Ned Yost = 3rd Best MLB Manager

[twobrewers]

I thought about putting this in the Ned Yost 2008 Last Shot thread, but didn't really want to create more Ned bashing. I am just posting this so people can look at the study and how they evaluated the Managers.

 

Anyways, according to the Wall Street Journal - Ned Yost is the 3rd Best MLB Manager

 

If a Mod wants to add this to the Ned Yost thread or move it to the Statistical Analysis forum - feel free.

[1992casey]

We should really be focusing on the chart and the related article:

 

Is Joe Torre Worth the Money?

 

If it doesn't work out that way, we can merge this into the current designated thread or move it to Statistical Analysis.

 

 

EDIT: fixed link

[adambr2]

Some of those look close to right, some of them just look bizarre. Boche at #2? Leyland at #19?

 

Most of those statistics are over the last 5 years. I would say Yost did a good job the first couple years when the W/L expectations were less and not as well lately when expectations were more. While he might have won close games in the past, I think it was his inability to make the key decisions to win close games that contributed to costing us a chance at the playoffs in 2007. I believe we set a franchise record in 3 run leads blown last year.

 

Still, he's clearly done some things right since he came here. But Yost doing a good job with marginal talent in 2003 and 2004 isn't going to help him in 2008.

[Tbadder]

Thanks Twobrewers, I just upchucked my eggs and bacon. 3rd best manager?

[Thurston Fluff]

While he might have won close games in the past, I think it was his inability to make the key decisions to win close games that contributed to costing us a chance at the playoffs in 2007

 

Did he magically get stupid or did he just have a lot fewer choices for late work in the pen last year or maybe random varience in small samples had somehting to do with it? I don't get this he ranked 7th in close games after six innings over a long period of time yet you chose to use the much smaller sample of last year as proof he can't manage? I'm also not sure what his record in close games was last year. If you have that information it might be more relevant than the much smaller sample of blowing three run leads. Especially when those three run leads are more directly related to lack of quality pitching than poor managerial decisions. After all it's hard to blame a manager when a pitching staff can't hold big leads.

 

I know it sucks when people show evidence by stats agianst closely held beliefs but come on give him some credit even if you don't like him.

[Fatter than Joey]

In the NL central maybe.

[jason21nl]

In the NL central maybe.

maybe in the NL central, Id put him the 4th best myself.

 

[craigharmann]

But if you had to choose between Ned Yost and Dusty Baker, who would you choose?

[TooLiveBrew]

Ned Yost >>>> Dusty Baker... which by the transitive property, of course means...

Tic-Tac-Toe playing Chicken >>>>>>>>>>> Dusty Baker.

[jason21nl]

I think that Baker is a better manager Yost. Yost really hasn't done anything for people to even say he is a good manager. I know what people are going to say, Baker ruins pitchers arms. I think all managers try to push their pitchers too far and Baker is no different. Didn't Yost keep JDLR or someone in when his nails were bleeding? I can't remember the whole situation, but I do remember him leaving someone in when he shouldn't have. Woods arm was going to get hurt no matter what., his delivery screamed arm injury.

 

My list of managers in the Central

 

Larussa

Piniella

Baker

Yost

 

Coop

Russell

 

give it a season and I'll probably put Coop ahead of Yost too

 

Baker has won manager of the year 3 times and has won over 1100 games in his career. He is a better manager than Yost is

[TooLiveBrew]

You may be right on Wood, but Prior was the pitching coaches' dream - flawless mechanics. Baker is a monster on young arms.

 

Yost really hasn't done anything for people to even say he is a good manager. I know what people are going to say, Baker ruins pitchers arms.

 

Yost is a fine manager in many aspects, and the biggest one during his tenure here has been helping to develop young guys into young stars. He's been instrumental in the growth of Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, etc. Sure, he gave Mench some ABs in front of Hart last year, but Yost had an unfathomable man-crush on Mench that I don't think anyone can explain.

 

On the whole, Ned is good with his pitchers during the games.

[TooLiveBrew]

Baker has won manager of the year 3 times and has won over 1100 games in his career. He is a better manager than Yost

 

That's incorrect usage of those facts, though. Derek Jeter has won 3 Gold Gloves - is he a better defender than Troy Tulowitzki?

[jason21nl]

I really don't think Yost has had any effect on the young guys. Those guys were going to be good players anyway, they fine toned their skills in the minors. If anything he held Hart back by not playing him.

 

Manager of the Year and giving away position awards isn't the same. They give the position awards to the better known player, they don't give the MOT away to the manager who has the best record or most well known manager.

 

 

I think the cubs hatred on this board make people hate Dusty Baker, that and the stupid tooth pick. I bet he makes a big difference for the Reds this year and they scare me as a team because of it.

[lukevan]

Well, Yost was in the running for MOY a couple seasons back, that should tell about how much stock to put into that award.

[Gobias Industries]

You may be right on Wood, but Prior was the pitching coaches' dream - flawless mechanics. Baker is a monster on young arms.

TLB: Scouts are very divided on Prior's mechanics. Some think they are flawless while others dread his mechanics.

 

Read this link for a good breakdown: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=157308

[ozzybourne]

after listening to and watching most of the brewer games last year, i cant fathom this ranking at all. and watching his performance over the last 5 years, yost should maybe be ranked as the 31st best manager in mlb.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think the cubs hatred on this board make people hate Dusty Baker, that and the stupid tooth pick. I bet he makes a big difference for the Reds this year and they scare me as a team because of it.

 

I bet he does too, but of the negative variety. Him coaching the Cubs or not has nothing to do with either my distaste for him, or the fact that he's a blockhead.

 

Gobias - thanks so much for sharing that. Just goes to show you what 'conventional wisdom' gets you. Even before I read about the dreaded "inverted W', I could see the way he sort of snaps his arm to catch up with the rest of his delivery. Thanks man.

[Oldcity]

I think Ned should have been fired, but I'd choose him a million times before ever choosing Dusty. He abuses pitchers, favors crappy veterans over better, younger players and severely undervalues OBP.

[TooLiveBrew]

and severely undervalues doesn't understand OBP.

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[logan82]

Didn't Joe Girardi win manager of the year while ruining 3 young arms for the Florida Marlins?

[giffted1]

It's ironic that Yost and Manuel, two managers that have been highly criticized came in third and fourth and guys like Leyland and Torre are near the bottom.

[TooLiveBrew]

Torre has long been a vastly overrated manager. The Leyland pick surprises me, though.

[endaround]

Wow that methodology sucks. Their close games measure looks only at games tied after 6 innings. So a 9-5 win that was tied 5-5 after 6 is considered close but a 4-3 win that was 3-2 deficit after 6 doesn't count.

[logan82]

The search for a good way to judge managers continues I guess.

[TooLiveBrew]

What sucks about it is how inherently massive any sort of 'rating' would be. There'd have to be so many components of it, and getting them to mean anything when lumped together would be the absurdly complicated part imo.

 

I'm sure we'll start seeing some in the next 5 seasons, as I know the beginnings to this search are already started.