Counsell to Cubs

[wiguy94]

3 minutes ago, Vgmastr said:

The small market Brewers offered Counsell more in one season than what the big money Mets will be paying their manager over three seasons.

 

Counsell leaving for the money really did a good job getting Mendoza more money....wait no it didn't!

[LouisEly]

A few other thoughts.

1) For those of you on the Attanasio "penny pinching" bandwagon, the only way that is true is if Attanasio knew what the Cubs offer was.  Not only does that not appear to be true, when negotiating job offers you don't shop one offer to another company.  It's a really bad look, even worse than Counsell going to the Cubs.  Offers are always confidential, and it's very rare that one employer, even in baseball, knows what another employer has offered.  Shopping an offer around will get other employers to back out really quickly, because they know you'll do the same to them (and if you violate confidentiality once, you'll do it again).

B)  My guess is that with the Woodruff injury and Miley declining the offer, he was told that the Brewers were going to trade Burnes and rebuild and that sealed his departure.

3) As others have said, do not harass him or his family about this.  That being said, TP-ing his house and launching your dog's poop over his fence are fair game.

[Joseph Zarr]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

Counsell leaving for the money really did a good job getting Mendoza more money....wait no it didn't!

Mark's fault. It's all Mark's fault!

(Is this how I do it? New to this but want to get on that juicy bandwagon)

[AKCheesehead]

I wonder what AmFam is going to sound like on 5/27/24.

[wibadgers23]

1 minute ago, AKCheesehead said:

I wonder what AmFam is going to sound like on 5/27/24.

There will be some boos but more than half the stadium will be filled with Cubs fans so it’s going to be a mixture of both booing and cheering.

[HarveysWBs]

2 minutes ago, AKCheesehead said:

I wonder what AmFam is going to sound like on 5/27/24.

Sadly, I imagine it will be a far more mixed response than it should be.  So, basically, like any other Brewers vs. Cubs game.

[rickh150]

56 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Mark A dropping the note that there was no opportunity to match does not mean he would have been willing to. This just as easily could be CC knowing a number the Brewers had told him they wouldn't exceed. In that case there'd be no reason to shop the offer back to Mark as their red line had been clearly expressed earlier. Mark Attanasio seems to be desperately trying to control the narrative right now. Wouldn't at all be surprised if he's trying to save face for the stadium deal.

Go be a Cub fan then… Attanasio obviously wanted him back and would have paid him more than any manager in the history of baseball.
Go be a Cub if you are blaming Attanasio AT ALL for this.

[Frisbee Slider]

I wonder if CC takes the high road in his press conference or dishes dirt?

[Frisbee Slider]

1 hour ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

Mark Attanasio seems to be desperately trying to control the narrative right now. Wouldn't at all be surprised if he's trying to save face for the stadium deal.

Definitely. 
It is not like politicians need legitimate reasons to get cold feet or to grandstand. MA has hundreds of millions of dollars of reasons to control the narrative.

[rickh150]

1 hour ago, torts said:

I will say that any "fan" who actually harasses CC in real life outside of a ballpark is a trash human.  

No room for harassment, agreed. But the Wall of Honor plaque needs to be gone.

[Frisbee Slider]

Is Brett Favre ultimately joining the Vikings a parallel to CC to Cubs? I’d like the think Packer fans have forgiven Brett.

[wiguy94]

4 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Is Brett Favre ultimately joining the Vikings a parallel to CC to Cubs? I’d like the think Packer fans have forgiven Brett.

Nah because Brett was pushed out by the Packers. 

[rickh150]

3 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Is Brett Favre ultimately joining the Vikings a parallel to CC to Cubs? I’d like the think Packer fans have forgiven Brett.

 

3 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Is Brett Favre ultimately joining the Vikings a parallel to CC to Cubs? I’d like the think Packer fans have forgiven Brett.

Everyone knew it was to spite Ted Thompson first…. Favre still had no leg to stand on (since he walked away and retired first), but people could understand why Favre wanted to beat Green Bay.

[HarveysWBs]

14 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

Is Brett Favre ultimately joining the Vikings a parallel to CC to Cubs? I’d like the think Packer fans have forgiven Brett.

There was no warning for CC to the Cubs.  I remember thinking Favre to the Vikings was a terrible, but utterly predictable outcome once the NY Jets stop fell apart.  But this crap today?  It feels like we’ve reached a completely different level of betrayal.

As I think about it further and extend the analogy, if Craig had made a stop with the Mets, left after a few years (for whatever reason), and then ended up with the Cubs, it would still suck but it would hurt way less than this.

[Slippery_Pete]

We'll never forget you, Greg.

[MVP2110]

 

[HarveysWBs]

1 minute ago, MVP2110 said:

 

I at least give Hoyer credit for being man enough to go tell Ross to his face that he was going back on his word.  I fully expected that to have happened by phone call.

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, HarryDoyle said:

And he didn't want to manage a team who's owner only spends money on over the hill retreads to one year contracts and instead manage a team that will spend big money to put a real championship contender on the field.

Now...this is cute. The team that generates MASSIVE revenue and still ACTUALLY pinches pennies relative to revenue vs the Brewers!

People can't really just look at this and go "oh...payroll higher, owner cares more," right?

It's Chicago. Their ownership cares FAR more about real estate investments than the product on the field...

[BrewerFan]

42 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Nah because Brett was pushed out by the Packers. 

No, he wasn't.

They sent down McCarthy and Philbin down there.

Then Thompson and I believe Harlan went down there. BOTH groups to try and talk him out of retirement. He was adamant this time he was FINALLY retiring. 

Then we went through the off-season with Rodgers as the starter, we drafted Brohm, we drafted Flynn, we had 3 QBs, he wanted to come back and they said he'd have to compete for his job. 

He was not "pushed out." They asked him to come back...several times, then when they were well past that, he wanted to come back and was upset they didn't just hand him the starting job.

So he had no reason to be upset with the Packers and I don't see how anyone argues he was pushed out. 

 

****I GUESS if you want to make a steal man argument for Favre, he was "pushed out," that camp when they didn't just give into him...but I think that's a loose definition of the phrase pushed out.

[TURBO]

23 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

 

So he allowed it to be public that he was meeting with the Mets and Cleveland, but felt the need to keep it private to meet with the Cubs?

Why is that do you think?  Is it because he knew damn well what it would do to his public image to even take an interview with the Cubs much less actually go there to manage.

He knew that every Brewers fan in the country would hate him for making the transition to Chicago, knew it was a dick move, yet he did it anyway, in private, keeping it from everyone for fear of the backlash he would 100% be receiving.

He deserves all the hate coming his way, from MA, the fans and the media.  I'd like to see some truthful interviews with the players, interviews where they actually say what's on their mind, not what is politically correct.

[SeaBass]

Really? This isn't hard, the Cubs already had a manager. They weren't going to fire the guy unless they came to an agreement with CC. The conspiracy theories are running wild.

[TPlush]

This is a tough pill to swallow. Counsell was "one of us", a lifelong Brewers fan, doing his post-playing retirement dream job, managing his hometown team and playing a major role in building us into a formidable team year in and year out. It's tough to see Counsell go. And like everyone else here it's extremely frustrating seeing him throw all that away to go to the cubs. Literally go anywhere else besides chicago or st louis, and the fan base would understand. It doesn't take away what Counsell has done for the team these past years, but he deserves no love going forward.

 

That said, I think there is *a lot* more to the story than Cubs offer bank, CC accepts offer. Ownership (directly or indirectly) forcing the Hader trade mid-season to save a few mil after already being cheapasses every year, which essentially blew up an entire season, and one of our last shots to make a run with our big 3 rotation. Counsell is not an idiot, giving 2 ABs to Winker this year in the playoffs, I suspect was also sending a message - if ownership is too cheap to bring in anyone, literally anyone, so "if this is what you give me, I'll play him".

 

Attanasio's public statements all but confirm this. Saying CC has "lost us" and that the Brewers didn't have a chance to match the Cubs offer. Classic corporate executive stonewalling. Translation of the bs coming from Attanasio: "I was too cheap to pay market rate for one of my best employees, so I'm going to deflect the public anger by blaming him for going out and getting paid his market rate." Yes, CC ultimately made the decision to go to the Cubs, which is ******; but Brewers ownership had a huge role in this building up over a couple years, likely, and now pays the price.

[torts]

2 minutes ago, TPlush said:

: "I was too cheap to pay market rate for one of my best employees, so I'm going to deflect the public anger by blaming him for going out and getting paid his market rate." 

Um, he was offering above market rate for him, cubs just went above above.  The brewers offer was more than generous, and as mark said, we will see if his cubs deal actually "resets" anything.  Managers aren't in a union, it's not like players who set salary expectations by their peers performance.  

[valpocrewsader]

This is the plot twist where Mark, now far more motivated than ever to outperform Chicago, starts spending with reckless abandon to win at all costs and ensure the Brewers maintain a level of success above that of Craig Scoundrel and the Cubs ... resulting in WS magic in the next 1-3 years. All because of today. Just the push we needed. Today, November 6, 2023 -- a date which will live in infamy. 

[MrTPlush]

1 hour ago, Vgmastr said:

The small market Brewers offered Counsell more in one season than what the big money Mets will be paying their manager over three seasons.

 

Good sign this resets…nothing.