Power Bats

[wibadgers23]

I think it’s fairly clear this lineup needs more pop. Who can we target in the offseason? Revisit the Pete Alonso/Eloy Jimenez trades? Any free agents that we could actually afford? Wonder how much Hoskins will get? 

[brewers888]

We won't spend what it would take to get a legitimate middle of the order bat. The best they will do is bringing back Santana or foolishly exercising the option on Canha who should be gone.

[OnaBadger58]

Not sure what Brandon Drury's next contract would look like, but he seems to fit some Brewers needs.

[nate82]

1 hour ago, brewers888 said:

We won't spend what it would take to get a legitimate middle of the order bat. The best they will do is bringing back Santana or foolishly exercising the option on Canha who should be gone.

Other than Ohtani there isn't a legitimate middle of the order bat in FA and there really hasn't been one in the last few years in FA other than Freeman and he wasn't coming to Milwaukee regardless of what the Brewers would have offered it was LA or Atlanta.  Of all the FA bat pick ups the Canha and Santana types have been the more valuable pick ups in FA.  There have been more busts in FA than there have been success. 

If the Brewers are to improve it is better to trade than it is to go through FA.  Other than Olson there hasn't been much if any movement of middle of the order bats. 

2 hours ago, wibadgers23 said:

Wonder how much Hoskins will get? 

Probably around what Conforto received last off season. 

I think the Brewers stay away from FA and will keep Canha who I think would be fine as a platoon bat at 1B and DH.  Canha is a far better option than anyone else in FA not named Ohtani. 

[brewers888]

If it comes down to Santana or Canha I would choose Santana without a doubt as at least he has some power in a lineup begging for it.

[nate82]

To be more precise here are the UFA for 2024 which middle of the order bat should the Brewers sign who is not named Ohtani.  I can only really see one and that is J.D. Martinez and I am not sure he will leave LA.  After that you have Hoskins, Gallo, and Chapman.  Not really an exciting list after Ohtani and I don't think any of those players would be better than Canha.

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, nate82 said:

Probably around what Conforto received last off season. 

I think the Brewers stay away from FA and will keep Canha who I think would be fine as a platoon bat at 1B and DH.  Canha is a far better option than anyone else in FA not named Ohtani. 

You have to pretty much take OFers off the table with Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Yelich, Chourio and then the fringe players like Taylor and Perkins. It'd be kinda silly to spend there. 

Matt Chapman is a good player. That's pretty much the only big difference maker in this class other than Ohtani and I'd guess the bidding for him will get a little silly. 

 

The Brewers are building for their farm system. That's...just what they're going to do. The people upset about their 140M payroll are yelling at the Moon. They don't have the financial resources to compete for top FAs. We're just starting to see the benefits of a LA scouting dept, hopefully that continues. That's how they improve offensively. 

 

Quote

 I can only really see one and that is J.D. Martinez and I am not sure he will leave LA.  After that you have Hoskins, Gallo, and Chapman.  Not really an exciting list after Ohtani and I don't think any of those players would be better than Canha.

I'd be all for Chapman if his 'market value' was ~17M. But I suspect it'll be closer to 25 and 7 years? Maybe 8.

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

If Longoria doesn't make a leaping stab of Taylors' screamer in game one, and a few other ABs go differently---I'm talking a single at the right time, or even a deep enough fly ball or ground ball where the throw has to go to first base--they easily could've scored twice as many runs as they did the last two days. That's without "pop" or "power bats". Burnes, Williams, and (in the sixth inning) Peralta were much bigger reasons why they failed this week.

I have no problem with having HR power.  I just think people need to be realistic about how they do things, and why.

If I had to guess I'd say Canha has a better chance of returning than Santana, but at the end of the day it'll be neither.

[Jim French Stepstool]

33 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

We're just starting to see the benefits of a LA scouting dept, hopefully that continues. That's how they improve offensively.

 

Absolutely. People always focus on how much more money LA has to spend. They do indeed have much, much more. But the scouting, drafting, player development is the foundation their whole house is built on. It's smart to emulate it. For us it's necessary.

[nate82]

1 minute ago, BrewerFan said:

You have to pretty much take OFers off the table with Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Yelich, Chourio and then the fringe players like Taylor and Perkins. It'd be kinda silly to spend there. 

I think at least one of Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer or Taylor gets traded this off season maybe two depending on if the Brewers see Chourio as a viable option to start the year with the Brewers and not in AAA.  I think Mitchell and Wiemer are probably safe one because of injury and the other because of their offensive ineffectiveness.  If someone gets traded I think it will be Frelick or Taylor.  Perkins will still be cheap so I think the Brewers hang onto him as he just doesn't have enough value to trade.  He provides more value as the 5th OF or someone they move back and forth from AAA.

[Jim French Stepstool]

53 minutes ago, nate82 said:

To be more precise here are the UFA for 2024 which middle of the order bat should the Brewers sign who is not named Ohtani.  I can only really see one and that is J.D. Martinez and I am not sure he will leave LA.  After that you have Hoskins, Gallo, and Chapman.  Not really an exciting list after Ohtani and I don't think any of those players would be better than Canha.

If the money works & if healthy I wouldn't mind Hoskins. He Ks a lot which is something they're trying to get away from, but also takes his walks. I just don't think they'd want him for more than 2 years at the very most, so the discussion would probably begin & end there.

[Austin Tatious]

Rhys Hoskins is perfect for what the Brewers need.  His results are highly predictable.  He’s going to hit .240 and pop around 30 HR and 85-90 rbi.  For a team whose big power guy hit only 24 HR with only 80 ribbies while sitting at a pathetic .217, they need a run producing bat at a corner infield spot.  

[brewmann04]

I am moving Burnes this off-season without question 

[sveumrules]

Hoskins is about as consistent as it gets. 127 wRC+ in 2021, 122 wRC+ in 2022, 126 wRC+ for his career.

Brandon Belt was heavily platooned with 365 of his 404 PA coming vs RHP, but he posted a 138 wRC+ on the season. He was also primarily a DH (only 28 starts at 1B) and will be going into his age 36 season. Was paid $9.3M last year, so will probably want a raise on another one year deal.

Scanning the wRC+ leaderboard for 2023 (minimum 250 PA) I see a Matt Wallner on the Twins with a 144 wRC+. What's the scoop on him @Brock Beauchamp? Looks like he has raked throughout his minor league career, but will never provide any defensive value and is likely a platoon only bat.

Who knows what Colorado is ever doing, could try to pry Nolan Jones (135 wRC+ in 424 PA) loose. 

Rays love to deal and could probably stand to move one of Harold Ramirez (128 wRC+ in 434 PA), Luke Raley (130 wRC+ in 406 PA) or Josh Lowe (131 wRC+ in 501 PA). Ramirez and Raley don't really have any defensive value, but Lowe put up decent defensive numbers in RF this year.

Luis Robert (128 wRC+ in 595 PA) could be the biggest name on the trade market, while Eloy ended up with only a 105 wRC+ over 489 PA so not sure he qualifies as a power bat at this point.

If the Yankees want to shake it up maybe Gleyber Torres (123 wRC+ over 672 PA) could be had via trade?

As far as the get a power prospect for Burnes route guys like Curtis Mead (TBR) or Coby Mayo (BAL) are probably a little too ambitious of asks. Maybe somebody like Colt Keith (DET) or Brady House (WAS) could be in play if the Tigers/Nationals want to try to kickstart the rebuild? Dodgers would probably part with Andy Pages, but he wouldn't be ready from the jump (if at all) in 2024. 

[BrewerFan]

10 hours ago, nate82 said:

I think at least one of Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer or Taylor gets traded this off season maybe two depending on if the Brewers see Chourio as a viable option to start the year with the Brewers and not in AAA.  I think Mitchell and Wiemer are probably safe one because of injury and the other because of their offensive ineffectiveness.  If someone gets traded I think it will be Frelick or Taylor.  Perkins will still be cheap so I think the Brewers hang onto him as he just doesn't have enough value to trade.  He provides more value as the 5th OF or someone they move back and forth from AAA.

I think Frelick is the least likely to get traded. I wouldn't trade Wiemer either. Maybe Mitchell if teams have a positive view of him, but lets say they trade Frelick and Taylor...for arguments sake. Aside from really pissing off Brewers fans by trading away one of those young hit over power bats the Brewers have been trying to develop and then trading him after 57 games where he provided energy, pretty good on base skills and magnificent defense in the OF. 

But hypothetically, lets say they trade him, Perkins and Taylor. I still think it's unlikely they invest in the OF market. 

I think it's unlikely they invest anywhere. They'll either run it back and have too much payroll or they'll move on and it'd be silly to bid for FAs in this market if you are losing Burnes and Adames. 

 

So I'd expect a transition year. Ideally it'd be with Counsell, but it could be a short transition depending on the trades they make and the young prospects. But I think it's pretty unlikely to expect to get a power bat...anywhere but from within the farm system. Which is good as we've got several potential options who are still very young. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Scanning the wRC+ leaderboard for 2023 (minimum 250 PA) I see a Matt Wallner on the Twins with a 144 wRC+. What's the scoop on him @Brock Beauchamp? Looks like he has raked throughout his minor league career, but will never provide any defensive value and is likely a platoon only bat.

He's relatively legit. I don't know if he's 144 wRC+ legit but there's a good chance he sticks as an above average corner bat. His defense, I'm not so sure about. His range is lacking but he has a 99th percentile arm and that's not an exaggeration. Joey Gallo said Wallner has the strongest arm he's ever seen. Joey Gallo. He's the classic power lefty guy: big power, questionable hit tool, Ks a bunch, good discipline, kinda bad or bad defense at a corner spot.

So overall, Wallner is an intriguing player that I think is overperforming a bit. But maybe this is just who he is; considering how many times the Twins have had a power lefty bat come up and underperform, maybe it's time for them to have one come up and overperform.

[jay87shot]

I don't mind Hoskins but his injury makes a deal a bit tough, if it was 1/15 with some team options I could be on board but my guess is he will get like 3/45-50 guarenteed with player opt outs. JD Martinez would be ideal but my guess is the Dodgers will pay up to keep him 1 more year. My favorite under the radar option would be Mitch Garver, he could backup Contreras at C, play 1st occasionally, be a great DH. He had 19 HR's in under 300 ab's so the power is real, injuries are always a concern for him. My guess is he wouldn't cost over $10. 

Eloy Jimenez would be an obvious trade candidate and it seems like Alonso is off the market but maybe the Mets going from Eppler to Stearns changes that. There are probably a couple older players like Jose Abreu, Conforto, Haniger, etc that could be had but I can't see that working.

If I were in charge I would just look for a power infield bat coming back in a trade for Burnes or a reliever and then next year having Wilken, Chourio, and maybe Weimer/Mitchell if they can make contact on top of a IF with power in a Burnes deal. 

[jay87shot]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

He's relatively legit. I don't know if he's 144 wRC+ legit but there's a good chance he sticks as an above average corner bat. His defense, I'm not so sure about. His range is lacking but he has a 99th percentile arm and that's not an exaggeration. Joey Gallo said Wallner has the strongest arm he's ever seen. Joey Gallo. He's the classic power lefty guy: big power, questionable hit tool, Ks a bunch, good discipline, kinda bad or bad defense at a corner spot.

So overall, Wallner is an intriguing player that I think is overperforming a bit. But maybe this is just who he is; considering how many times the Twins have had a power lefty bat come up and underperform, maybe it's time for them to have one come up and overperform.

I like the idea of Wallner, if he could play some 1st he would be great. My guess is that the Twins would hold on to him, but I could see a trade based with a reilever like Joel Payamps working out. The problem is that he would like just be a DH for us with the OF depth we have. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

10 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

I like the idea of Wallner, if he could play some 1st he would be great. My guess is that the Twins would hold on to him, but I could see a trade based with a reilever like Joel Payamps working out. The problem is that he would like just be a DH for us with the OF depth we have. 

Honestly, if I was trying to make a trade with the Twins for a power bat, I'd try to get Trevor Larnach on the cheap. He just hasn't had a healthy run with the team and keeps being squeezed out of the roster. His price should be quite low and his upside is still quite high.

[jay87shot]

I like Larnach, however looking the Twins, they are loaded in the IF Correa, Lewis, Kiriloff, Julien, Polanco, Miranda, Brooks Lee (AAA) and have questions in the OF Buxton (doesn't play much OF anymore), Wallner, Larnach, Castro (UTL), Gordon. I think that one of our OF for a IF would be win win.

Tyrone Taylor for Polanco 

Weimer/Mitchell for Miranda and a prospect

Frelick for Julien (don't like a ton)

Quero for Brooks Lee

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

48 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

I like Larnach, however looking the Twins, they are loaded in the IF Correa, Lewis, Kiriloff, Julien, Polanco, Miranda, Brooks Lee (AAA) and have questions in the OF Buxton (doesn't play much OF anymore), Wallner, Larnach, Castro (UTL), Gordon. I think that one of our OF for a IF would be win win.

Tyrone Taylor for Polanco 

Weimer/Mitchell for Miranda and a prospect

Frelick for Julien (don't like a ton)

Quero for Brooks Lee

Awhile back, I proposed a Wiemer for Miranda (and probably plus) deal. I think it makes sense for both teams.

Strong disagree on Julien, I think he's borderline untouchable from the Twins perspective. His defense is shaky at second but good lord, that bat and discipline. His discipline is elite with his absolute refusal to swing at balls out of the zone but also has pretty good power.

As for Polanco, I think there's a pretty good chance the Twins are looking to deal him and if the price is right, I'd definitely want Polo on the Brewers. He gets injured too often, is getting older, but takes professional PAs and is a really nice stabilizing force in a lineup.

[LouisEly]

21 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

You have to pretty much take OFers off the table with Frelick, Mitchell, Wiemer, Yelich, Chourio and then the fringe players like Taylor and Perkins. It'd be kinda silly to spend there. 

And how much should they invest in 1B/3B with Black and Wilken knocking on the door?  Those two have as much upside as anyone who they can realistically trade for. 

Maybe there's a team who needs a true CF and will swap Mitchell or Frelick for a RF with a bigger bat.  Maybe there's a team who needs a true SS and will swap Turang for a 2B with a bigger bat.  Those are the best opportunities that I see for offensive improvement.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I really don't want this offseason to be focused on anything besides sorting out their longterm rotation options and accumulating potential impact talent with trades of Burnes, Adames, and even Devin Williams.  Use 2024 as a legit retooling/rebuild season and open up as many MLB opportunities for their young players to sort things out in the OF and at corner IF positions.  If Black can even be a hack defensively at 3rd, he should be their Opening Day 3B.  If Black fails there defensively and winds up as a DH candidate, there are other 3B prospects recently drafted who may be fast risers through the system, too.  Wilken should be viewed as a legit 1B option with his power, probably not ready right away next season but who knows?  If none of the young OFs are dealt as part of any trades, Wiemer should start 2024 in AAA with Mitchell and Frelick the other OF starters opposite Yelich - then if Chourio hits the ground running in AAA he's up and Yelich becomes your fulltime DH for the rest of his contract.  I think a healthy Mitchell over the course of a full MLB season will give you 25HR.

Once (if) Wiemer figures things out at the plate he's your 4th OF with pop and premium OF defense.  Plug Turang in at SS and let him mature at that spot on the cheap for a few seasons until sorting out if one of the other Brewers' SS working through the minors pushes him out of the organization or if that's a position to target via trade when the team is once again ready to contend.

Yes, the Brewers need more pop in their lineup - but they've got to give homegrown youngsters MLB time to develop and see if they can find that with who they've already got in house.  For a bridge, I like the idea of trying to keep Santana around, assuming (and hoping) guys like Canha and Tellez are gone.  Also, find a 2B with at least a little pop in free agency/trade (Jorge Polanco from the Twins on a 2-3 yr deal sounds pretty good and likely pretty affordable).

Specific to Devin W., they could get a haul for him with a trade this offseason but the Brewers may want to go into 2024 with him as their established closer - and if they aren't anywhere near contention they'd be able to get a haul for him at the July deadline, too.

[Fear The Chorizo]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Awhile back, I proposed a Wiemer for Miranda (and probably plus) deal. I think it makes sense for both teams.

Strong disagree on Julien, I think he's borderline untouchable from the Twins perspective. His defense is shaky at second but good lord, that bat and discipline. His discipline is elite with his absolute refusal to swing at balls out of the zone but also has pretty good power.

As for Polanco, I think there's a pretty good chance the Twins are looking to deal him and if the price is right, I'd definitely want Polo on the Brewers. He gets injured too often, is getting older, but takes professional PAs and is a really nice stabilizing force in a lineup.

Regarding Polanco, isn't he a FA this offseason?  NM...club options I see, but yeah those options may be pricey enough for the Twins to either try dealing him or just decline his option.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Regarding Polanco, isn't he a FA this offseason?  NM...club options I see, but yeah those options may be pricey enough for the Twins to either try dealing him or just decline his option.

I don't think they'll decline it but he's pricey enough that the cost for him shouldn't be high.