]

22 minutes ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Your problem is that you can’t bring up any foibles Counsell or any Brewer players have, otherwise you are against the Brewers or even worse a Cubs fan. 

Yea I'm far from that.  I literally was on the other side of this just a few days ago on here.

Well it seems some change of tone.  Sorry if I took a leap by saying that if a guy is consistently making 'terrible' moves/decisions, miffed by them, chronically bad decisions, coasting, mailling it in, no heartbeat, that he's an idiot.  I don't see that as a stretch but ok.

But no this whole "coasting" thing is just nuts. If he picks the wrong reliever on a given day he's coasting?  I mean this is getting into "the team that wants it more will win" type stuff which is just bs.  IT's baseball, it is impossible to pick the right reliver every day.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  Clearly CC is getting these way more correct than not and has been doing it a way better clip than the league for several years.  So hindsight 20/20 on stuff after it doesn't work while biting your tongue all the times it does is just not right.     Rowdy failed today, a few days ago he PH and roped one of the RF field fence. Its a numbers game, 1/4 of the time he's gonna get a hit of some kind, another chunk a SF, another chunk a DP. All the manager can do is play him.   If he leaves Turang in who Ks, then next guy gets out then someone could say "he's coasting, had an obvious PH in Tellez who's been hot" and he didn't use him.   Or if Tellez did get the hit today was he then not coasting.

There's plenty to bash the Brewers about and its not like CC isn't going to make mistakes, as I said its impossible not to. But to lump to him being terrible and or quitting, lazy, checked out, coasting, etc is just a poor ESPN style hot take

[Pugger]

3 hours ago, willie key said:

looks like we are getting to the inevitable stage of the cubs overtaking us.     They are just better than us.    But we still have a pretty substantial lead in the wild card.     So we should be ok

 

but who knows with this team

But even if we make the playoffs as a WC team or division champ we aren't gonna go much anyway.  It's all very depressing.

[Pugger]

3 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Yankees are red hot, too.

So are the Marlins.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Nola Beery said:

OK, not getting the "next hit" is a fair assessment. But whatever you call it, it all adds up to 💩💩💩.

How can these bums be in 1st place? One way or another, I don't think we'll be asking that question much longer. Either they'll show us why, or they won't be in 1st place. 

I guess the short answer is, because they aren't "bums". If they were they wouldn't be 15 games over .500 or whatever they are. The AB quality, from the neck up, was considerably better in the last month or so. Now, for whatever reason, it's gone south again. The way Santana went about his last AB today, you wouldn't tolerate that decision from a rookie. And Yelichs' last AB was laughingly bad. Both came in potentially game-changing instances. It's consistency. CC brings it up. They need to do what they're fully capable of doing, just on a more consistent basis. This division, they're more than capable of winning. The alternative, yeah, that's possible too.

And I really don't care that they're going into New York, or how well the Yankees are playing. I've always felt with this team, it's how they're performing, not who they're playing. After the last month I believe it even more now.

[Sugarrayray]

1 hour ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Your problem is that you can’t bring up any foibles Counsell or any Brewer players have, otherwise you are against the Brewers or even worse a Cubs fan. 

Seriously? I point out frustration with a manager and I might be a CUBS fan!?! Wow. I pointed out his foibles earlier in the chat. Multiple just today. Not providing significant proofs when one has limited time to type means someone might be a fan of a rival team??? Hmmm maybe this wasn’t the right place to post. 

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Sixtolezcano said:

That would be so un-Brewer like. The last time the Brewers had the audacity to make such a courageous decision like that was in 1974 when they brought up Robin Yount.

That would be un Brewer-like. But if you're talking about teams bringing up a 19-yr-old in a pennant race I think that's pretty much un-everyone else-like, too.

I'm sure you know, Yount wasn't brought up but made the team out of spring training. It was a somewhat courageous move even though that team wasn't ready to compete. But there's a big difference between throwing a 19-yr-old in a pennant race and someone proving over 4 weeks in Arizona that he's better than Tim Johnson.

[Sugarrayray]

1 hour ago, tmwiese55 said:

Yea I'm far from that.  I literally was on the other side of this just a few days ago on here.

Well it seems some change of tone.  Sorry if I took a leap by saying that if a guy is consistently making 'terrible' moves/decisions, miffed by them, chronically bad decisions, coasting, mailling it in, no heartbeat, that he's an idiot.  I don't see that as a stretch but ok.

But no this whole "coasting" thing is just nuts. If he picks the wrong reliever on a given day he's coasting?  I mean this is getting into "the team that wants it more will win" type stuff which is just bs.  IT's baseball, it is impossible to pick the right reliver every day.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.  Clearly CC is getting these way more correct than not and has been doing it a way better clip than the league for several years.  So hindsight 20/20 on stuff after it doesn't work while biting your tongue all the times it does is just not right.     Rowdy failed today, a few days ago he PH and roped one of the RF field fence. Its a numbers game, 1/4 of the time he's gonna get a hit of some kind, another chunk a SF, another chunk a DP. All the manager can do is play him.   If he leaves Turang in who Ks, then next guy gets out then someone could say "he's coasting, had an obvious PH in Tellez who's been hot" and he didn't use him.   Or if Tellez did get the hit today was he then not coasting.

There's plenty to bash the Brewers about and its not like CC isn't going to make mistakes, as I said its impossible not to. But to lump to him being terrible and or quitting, lazy, checked out, coasting, etc is just a poor ESPN style hot take

Let’s put it this way. If many brewers fans knew putting Elvis in today was a terrible idea since he really struggles own no rest, why didn’t Craig? If Rowdy is the slowest guy in the league and the sure thing you can not do in that situation is hit in to a double play, why put him in for a fast guy? If Rowdy was having a solid year, it may be worth the risk. It wasn’t. That’s Craig’s job to know. If Craig can’t see putting rookie in the 4th spot of a slumping lineup isn’t a great play, that’s tough. He’s still on balance a top five manager in the league in my eyes. But these are SIMPLE things.

[yourout]

While not a catastrophic loss it's s pretty bad one.

It with not take many more series like that one to sink the ship.

[SF70]

3 hours ago, BruisedCrew said:

As the Cubs polish off their sweep of the Giants, the next hurdle in their supposedly more difficult schedule is the DBacks, who are threatening to lose their 8th of their last 11.

The DBacks have gone 22-35 since July 1, which is even worse than the Giants 24-34.

The DBacks beat Colorado today 12-5.

[HarveysWBs]

52 minutes ago, Sugarrayray said:

Let’s put it this way. If many brewers fans knew putting Elvis in today was a terrible idea since he really struggles own no rest, why didn’t Craig? If Rowdy is the slowest guy in the league and the sure thing you can not do in that situation is hit in to a double play, why put him in for a fast guy? If Rowdy was having a solid year, it may be worth the risk. It wasn’t. That’s Craig’s job to know. If Craig can’t see putting rookie in the 4th spot of a slumping lineup isn’t a great play, that’s tough. He’s still on balance a top five manager in the league in my eyes. But these are SIMPLE things.

Google Dunning-Kruger effect.  Then check the mirror.

If you think this thing is simple, that should be a big red flag.  

[BruisedCrew]

4 minutes ago, SF70 said:

The DBacks beat Colorado today 12-5.

They were in danger when I posted that after Zach Davies gave up 5 runs in 3 innings to put them behind 5-1. 

So now the DBacks are 23-35 since July 1. 

[SF70]

I love Counsell and very rarely complain about any moves or non-moves he makes during or after Brewers games — but:

Taking Megill out of the game after 17 pitches thrown in the 6th after he’s had 3 days of rest after throwing 31 pitches on Saturday was surprising to me, especially since he had been using him in fireman-type roles pitching 2 inning stints.

Megill did give-up the game-tying hit, but K’d the other 2 batters faced and has just been outstanding lately, totally overwhelming hitters to the tune of 18K’s in the last 9 innings pitched, now up to 20K in 9.2IP. 

Megill for the 7th likely gets the team to the 8th all tied-up. Peguero has also been not good on back to backs and that was the situation when CC pitched him today. Just a head-scratcher for me.