Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[UpandIn]

35 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I was referring to TB NFCCG which was included in your criticism of Rodgers. He played a very good, if imperfect game. Yes they were stopped at the end. They also went against his wishes and kicked a FG on 4th down (a valid decision imo but not what he wanted). I don't think it is fair to pin that loss on him, just my opinion on that game/season. 

Ok...so the Tampa game? Then I'd point to the back to back possessions with a chance to take the lead off Jaire INTs where we went 3 and out.

I think it's fair...if you want to put him among the greatest QBs of all time. He's gotta do more and passing off the blame it's not cutting it. 

He can't get almost literally ALL the credit without getting the blame. Certainly more of the blame than you or others seem to be willing to put on him. 

I also took exception to his comments about...Packers fans who are disappointed are like pigs in ****. They "enjoy" it or some such nonsense that left Pat and Hawk confused. 

I AM far more willing to deal with the arrogance and the...just nonsense when they're winning than when they're not. I also think his body language IS demonstrably worse this year. 

[HarryDoyle]

And the hits just keep on coming.

 

[homer]

What we are seeing now is the end result from trading away draft capital every year to move up. That's a fine strategy as long as you have an almost perfect hit rate on the guys you trade for but that has obviously not been the case. 

They have acquired capital by trading down or trading players (traded down in 2018 and the Adams trade) but then squander that gain by trading it away to move up. 

Also, the Packers traded up to get Amari Rodgers. Yikes. Forgot about that.

[Fear The Chorizo]

4 hours ago, homer said:

What we are seeing now is the end result from trading away draft capital every year to move up. That's a fine strategy as long as you have an almost perfect hit rate on the guys you trade for but that has obviously not been the case. 

They have acquired capital by trading down or trading players (traded down in 2018 and the Adams trade) but then squander that gain by trading it away to move up. 

Also, the Packers traded up to get Amari Rodgers. Yikes. Forgot about that.

I wouldn't go that far - it's not like they've had a bunch of drafts with 5 picks or less where there just hasn't been enough bites of the apple to bring in talented young players.  Trading up isn't why they haven't had enough draft capital - they've just spent so much of it at the top of the draft on defense (and a developmental QB), and it's still way to early to assess what their 2022 draft class could wind up being as they develop.  

To me this roster is more the end result of playing salary cap gymnastics as long as they possibly could with a HOF quarterback on a late career resurgence, only to have Father Time finally chip away enough of him to where he can't make players around him better on the offensive side of the ball because they don't have enough experience on the outside after being forced to trade his go-to wideout.  The last couple offseasons the Packers have had to move heaven and earth with the cap to just hold onto most of their own, and haven't really done much of anything in free agency to bring in veterans in their prime from outside their organization - that's fine if those core guys you keep restructuring and bringing back continue to provide major impact, but at some point restructuring players around 30+ years of age isn't nearly as good an idea as bringing in younger guys at those positions.

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't know if I buy that in regards to Rodgers. The cap gymnastics aside I think he would available for about 2 seconds if it were just as simple as any team wanting him. The skill group is just awful right now. Doubs and Watson may be fine players but the norm for the rookie WRs is to diddle around 400 yards and endure lots of growing pains. They are asking those two to be the best on the team. The contingency plan needed to be more like OBJ or that quality and less like Sammy Watkins and Cobb. It's just a bad, bad group right now that I think anyone would have problems with. 

Combined with the injuries on the OL and it's just a recipe for the disaster we're witnessing. All that said...

They're in play for a 7th spot in the NFC. For now anyway. The upcoming schedule could change all that. But if they can regroup and get something out of what they have, might be able to finish respectably. Outlook not so good. Idk. Trying to be a fan and see some way they get back into this.

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

I don't know if I buy that in regards to Rodgers. The cap gymnastics aside I think he would available for about 2 seconds if it were just as simple as any team wanting him. The skill group is just awful right now. Doubs and Watson may be fine players but the norm for the rookie WRs is to diddle around 400 yards and endure lots of growing pains. They are asking those two to be the best on the team. The contingency plan needed to be more like OBJ or that quality and less like Sammy Watkins and Cobb. It's just a bad, bad group right now that I think anyone would have problems with. 

Combined with the injuries on the OL and it's just a recipe for the disaster we're witnessing. All that said...

They're in play for a 7th spot in the NFC. For now anyway. The upcoming schedule could change all that. But if they can regroup and get something out of what they have, might be able to finish respectably. Outlook not so good. Idk. Trying to be a fan and see some way they get back into this.

 

Yeah, I wasn't stating it was all on Rodgers taking a step back from being the 2x league MVP in his late 30s - the bad O-line and largely nonexistant contributions from WRs who are either too young to instantly contribute or old/washed up/injury prone play key factors, too.  Defenses have no reason to respect the passing game even with Rodgers slinging it, which says alot about how poor the other pieces of the passing offense are performing so far.  Watson seems just completely snakebitten by injuries, and unfortunately his rookie season looks to be a complete waste - tough to say things turned on a single play, but that drop on literally the 1st play from scrimmage against the Vikings has just encapsulated his season.  You've got to wonder if things would've happened differently for him this year had me made that play.

IF they can get some form of continuity along the line and the young WRs get their feet under them a bit more, I think they still have a shot at sneaking into the playoffs and being a tough out in January (definitely not the favorite or any semblance of a 2010 6th seed run to the title)....but at this point I could see it falling off the rails just as easily with a key injury or a tough November stretch of games.  I also think there are a few other NFC teams besides GB currently scuffling who have a much better chance at righting the ship and being the best team in the conference when it's all said and done - I'd like the Packers chances to right the ship if they weren't going to have to compete with the likes of TB, SF, LAR for one of those last wilcard spots.

[HarryDoyle]

 

[HarryDoyle]

 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, HarryDoyle said:

 

That is a confusing answer.  You can play 1 cornerback or both cornerbacks in man and then everyone else in zone it has been done plenty of times.  

Deion Sanders and a few others have done this.  When the Cowboys had Sanders he was the only one playing man at times while everyone else was in zone coverage.  Sometimes the other cornerbacks were in man coverage and Deion would play zone.  Even in cover 2 a lot of the times one or both of your cornerbacks are going to be playing man while others are in a zone defense.  

Has defense really become this dumbed down that the players can't play multiple techniques in a scheme at the same time?  You have to take advantage of the players you have and if you have a cornerback who can shut a WR down by playing man then you better be playing that CB in man defense the majority of the time.  If the situation calls for a zone defense run a zone defense but to say this it is just dumb.

I wonder if LaFleur knows you can use a spy on a mobile QB.  This would then force you to put Alexander on their main WR.  You now have two players normally your MLB and your #1 CB taking on the two biggest threats.  If you see Allen as one threat to run the ball you put the MLB on him and have your #1 CB on the #1 WR.  That essentially takes two options off the table or the QB has to gamble and either take a small gain if the MLB is doing their job correctly or forcing a throw to a tightly covered WR.  Your safeties then will have to take away receiving options 2 and 3 on mid-deep balls.  It leaves you exposed in the short game but if they are going to dink and dunk all game I think you take that over the explosive plays.  

[HarryDoyle]

What I'm wondering is if MLF and Barry were worried about Consins's mobility in Minnesota?

[adambr2]

I see we took care of our problems with our deadline acquisition of Nothing. 

Which honestly, is just as well because we aren't one trade away from a fix. 

This organization, IMO, is a rudderless ship right now. Between using a 1st round pick on the heir apparent to Rodgers at a time when we could have used help for him, to ...extending Rodgers when the heir apparent wasn't apparently the heir apparent, to trading away Rodgers' best receiver and surrounding a QB who relies on precision and years of acclimation in his twilight years with projects and question marks, to guaranteeing an expensive 5th year to a bad safety, to turning over a young, talented defense to a boring, vanilla retread coordinator, the Packers are operating with no rhyme or reason to anything they do. 

The regular season record from the last few years will buy some time, but I would guess seats will start getting warm in '23 and barring a strong showing next season, some new faces will be arriving in '24.

 

 

[patrickgpe]

Drafting Love was clearly an error, and Gutey has been chasing that mistake by making one after another. I am oK with keeping picks to try get some good players next year. Looks like they will be drafting in the top 1/2 of the draft too. 

[MrTPlush]

Rumor has it they were the landing spot for Claypool till the Bears swooped in.

 

I personally, am glad they didn't make a single trade. A WR was not going to help the offense. Even if we had better receivers the OL isn't going to let them get anywhere near their potential. I am not sure what the answer is next year. Probably signing a veteran WR that will actually be decent is a start. You then have to hope one of the younger guys breaks out. Of course the OL would look better if anyone could get open in a decent amount of time. 

I wish they would dump MLF and Barry, but the reality is I doubt that happens. They have a Super Bowl leader under center, which is 70% of the battle. They just need to get the right combo of OL help and WR help to make the offense click. I am not overly worried with the defense, there are plenty of good pieces on that side of the ball. 

I think this team is much too problematic to turn it around, but you never know. I definitely think they still have the pieces in place to fix the roster and have a super bowl potential team next year. I just don't know how much confidence I have in the front office doing what they need to do. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

59 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

Drafting Love was clearly an error, and Gutey has been chasing that mistake by making one after another. I am oK with keeping picks to try get some good players next year. Looks like they will be drafting in the top 1/2 of the draft too. 

I just can't see it that way since they finished the last two regular seasons since drafting Love with 13 flipping wins and everything in front of them to make Super Bowl runs.  A spring 2020 late 1st round draft pick on a developmental QB project who is now in his 3rd year is likely issue #75 with the 2022 team and why they currently sit at 3-5.

 

To me, Rodgers this season looks like he did back in 2018-2019 seasons - since many were clamoring for the Packers to think about picking their heir apparent when it looked like he wasn't the MVP-caliber QB then, the decision to actually draft Love back then just isn't a mistake.  Hell, people are already saying they want the Packers to try and draft their heir apparent in next year's draft 8 games into a season right after Rodgers signed an extension after 2 straight MVPs, and they still have Love for a couple more seasons on his rookie contract if they want to just see how things shake out.

If it all falls apart this year, I think the Packers move on from Rodgers either via trade or his retirement, and then roll with Love for 2023-2024 while they retool their roster and get back into a solid salary cap footing.  If the Packers somehow turn things around and are at least looking like a team set to bounce back in a big way next season I think Love could get dealt elsewhere

[OldHeidelberg]

They really should have tried to move Aaron Jones before the deadline. I knew the Packers were unlikely to raise the white flag with 5 home games left on the schedule but when you think about it they probably need to go 7-2 to make the playoffs. That seems like a pipe dream for the team I have have been watching. Jones may havee gotten us a nice haul and we will have to deal with him one way or the other in the offseason.

[Samurai Bucky]

[adambr2]

43 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

They really should have tried to move Aaron Jones before the deadline. I knew the Packers were unlikely to raise the white flag with 5 home games left on the schedule but when you think about it they probably need to go 7-2 to make the playoffs. That seems like a pipe dream for the team I have have been watching. Jones may havee gotten us a nice haul and we will have to deal with him one way or the other in the offseason.

I wouldn't have cared if they had dealt Jones but I really doubt they would have gotten back more than a 3rd at best. 

[HarveysWBs]

I'm cool with not trading draft capital at this point.  Goodness knows we're going to need it going forward, because our cap situation between 69 and 12 is hot garbage.

So, then, looking for a way forward this year, since punting on a season with this much invested in it should be unpalatable to all, it seems to me that 7-2 is the minimum required stretch run.  That can be accomplished by following a simple rule:  if it is a division game or a home game, better heck'n win, some way, some how.  That means, in order:

• W @ DET (have to have it to stop the bleeding)
• W vs. DAL (Rodgers cannot and will not lose to MM)
• W vs. TEN (I'd be ok dropping this one if we beat Miami later, but see below...)
• L @ PHI (yeah, no)
• W @ CHI (no time to let our younger brother of the division win one)
• BYE
• W v. LAR (MLF has to continue recent dominance of the Rams)
• L @ MIA (...we never win in Florida)
• W vs. MIN (we ain't winning the division, but have to have a season split here)
• W vs. DET (if we're still in contention by this point, this had better be a lock)

Tiebreakers will be critical, so minimizing conference losses is a key to the above scenario.  There is no way we are going to be in Philly's orbit so we don't need to have a head to head win there, but we probably need every other conference win on the schedule.  As such, the Miami loss, while painful because any loss hurts our chances, is not an absolute killer.

But, I have eyes just like anyone else here, and I know everything has been cheeks so far, so under what circumstances is a turnaround even feasible?  First, it all starts up front.  Our run blocking has been serviceable recently (especially with most defenses taking a run funnel approach this year), but pass pro has been a critical failing on several fronts.  Most worryingly, this has continued despite getting weak-link Newman out of the lineup.  Simply put, if the Packers have a prayer of going anywhere, that has to get right, and it has to happen fast.  Maybe they beat Detroit performing like this, but then Parsons is in town--time is short, and Stenavich and Butkus need to earn their money now.  Hopefully Jenkins is back in at guard this week (his injury is from getting stepped on, it seems, nothing more serious).

Second, Barry needs to find whatever chemistry and answers he can to prevent a mutiny on defense.  The rumblings are getting louder, and if he completely loses the players, we're hosed.  This brain trust is as conservative as they come as far as in-season staffing changes, so until the offseason (hello, Vic Fangio?), Barry is the guy.

Third, the offense stops pretending it is what it wants to be, and starts acting like what it is.  This sort of happened in Buffalo, but two turnovers on downs short-circuited promising drives that they could ill-afford against a superior opponent on the road.  In theory, the margin for error is slightly more forgiving in Detroit this week.  But everyone needs to keep looking in the mirror.  LaFleur needs to ensure Aaron Jones remains an integral part of this offense, Rodgers needs to keep trusting the rookies to develop, and everybody needs to perform better in critical short-yardage situations.  Going for it on 4th in your opponent's territory is the correct call, but between the tackle run calls?  We can do better; the team has the talent under center and the creativity in the playbook to progress to the mean on that.  And a few more over the middle throws from 12, especially on play-action passes with the QB's back to the defense, should do wonders.  Other teams are making do this way with less talent than we have.

Finally, assuming the above happens and we're 7-6 going into the bye, it would be time for a talent infusion.  Assuming one (or both!) of Fuller or OBJ is still waiting by the phone, that should probably get done.  An extra player that must be accounted for (or even double-teamed?!) would do wonders down the stretch.

In summary, and in descending order of my confidence they will happen:

1. Offensive line improves in pass pro
2. Offense continues upward trajectory
3. Barry holds it together
4. Gute brings in Fuller and/or OBJ for the stretch

That's all I got.  Personally, I give us one chance in three.

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

There will probably be at least one 9-8 wild card team in the NFC playoffs at No. 7 and they might be worse. The NFC south champion could be under .500. 

That's all just to say the Packers could flop in as a pretty bad looking team if none of those bubble teams save themselves. It's not the kind of year where an 11-win team will miss out.

It would be cool if the entire NFC East made it though, which is possible right now anyway.

[LouisEly]

6 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Rumor has it they were the landing spot for Claypool till the Bears swooped in.

 

Both offered a 2nd round pick for Claypool.  But they took the Bears pick because they believed it would be significantly higher.

So what does that mean?

THE BEARS STILL SUCK!!

[UpandIn]

1 hour ago, LouisEly said:

Both offered a 2nd round pick for Claypool.  But they took the Bears pick because they believed it would be significantly higher.

So what does that mean?

THE BEARS STILL SUCK!!

So many rumors, it's hard to know where they're all coming from, but that seemed to be a consistent one. Packers had the best offer on the table for Claypool to start the day...the Bears(for some asinine reason) came in and out-bid them. The Bears need those picks to just...draft all the offensive linemen. Spend a year just using 9 picks on the OL. 

Another was that Denver wanted a 2nd and a 5th for Jerry Jeudy. I personally think if you were willing to give up a 2 for Claypool, Jeudy makes at least as much sense. He's more the type of WRer we need. 

There are questions about Claypools...work ethic/ego, plus, he's big, fast(not a good run blocker apparently...at least not consistently). 

But more than anything, he's just a little redundant. What we needed was a quicker WRer with good to great route running ability. That's DJ Moore, Bradin Cooks...and then Jerry Jeudy who has a couple years left @2M in '22(obviously about 1M now prorated) and ~2.6 in '23 with the 5th year option looming. 

[UpandIn]

6 hours ago, HarveysWBs said:

I'm cool with not trading draft capital at this point.  Goodness knows we're going to need it going forward, because our cap situation between 69 and 12 is hot garbage.

Well, luckily for the most part, we've got young talent at key positions. OL, Tom, Jones, Walker all look like they could be future starters at OT, Rhyan maybe at OG, Myers and Runyan are solid and young. Hopefully Bakhtiari's knee is getting stronger and he'll be able to stay on the field along with Jenkins(or I may re-think giving him an extension).
At WRer Watson is a freak athlete who's had a terrible start. Doubs looks like a hit. Toure even looks like a future contributor.

Those cap situations get cleared up quickly. We'll spend a year or two in purgatory and then get out of it. Plus the cap is rising so much, particularly after next year. I'd have given up the picks(I didn't love the idea of a 1st in this upcoming draft when I was easily duped by the infamous "IanRappafart" account, but I'd gladly have parted with a 2 and a 5. 

Bakh's knee is still obviously troublesome, but once again, he was on the field playing vs Buffalo at an elite level. Just shutting down Von Miller. 

But we're seeing how this team just CANNOT get on track. You get Bakh back, plays at an elite level...but you're forced to put the undersized Tom in at LG and he just gets thrown around because he's just...a year away(probably better at LT than in a phone box vs more physical DL). 

Watson comes out and he looks electric...for ONE play. He looks like he's playing at another speed on the field. He just can't seem to stay on it.

Lazard's our Goon. Also injured.

The defense, they play aggressively and Jaire gets burned, Stokes gives up a big play and Barry wants to go back to go back to quarters D.

This team IS as talented as any the Packers have had in a very long time, they just have some very big holes in some very bad areas. I could see those getting cleaned up and they could go on a run...but it's a bit of a stretch at this point. 

EVERYTHING would be easier if we knew what Rodgers plans were.

This team seems like it's a year away. Another year of development from Watson, Doubs, Tom, Enagbare(who looks good)...

But, we're stuck in this position where we don't know if we'll have Rodgers next year putting that much more pressure on the young guys right now. 

 

Maybe the best thing is the Packers finish up with a pick in the top ~12-15, Rodgers retires, we go out and get one of the dozen QBs with big time NFL potential and re-load. Purge Bakh, Rodgers from the cap this year and let the young talent grow together. 
Or maybe they go on a run and Rodgers wants to come back and we add more talent around Rodgers next year. 

And maybe this team goes on a run and wins a Super Bowl...which as far fletched as it seems right now, probably not as unlikely as Packers fans think at the moment(though pretty far fetched). 

[adambr2]

So let me see if I understand this right. 

It took our team 8 games, basically half of the regular season, to feel ready to play a football game. 

8. 

There is a massive coaching/leadership problem on this team if this is true. 

[homer]

I'm a little tired of him blaming everyone but himself. A leader would stop calling out teammates and start taking responsibility. Adversity reveals character...sure is revealing something about Rodgers.

[MrTPlush]

*Rodgers uses the word 'we'*

You know I am really tired of him calling everyone out but himself.