The Tyler Black and Brock Wilken factor in trades

[jay87shot]

I really like the idea of Black becoming a super utility guy who is like a 4th OF, plays 1B, 2B. 3B and DH's when no one needs a day off. I have loved Miguel Vargas as an option for us. He can play 3B, 2B, or 1B and has a middle of the order potential bat. It hasn't been mentioned but getting a SS that is mlb ready isn't a bad idea either. I still believe that Turang will be a quality bat but if not getting a SS prospect who could easily transition to 3B or 2B would make sense.

[Fear The Chorizo]

4 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

I really like the idea of Black becoming a super utility guy who is like a 4th OF, plays 1B, 2B. 3B and DH's when no one needs a day off. I have loved Miguel Vargas as an option for us. He can play 3B, 2B, or 1B and has a middle of the order potential bat. It hasn't been mentioned but getting a SS that is mlb ready isn't a bad idea either. I still believe that Turang will be a quality bat but if not getting a SS prospect who could easily transition to 3B or 2B would make sense.

No thanks - I don't want bat first guys to be forced into having to become utility players where their below average defense bounces from position to position with them.  If the bat will play, give Black a defensive position where he won't kill you and leave him alone.  Maybe a position change if someone else coming up is better suited for wherever Black is playing.

[LouisEly]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:42 PM, Scooterfletcher said:

My “dream” infield solution at this time next year has:

1B) Yelich gets a 1B glove next year not this year

2b) Black ends up most comfortable with the glove here

Ss) Turang takes over here after an Adames trade shortly and has a good enough year offensively 

3b) Wilken continues his ascent and is ready on opening day unless we manipulate for service time

Utility : Montaserio and Dunn

 

Not even 48 hours...

https://www.mlb.com/news/brewers-gm-matt-arnold-discusses-winter-meetings-moves

[BrewerFan]

5 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Because I think 2B with how the Brewers play is a position that they want a plus defender at - Black has been moved off that position for a reason.  

And to other posts earlier by others, I do agree if Wilken profiles as a better defensive 3B that he can easily stick there longterm if he rockets through the minirs this year and is in MLB by 2025, and Black could then shift to 1b or DH - but for 2024 I'd like to see the Brewers give Black an opportunity to stick at 3rd while also bringing in a legit 1B.  Carlos Santana on a 1 yr deal makes alot of sense to me if they aren't going to pony up what it would take to sign a Hoskins.

The past few years, both 1b and 3b have been offensive black holes on this roster, and have frequently been manned by utility middle infielders.  More than ready to give youngsters with offensive profiles that line up with corner IF positions a shot at locking those spots down.

What was the reason though? It seemed like it was largely a positional need with Turang/Adames at 2B/SS and Black in the upper levels. I don't 

Wilken isn't going to be up for at least a year, so they can see how Black moves on the dirt. These guys will mostly figure it out themselves. If Wilken is the next quick mover, he'll force his way into 3rd. You don't take a big dude who's athletic with that type of arm and plop him at 1B. Ideally Black shows off the Glove work and can play 2B when Adames moves on, but that doesn't feel like something we've gotta worry about right now.

As for now, neither has hit MLB pitching and Wilken hasn't even hit AA. So they'll have time to figure it out. 

But Wilken is hopefully the answer to our 3B issue. 

[nate82]

49 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

Wilken hasn't even hit AA.

Ummm Wilken finished the year in AA.  It is also his most likely starting point in ‘24.  

[BrewerFan]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:14 PM, nate82 said:

Ummm Wilken finished the year in AA.  It is also his most likely starting point in ‘24.  

Cool. He played 6 games. Doesn't change the point I was making, which was that he won't be up for another year.

[brewmann04]

Lets see what Black does even if he makes the  Major League Roster. I think he start @3rd

[RedStickBrew]

On 12/9/2023 at 5:23 PM, BrewerFan said:

What was the reason though? It seemed like it was largely a positional need with Turang/Adames at 2B/SS and Black in the upper levels….

I’m not a scout but did see several of his games live in Biloxi. My observation is that he had some issues going to his right and throwing back across his body to first accurately. That’s a problem playing second base when having to covering ground back up the middle. 

At third some of his throws seemed to tail/ sail a bit. They moved him to first base and DH where he played some as well before his promotion to AAA  

He was coming off surgery so his arm strength might still be improving so I don’t think 3rd is out of the question totally. He is a plus athlete, a good contact hitter with power, MLB ready and a very exciting prospect. 

[nate82]

2 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Cool. He played 6 games. Doesn't change the point I was making, which was that he won't be up for another year.

If everything goes right it is possible he makes it up to the Brewers.  Probably as a September call up.

I wouldn’t say he won’t be up for another year.  Prospects don’t tend to be on a linear path.

[BrewerFan]

11 minutes ago, nate82 said:

If everything goes right it is possible he makes it up to the Brewers.  Probably as a September call up.

I wouldn’t say he won’t be up for another year.  Prospects don’t tend to be on a linear path.

Well, I would. But you don't have to. How pedantic can we make this? The point is we'll have seen Black play well before Wilken makes it up. Be it another year or a WHOLE month earlier by being a Sept call-up. 

 

[CheezWizHed]

14 hours ago, nate82 said:

If everything goes right it is possible he makes it up to the Brewers.  Probably as a September call up.

I wouldn’t say he won’t be up for another year.  Prospects don’t tend to be on a linear path.

This would be very atypical Brewers development path.  Tyler Black started at AA and did just about everything right (including hitting AAA well) and didn't make the MLB.  Chourio played most the season at AA and a cup of coffee at AAA.  Frelick spent most of a season between AA and AAA, then another 40 games this year in AAA before coming up.  Wiemer spent a full season between AA and AAA. Mitchell played a full year between AA and AAA (shortened by injuries). 

More likely, Wilken plays out this year at AA (75%) and AAA (25%), then starts 2025 at AAA for a while before coming up. 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

More likely, Wilken plays out this year at AA (75%) and AAA (25%), then starts 2025 at AAA for a while before coming up. 

Yes but that is still not a zero percent chance.  It is possible the Brewers go against what they have done previously and move Wilken up.  It is impossible to say for certain what the Brewers plans are for Wilken. 

[CheezWizHed]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

Yes but that is still not a zero percent chance.  It is possible the Brewers go against what they have done previously and move Wilken up.  It is impossible to say for certain what the Brewers plans are for Wilken. 

Who said it was a zero percent chance?  

I gave a pretty long list of rookies being treated almost identically to show what is likely Wilkin's development path.  The OP was about him being blocked.  And given history that "problem" most likely won't be an issue for another year at least. 

Of course, maybe they will switch him to be a starting pitcher and replace Burnes as our TOR.  It is impossible to say for certain...

[Brewcrew82]

2 hours ago, nate82 said:

Yes but that is still not a zero percent chance.  It is possible the Brewers go against what they have done previously and move Wilken up.  It is impossible to say for certain what the Brewers plans are for Wilken. 

Yeah, it's quite possible Wilken comes back and kills AA pitching like he did which would make a call-up at some point all but certain. 

[nate82]

24 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Who said it was a zero percent chance? 

The other person I was replying to.

[TURBO]

5 hours ago, nate82 said:

Yes but that is still not a zero percent chance.  It is possible the Brewers go against what they have done previously and move Wilken up.  It is impossible to say for certain what the Brewers plans are for Wilken. 

Might also have a lot to do with where they are in the standings, and how good Wilken is in 2024...

Out of the playoff hunt, and Wilken is kicking butt in AAA could mean an early promotion.

In the playoff hunt and he has been mediocre all season with the bat could mean we go in a different direction to end the season.

So many factors will play into what happens with him in 2024 and 2025.

I'm putting money on the idea he sees MLB action sometime after the trade deadline, if not sooner if he is raking!

[CheezWizHed]

12 hours ago, TURBO said:

Out of the playoff hunt, and Wilken is kicking butt in AAA could mean an early promotion.

Except that would mean the Brewers put him on the 40-man a year earlier for a season we are out of the playoff race.  Doubtful.

I can only see one scenario... we are in the playoffs and we have a few IF-ers get hurt and we've run out of options. 

[BrewerFan]

16 hours ago, nate82 said:

The other person I was replying to.

And who was this?

[Bratwithspecialsauce]

Great, knowledgeable insights that I don't find on other Brewers pages.. rational responses instead of insults and  ego...A pleasure 

[dave]

I'd like to know why Yelich is not moved to 1b. It seems to be the one thing the Brewers seem pretty adamant about, but it seems like a natural move to make him the 1b/dh. Especially if Chourio is starting with the Brewers.  An outfield of Frelick,Chourio, and Mitchell with TT and Perkins on the bench and Weimer in AAA seems really solid....So many possibilities with this roster. It's going to be fun to watch how it plays out.

[brewcrewdue80]

1 hour ago, dave said:

I'd like to know why Yelich is not moved to 1b. It seems to be the one thing the Brewers seem pretty adamant about, but it seems like a natural move to make him the 1b/dh. Especially if Chourio is starting with the Brewers.  An outfield of Frelick,Chourio, and Mitchell with TT and Perkins on the bench and Weimer in AAA seems really solid....So many possibilities with this roster. It's going to be fun to watch how it plays out.

Good question, wrong thread. Try it in a thread about yelich at 1b.

 

Looked at Wilken stats last night, 6 games at AA less than 180PAs I believe at A/A+.  Chourio setting AA records and playing GG defense didn't crack AAA til the very end with 500+ PAs.  Wilken will likely gain his experience at AA for near all of 2024.  That 6 game sample did come with more K rate.  The age level may show that k rate bringing his hitting prowess isn't as high as the A experience to age.  

[sveumrules]

I would guess Wilken spends most of the year in AA, before getting a bump to AAA at some point in the second half.

While Chourio got a full season in AA, most of the other recent young Brewers bats like Wiemer (84 G), Black (84 G), Mitchell (79 G), Turang (73 G) and Frelick (52 G) moved through Biloxi more quickly since they were already 21 to 23 instead of 19.

[rickh150]

Will be interesting to see where Black starts season (AAA/MLB) and especially where he plays in the field. I feel he, more than anyone in the organization, is a mystery. If defense isn’t a concern, he coulda/shoulda just stick at 3B… wide open avenue to majors there. However, if he cannot play defense well somewhere, it seemingly doesn’t matter how good he hits.
 

[BrewerFan]

20 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Will be interesting to see where Black starts season (AAA/MLB) and especially where he plays in the field. I feel he, more than anyone in the organization, is a mystery. If defense isn’t a concern, he coulda/shoulda just stick at 3B… wide open avenue to majors there. However, if he cannot play defense well somewhere, it seemingly doesn’t matter how good he hits.
 

I'd like to see him start on opening day. If he struggles, you can always send him back down and rewind the service clock, but if he hits, give him an extension as well. 8/40M or whatever. Make the offer. But it'd depend on how he's doing it. Is he doing it like Mitchell did it, or is he maintaining an extremely high walk rate and making good contact, and playing well enough in the field that you'd feel good about him playing 1B or 3B moving forward.

Or ignore all that and just allow him the opportunity to earn the job as it's another crack at the draft pick compensation for ROY top 3 finishes. .284.417.513 in AA/AAA last year with nearly identical numbers in AAA. .514 SLG, higher OBP, higher BA by quite a bit. I don't think he was abnormally lucky in either with a .320 and .34 BABIP at each level. For a guy with speed like Black has, he'll probably be in the ~320 range for the most part. 

21 hours ago, sveumrules said:

While Chourio got a full season in AA, most of the other recent young Brewers bats like Wiemer (84 G), Black (84 G), Mitchell (79 G), Turang (73 G) and Frelick (52 G) moved through Biloxi more quickly since they were already 21 to 23 instead of 19.

Sure, Chourio was in a far different position in that he first hit AA at age 18. Then, on top of that, he also didn't quite hit the ground running in AA(the tacked ball or the fact that it's the biggest jump in levels until the jump from MiLB to MLB). 

I hope Wilken follows suit, I hope he's Pete Alanso but with elite defense at 3B with a monster arm and I hope he forces his way into the lineup this year. I didn't put a ton of thought into the "we won't see him for another year," I was just giving a general time line, not speaking in absolutes.

I think it's pretty unlikely he's up this year, but...it'd mean he's earned it(or we're just that bad again and we're desperate). 

[brewcrewdue80]

21 hours ago, rickh150 said:

Will be interesting to see where Black starts season (AAA/MLB) and especially where he plays in the field. I feel he, more than anyone in the organization, is a mystery. If defense isn’t a concern, he coulda/shoulda just stick at 3B… wide open avenue to majors there. However, if he cannot play defense well somewhere, it seemingly doesn’t matter how good he hits.
 

To me Adames being traded-Turang to SS makes Black your OD 2b.  Without the trade, I think barring some massive discrepancy Black ST batting vs Monasterio ST, Black starts in AAA for control reasons. You give Monasterio a reason to keep 3rd plus give Black the reason to show to take over 3b.

Lh side of a platoon is an option depending how your 1/3b works out. He's not a full platoon bat per say, but it's a rookie idea start with Monasterio at 3b. Option too then for what you try finding in a RH 1b platoon committing to Black for LH side.