Counsell to Cubs

[homer]

13 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

I still think this is more than just taking the highest bid and that he just wanted out. Going to a rival really says that he wants to stick it to this owner and possibly Arnold as well.

I think it's simply because the rival is 90 miles from home. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

2 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Oh, I have no doubt in my mind he wanted out of Milwaukee.  All signs are pointing to that, he probably can't believe he gets to leave PLUS getting that kind of money.  It was a win-win for him I guess.

Not sure his goal was to stick it to anyone, but then again, that could easily be part of the equation as well.

Counsell isn't an idiot. He's gotta know that while moving on is bad enough, moving on in THIS way absolutely tarnishes the legacy he has help make here. This isn't just leaving, it's going scorched earth. There is absolutely more to this story that hasn't been reported. 

[tmwiese55]

3 hours ago, Bulldogboy said:

Agree with this. Counsell definitely underachieved given the pitching alone. He is better than most not as good as some. Now if he can get 8 mil to do what he does great. This is the same team that went to arby with a Cy young winner for 100k. Mark is a cheap guy and Counsell got tired of it. No hard feelings from me.

Are you familiar with what Cubs management did with a ROY and MVP winner over a small amount of money?  And they're one of the richest teams in the league.

Market rate talk also make no sense.  By one's definition of market rate it is impossible to have someone who overpays, which of course is incorrect.  If I have a 1998 Dodge Neon with 225K miles and I talk someone into paying me 15K for it that does not make that the market rate. That person overpaid. 

[Pugger]

15 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Believe me, I'm not saying harass him in public, though I'm sure some stupid people will. 

But in one day he's lost all the goodwill he's built in the city and the state. I wonder if he underestimated the backlash he would receive. 

Seeing how the end played out I don't believe CC really cared about any goodwill in the city or state.

[homer]

5 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Counsell isn't an idiot. He's gotta know that while moving on is bad enough, moving on in THIS way absolutely tarnishes the legacy he has help make here. This isn't just leaving, it's going scorched earth. There is absolutely more to this story that hasn't been reported. 

He seems like kind of a quiet dude. It's very possible he was seething internally about this, that, or the other thing and never said a word to the GM or more likely the owner. 

[DR28]

Pat Murphy is really gonna be the choice, isn't he?

I would love to see Will Venables, but he isn't leaving Texas as he'll most likely be the next manager there.

[brewers888]

20 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Oh, I have no doubt in my mind he wanted out of Milwaukee.  All signs are pointing to that, he probably can't believe he gets to leave PLUS getting that kind of money.  It was a win-win for him I guess.

Not sure his goal was to stick it to anyone, but then again, that could easily be part of the equation as well.

Why would you want to leave your hometown team which you have said numerous times how much it means to you if there isn't any animosity with ownership and possibly the head of baseball operations. I get that he values money and thats fine but it seems like he wanted this job specifically which goes against his lie that the Brewers franchise meant something to him.

[brewers888]

49 minutes ago, TURBO said:

Ask our resident Cubs fan, Matthew Trueblood....

Not that it matters but why do we have a cubs fan contributing articles to a Brewers fan site.

[Pugger]

35 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

I still think this is more than just taking the highest bid and that he just wanted out. Going to a rival really says that he wants to stick it to this owner and possibly Arnold as well.

If this is true it sure makes CC look petty.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

10 minutes ago, DR28 said:

Pat Murphy is really gonna be the choice, isn't he?

I would love to see Will Venables, but he isn't leaving Texas as he'll most likely be the next manager there.

Murphy is the safe choice. He's as close to the status quo as they are going to get. And if they truly see themselves as a contender in 2024, and intend on hanging on to all their major pieces, he'd make sense as the odds-on favorite for the job. He is well liked in the clubhouse and respected in the organization. He does bring a little more of an old-school mentality and fiery disposition than Counsell. It would add a cool little caveat to the I-94 rivalry, as it would be a mentor vs. mentee matchup, and also pit Murphy against the guy who has essentially been his boss for years. 

[Pugger]

30 minutes ago, Outlander said:

Which means nothing since it is voted before the playoffs.

Of course.  But it was time to move on.  Some of his managerial decisions over the years had left me scratching my head a lot.

[Samurai Bucky]

2 hours ago, homer said:

Don't do this

 

 

Valdalizing the sign is utter, bush league, horse****.

Be better, Milwaukee.

[Pugger]

2 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Murphy is the safe choice. He's as close to the status quo as they are going to get. And if they truly see themselves as a contender in 2024, and intend on hanging on to all their major pieces, he'd make sense as the odds-on favorite for the job. He is well liked in the clubhouse and respected in the organization. He does bring a little more of an old-school mentality and fiery disposition than Counsell. It would add a cool little caveat to the I-94 rivalry, as it would be a mentor vs. mentee matchup, and also pit Murphy against the guy who has essentially been his boss for years. 

I really want MA to get someone from outside the organization.  New blood and a fresh approach would do wonders for this team.

[craigharmann]

Man. That was a total surprise out of left field. I would have figured, as most, it was either go to the Mets or stay in Milwaukee. But the Cubs? Wow. It sucks. Congrats Craig for getting paid. Can't argue with that. But the Cubs? Really? It would be like Rodgers decided he didn't want to play for the Pack anymore, and instead of wanting a trade to the Jets, he wanted a trade to the Bears. For Counsell, it makes sense. The Cubs have a lot of talent, an owner willing to spend, and seem to be on the up and up. But it's a gut punch, no doubt. 

[brewmann04]

The Crew IMO were right to not to pay 8 Million

[Thurston Fluff]

He had the right to go where ever he wanted and did so. I wouldn't have lost any respect for him if all he did was take a job for better pay and more resources.

The thing that bothers me about him is the image he sold turned out to be pure bull. He marketed himself of the hometown boy then pulled the most non-hometown boy move possible. Worse still, he seemed to be playing the "I'm doing this to get better pay for all managers" card then back stabbed a fellow manager. It's not cool to talk to an organization behind the back of the person you're negotiating to take the job from. If the Cubs came to him and asked what it would take, a person working for the profession as a whole would have said "ask me when there's a job opening." That he did this as a tide raises all boats ideal only to sink a boat in the process is telling. That's where I lost respect for him.

Good luck working for a owner willing to do what he did to his own manager as soon as a new shiny object came along. Good luck sitting in your cramped office in the bowels of the Earth and suffering through cold rainy Aprils. Good luck trying to win in an organization that's never been known to be run especially well. They have the money to spend but it seems to be their only asset.

Meanwhile I'm interested to see who the new manager will be. Also interesting to see how many of our current staff will follow him the Chicago. I suspect none under contract will be allowed to.

Final thought. Matt Erickson is my out of nowhere pick to be our next manager. Hometown boy with the organization since 2008 and worked his way up. If anyone knows how our team operates it's him.

[tmwiese55]

Its been said how along with this Cubs are going to be so active in FA this year to jumpstart and move them past middling team.  Well I just ran through the FA list and let's just say I'm unimpressed and I actually hope they do try to blow their load on this class.  After Ohtani (and even he is less since he can't pitch this year) there's a whole lot 'sure they're good/fine but no way I want to give them a huge 6-7 year deal' types. Several of which are inconsistent players already, and that's before they get paid and start aging. 

Oddly for Brewers fan one of the safest bets out there is Hader, and obviously there is a connection there.  Sure he'll be overpaid but I mean safe in that you know what you're getting and he's almost for sure gonna be good. 

I'd also expect them to go hard for the Japanese pitcher.    After him, the MLB FA starters of course are no guarantees and not guys I'd want to be handing big deals to.  OF course they'd help the team especially from just good depth but to use this boards favorite term they're not 'needle movers'. 

[wiguy94]

26 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

Are you familiar with what Cubs management did with a ROY and MVP winner over a small amount of money?  And they're one of the richest teams in the league.

Market rate talk also make no sense.  By one's definition of market rate it is impossible to have someone who overpays, which of course is incorrect.  If I have a 1998 Dodge Neon with 225K miles and I talk someone into paying me 15K for it that does not make that the market rate. That person overpaid. 

Relative to revenue the Cubs are definitely cheaper than the Brewers. Top 5 revenue team in the sport and they rarely if ever are in the top 5 payrolls.

[MrTPlush]

Does he really care about his legacy? Guessing most on this board would tarnish their entire lives in exchange for $13mil.  Counsell will probably be like most rich people. Once he retires and his kids are all long gone he will buy a house in Malibu as we all slave away till 70 in Wisconsin. 

Once you are that rich, you don't usually care much what other people think of you. You don't need to...you can have whatever you want. Heck, most rich people have no problem throwing their families under a bus and living life. 

The hometown love story is over, just another guy chasing money and a different opportunity to feed his ego. We like to think these guys are different, but 9/10 times it ends up they are like any other rich dude. Braun was like the poster boy of hometown guy and it came out to be he was kinda a crap person that probably took a bunch of team friendly deals to insure himself in case he got caught someday. Does Woodruff really want to be here that bad or is he just praying he can sucker us into a multi-year deal because the next two years are rehabbing/getting back from an injury?

I think people are also comparing their hometown love for the Brewers to Counsell's love and I don't think those things are anywhere remotely close to each other. He left Milwaukee at 18 years old and proceeded to play baseball for 4 different MLB teams while winning a World Series with two of them. He didn't return to Milwaukee for good until he was 36 years old. Half his life was elsewhere. He even came back for a single year and then left again at one point. Me and you...our entire personality is the Brewers. It has never been anywhere close to that for Counsell.

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

a mentor vs. mentee matchup

Would have some Obi-Wan vs Anakin vibes going on for sure.

[MrTPlush]

5 minutes ago, Samurai Bucky said:

Valdalizing the sign is utter, bush league, horse****.

Be better, Milwaukee.

It was probably a couple 14 year olds that don't even watch baseball that did it...just to be cool and get it on the news.

[Slippery_Pete]

2 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

As a man named Craig, this hits home.

I get it.  As a man named Kirk, I would say 90% of the time when I meet someone new and tell them my name, they will say in response "Kurt"?  Umm no.  No matter how much I enunciate my name with deliberate, heavy emphasis on the "k" at the end, they get it wrong. 

[Jastro]

1 minute ago, sveumrules said:

Would have some Obi-Wan vs Anakin vibes going on for sure.

[brewers888]

3 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

Its been said how along with this Cubs are going to be so active in FA this year to jumpstart and move them past middling team.  Well I just ran through the FA list and let's just say I'm unimpressed and I actually hope they do try to blow their load on this class.  After Ohtani (and even he is less since he can't pitch this year) there's a whole lot 'sure they're good/fine but no way I want to give them a huge 6-7 year deal' types. Several of which are inconsistent players already, and that's before they get paid and start aging. 

Oddly for Brewers fan one of the safest bets out there is Hader, and obviously there is a connection there.  Sure he'll be overpaid but I mean safe in that you know what you're getting and he's almost for sure gonna be good. 

I'd also expect them to go hard for the Japanese pitcher.    After him, the MLB FA starters of course are no guarantees and not guys I'd want to be handing big deals to.  OF course they'd help the team especially from just good depth but to use this boards favorite term they're not 'needle movers'. 

I expect them to sign Hader but the Japanese pitcher that everyone seems to love is 25 and they won't be outbidding the Dodgers or either New York team for someone at that level.

[MrTPlush]

3 minutes ago, brewers888 said:

I expect them to sign Hader but the Japanese pitcher that everyone seems to love is 25 and they won't be outbidding the Dodgers or either New York team for someone at that level.

He prefers to play for a big market and any team on the coast (notably the west coast) will probably get a lot of preference points too. Chicago is a big market...but I don't know if people really view it as that. So yah...I doubt Chicago has much of a chance.