Brewers Mount Rushmore?

[craigharmann]

I saw the comment in the IGT from yesterday about Yount being on the Brewers' Mount Rushmore. So, I thought that could be a fun thought experiment. Who ya got?

 

Yount and Molly are obvious. To me, Braun is third. And then comes the fun. My gut wants to say Prince, but my heart right now is leaning Jackson. Thoughts?

[Frisbee Slider]

18 minutes ago, craigharmann said:

I saw the comment in the IGT from yesterday about Yount being on the Brewers' Mount Rushmore. So, I thought that could be a fun thought experiment. Who ya got?

 

Yount and Molly are obvious. To me, Braun is third. And then comes the fun. My gut wants to say Prince, but my heart right now is leaning Jackson. Thoughts?

I think a Mount Rushmore is so permanent that you need to wait until the end of a career before etching it in stone. Chourio is already an all time Brewers legend, though.

Braun is ahead of Fielder. Prince was a fun slugger for 6+ seasons but not extraordinarily valuable beyond that. 

For pitchers, Teddy Higuera and Ben Sheets warrant consideration but neither are close to Yount, Molitor or Braun.

After Chourio’s retirement, he would almost certainly get the final Mount Rushmore spot.
 

Miz might not have enough seasons in Milwaukee but has had an all time excellent season on the mound.

[craigharmann]

28 minutes ago, Frisbee Slider said:

I think a Mount Rushmore is so permanent that you need to wait until the end of a career before etching it in stone. Chourio is already an all time Brewers legend, though.

Braun is ahead of Fielder. Prince was a fun slugger for 6+ seasons but not extraordinarily valuable beyond that. 

For pitchers, Teddy Higuera and Ben Sheets warrant consideration but neither are close to Yount, Molitor or Braun.

After Chourio’s retirement, he would almost certainly get the final Mount Rushmore spot.
 

Miz might not have enough seasons in Milwaukee but has had an all time excellent season on the mound.

Great point on waiting until the career is done. With Higuera and Sheeter, I’d say they’ve been the best pitchers, but longevity is a detriment to them. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Yelich won an MVP as a Brewer and nearly won two. I know the recency bias has soured some on his body of work, but he's as Mr. Brewer as it gets post-2000.

Molitor, Yount, Yelich, Braun is right on the line, I don't know that you want the scandal stuff on your Mount Rushmore. Uecker and Henry Aaron before him if it's not players only; I know Aaron is a 'Brave' predominantly but he's iconic to Milwaukee and I'd find a way to get him on. 

No one on the current team (besides aforementioned Yelich) has the longevity. Chourio and Miz may end up playing more than half their career some place else.

[MrTPlush]

Yount, Molitor, and Braun.

 

No one else is worthy. Yelich is great, but barely has more WAR than Jeff Cirillo (and Yeli has more PAs). Not to say Cirillo is as good, but it shows how no one else stands out past Braun. 

It will eventually be Chourio though. Already 10+ WAR and iconic moments.

[craigharmann]

27 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Yount, Molitor, and Braun.

 

No one else is worthy. Yelich is great, but barely has more WAR than Jeff Cirillo (and Yeli has more PAs). Not to say Cirillo is as good, but it shows how no one else stands out past Braun. 

It will eventually be Chourio though. Already 10+ WAR and iconic moments.

And ultimately, I think that makes the most sense. We've so many sort of stars that probably wouldn't be stars on other teams, or had careers cut short by injury or just fell off. 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think WAR is a great barometer for something like that. It's much more than that. Yelich is the face and leader of the team through a period of unparalleled consistent success, steward in the community etc., an MVP winner. The Brewers have never been as good as often as they are and he is a huge reason for it even if his numbers never lived up to the deal he signed. I'd be first to say Braun was a superior clutch player but the whole drug scandal thing is just not Mount Rushmore fodder. To me, Yelich is clearly the third player if this monument is restricted to players. If not, Mark Attanasio and Uecker are in the conversation.

[CheezWizHed]

I think you need to put Rollie Fingers on there...just to have that 'stache in stone! 

[MrTPlush]

31 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I don't think WAR is a great barometer for something like that. It's much more than that. Yelich is the face and leader of the team through a period of unparalleled consistent success, steward in the community etc., an MVP winner. The Brewers have never been as good as often as they are and he is a huge reason for it even if his numbers never lived up to the deal he signed. I'd be first to say Braun was a superior clutch player but the whole drug scandal thing is just not Mount Rushmore fodder. To me, Yelich is clearly the third player if this monument is restricted to players. If not, Mark Attanasio and Uecker are in the conversation.

Certainly, I can’t argue if someone wants to include Yelich. Trying to make a Mount Rushmore of Brewers is a bit mess from the jump just because of the small market nature.

It would help if it was opened up to include non players.

[sveumrules]

Carsten Charles Sabathia is my Chourio placeholder for now. Monuments are built for legends and I'd put his 2008 run up there with Bo Jackson and Andre the Giant for the most legendary things I've witnessed.

From 2008 to present there have been 1,859 individual pitchers seasons of at least 130 IP. During his 2008 run with the Brewers CCS put up a 39 ERA- (1st) | 56 FIP- (14th) | 40 HR+ (15th) | 72 WHIP+ (32nd) | 114 LOB+ (39th) | 253 K/BB+ (40th). 

This year Misio had a 43 ERA- (4th) | 52 FIP- (7th) | 62 HR+ (156th) | 61 WHIP+ (3rd) | 113 LOB+ (65th) | 233 K/BB+ (58th) for comparison. Even with a little bit of a clunker in G1, he's been pretty good in the postseason so far too with 16 IP of 54 ERA- | 48 FIP- | 49 HR+ | 72 WHIP+ | 213 K/BB+. (dang, might need to carve out two new spots sometime down the road)

Since Chourio debuted in 2024 there are 99 players with at least 30 postseason PA, as of today Jackson comes in at +1.23 WPA (1st) | .346 ISO (6th) | .327 AVG (7th) | 179 wRC+ (8th) | .429 wOBA (8th) | .420 xwOBA (10th). A true joy to behold.

[Playing Catch]

Selig, Aaron, Yount, Attanasio

[Brock Beauchamp]

5 hours ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

Molitor, Yount, Yelich, Braun is right on the line, I don't know that you want the scandal stuff on your Mount Rushmore.

These four are what I'd choose, and I wouldn't have to think about it very hard.

[homer]

Yuni B

(not blue font)

[craigharmann]

3 minutes ago, homer said:

Yuni B

(not blue font)

Over Lou Palsmo? How dare you, good sir?

[RobDeer 45]

Churio all four spots!  Ha!  Maybe a little recency bias there.  

 

Obviously Molitor and Yount.  Ability wise Braun would be next but I actually might hesitate to just put him up there.  He was as stud hitter and it's unfortunate his legacy is tainted.  I just don't know who you put in over him and it makes sense.

 

Yelich

Sheets

Hopefully Churio at some point soon soon

Prince

 

Braun really is the guy.... people will groan either way if he's on there or he's left off.

[hoosier]

No Braun for me, the taint of being a cheat who throws couriers under the bus is too much. My fandom was formed in the 70s and 80s so I am admittedly partial to that era. The suggestion of Rollie Fingers and the handlebar is immensely appealing. I would say definitely Robin and Molitor. Alongside them I would vote for Stormin Gorman, as much or more for the persona as for the production. If I had to name a fourth (and I agree, active names are ineligible) I would give strong consideration to Harry Dalton, who presided over the construction of the Bomber/Wallbanger teams. 

[CheezWizHed]

How can you forget Lou Palmisano! Woah Solvdd! 

If we extend past players (I saw Selig mentioned - and he does deserve credit), then Uecker is a no brainer...

[HarveysWBs]

Put me down in the “no Braun” camp. I get the votes in favor of him, and he was my favorite Brewer growing up. And yes, one can make a very sound case that the real Mount Rushmore is a testament to the fact that greatness does not preclude moral controversy. But if I’m making the call, Braun is out. His decisions and behavior were an absolute outrage. I can’t even begin to comprehend how I would have made sense of the Brewers winning the title in 2011 and then the scandal tarnishing all of it. I very well might have given up on baseball after that. So to me, he is persona non grata.

So assuming we’re considering only players, and that Yount/Molly are up there in whatever order you like, and Braun is out in disgrace, I’d put Sabbathia on for his role in rescuing the team from obscurity through a transcendent run in 2008, the likes of which we will probably never see again. And Yelich holds the last spot for now owing to his contributions as a whole. He’s a bubble guy, but hoisting a trophy would pretty much cement him for me.

[Team Canada]

Fun discussion, and obviously there are not really any wrong answers (other than Yuni B, that's definitely a wrong answer ;) ).

For me, the heads on the mountain have to be franchise icons. While CC's impact was huge and the performance over that few months was ridiculous, I can't put him on there with Yount and Molitor.

I appreciate the arguments for and against Braun. I think if are limiting it to 4, eventually (for sure if they win a Series), Yelich supplants him. Given more than 4 slots, Braun is the natural icon from the previous generation; Yelich is the recent/current, and Chourio is the heir apparent.

[Brewers Downunder]

In 10-15 years time the current crop might necessitate a bigger mountain 😉

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

The funny thing about this conversation is that it's taking place, in part, because the faces on the mountain are going to be different in 10 years, once we all get the benefit of historical perspective. 

The only thing I feel very confident in is that Yount isn't changing. He'll be up there forever.

Right now, Molitor, Yelich, and Braun feel like clear answers for the other three places to me, though I might go with a symbolic Ueck or CC (great suggestion, that) or Aaron as the fourth one, just to avoid the Braun controversy. If Fingers had pitched in the '82 World Series, oh boy. You'd maybe have to put him up there, especially if they'd won it. He feels like a historical "what if" for the purposes of lots of different conversations. He's not on the list (hence the blue earlier in the thread), but man. Maybe not as far off as it seems.

Chourio seems like the clear favorite to carve his own space. He's light years ahead of the current crop of young players, but you could certainly see Mis making a case on the pitching side, or Lara, Pratt, or Made putting up excellent career that warrant discussion. Does Turang put up 4 more years like these last two and then re-sign? What about Contreras? I think those two are unlikely adds, but Turang could have a case if he sticks with the Crew for the next four years. Some of it might come down to how much the Mt. Rushmore is going to care about postseason success and Brewers exclusivity. 

All of which is to say: it seems like we're watching a bunch of players who might end up in the conversation, and that's a great sign for this era of Brewers baseball.

 

[Jim French Stepstool]

24 minutes ago, Cool Hand Lucroy said:

 Some of it might come down to how much the Mt. Rushmore is going to care about postseason success and Brewers exclusivity. 

 

 

That's what makes this an inexact science, along with the player-non player question. For me:

Players only: Yount, Molitor, Braun, Yelich. Two of those guys were exclusive to Milwaukee & a third almost exclusive & will probably finish up here. that's a factor with me.

Everyone: Uecker, Yount, Molitor, Selig. Bud could've said 'screw it' & given up in the 5 years prior to the team arriving, and with the uphill struggle I don't think anyone would've blamed him. Braun/Molitor would be a good thumb wrestle for the 4th spot.

A 'Milwaukee baseball, players only' list would be a great debate to find a fourth: Aaron, Spahn, Yount &.............?

[Brewcrew82]

If JC keeps hitting like this and we win a WS, I would honestly have no problem putting him in there already. 

[nate82]

4 hours ago, homer said:

Yuni B

(not blue font)

Greatest SS/1B in Brewers history!!!

[crossface2311]

51 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

That's what makes this an inexact science, along with the player-non player question. For me:

Players only: Yount, Molitor, Braun, Yelich. Two of those guys were exclusive to Milwaukee & a third almost exclusive & will probably finish up here. that's a factor with me.

Everyone: Uecker, Yount, Molitor, Selig. Bud could've said 'screw it' & given up in the 5 years prior to the team arriving, and with the uphill struggle I don't think anyone would've blamed him. Braun/Molitor would be a good thumb wrestle for the 4th spot.

A 'Milwaukee baseball, players only' list would be a great debate to find a fourth: Aaron, Spahn, Yount &.............?

Eddie Mathews is the first guy that comes to mind. Not saying that's where I'd end up in the end, but that's the first name that came to mind.