Packers 2022 Discussion Thread

[Fear The Chorizo]

On one of the SF blocks, the Packers lined up 4 people to block 6 rushers. There was a timeout or something, and then a regroup, and they came out with the exact same 4v6 blocking scheme. That alone is grounds for firing.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a FG blocking formation is pretty straightforward in that there are always 4 blockers on either side of a snapper. If a team were to dedicate more blockers to one side of the formation, wouldn't the opponent just slide more rushers to the weak side?

 

That FG block at the end of the 1st half occurred because Lancaster set up too far back and too wide of Lowry on the left side of the line. That alignment created a huge gap in the protection on that side. Then, after Lowry engaged the guy directly in front of him he blocked in towards the interior of the line and left Lancaster on an island against 3 49er rushers. Lancaster opted to try and block the rusher furthest to the outside (he whiffed even trying to do that), but doing so left a wide open lane for a free rusher to cut into the center - which resulted in him being able to block the kick practically with his face. The rule on FG blocking at the edges is to always block the inside guy 1st if faced with a 2 on 1 situation - because if the mechanics of the snap/hold/kick are in sync the outside rusher won't have time to impact the kick.

 

A very similar mistake was made by Barnes on that punt block in the 4th quarter - GB had plenty of blockers on the right side to handle what the 49ers did...but at the snap of the ball Barnes turned outside to block a rusher coming towards him and wound up double teaming that guy with McDuffie while the undersized long snapper was forced to try and block a defensive lineman rushing right up the gut. If Barnes does the same thing Burks did at the other side of the formation (stick glued to the longsnapper for a count to make sure there wasn't a rusher coming up the gut before peeling outside to block or run downfield to cover the punt), the guy who blocked the punt doesn't come close to doing so.

 

The formation design for both of those blocks was just fine - the execution by the players was atrocious and I'd all but guarantee those specific players were identified as potential weaknesses to try and exploit with creative block rushes by the 49ers based on film review. The decisions those players made on the pair of blocked kicks is a failure of coaching to drill the proper technique into them.

[Joseph Zarr]

Bisaccia is Great. No excuses any longer. If they fail after this hire it is time to get the Witch Doctor into Lambeau.

[CheezWizHed]

...I'm pretty sure the point of the post wasn't to sign Jarrett Bush or Jeff Janis.

 

[sarcasm]Yeah, thanks for the help... [/sarcasm] I'm pretty sure I understood he didn't want to sign Bush or Janis specifically. They represented special teams specialists that mainly were useful as gunners on coverage teams.

 

I'm also pretty sure that my point was that our biggest problems wouldn't have been solved by specialists LIKE Janis or Bush.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

...I'm pretty sure the point of the post wasn't to sign Jarrett Bush or Jeff Janis.

 

[sarcasm]Yeah, thanks for the help... [/sarcasm] I'm pretty sure I understood he didn't want to sign Bush or Janis specifically. They represented special teams specialists that mainly were useful as gunners on coverage teams.

 

I'm also pretty sure that my point was that our biggest problems wouldn't have been solved by specialists LIKE Janis or Bush.

 

I guess it was moreso the idea of having players like Janis and Bush on the roster. Guys who were there predominantly for their special teams work. They key is getting several players on that side of the ball who take pride in knowing their assignments and their teammates' assignments. Not random rookie 6th round picks who are only on the team because the team invested a draft pick in them.

[nodakfan17]

After the way special teams performed in 2021, I would not have been upset if the Packers put out feelers to the ACTUAL Jarrett Bush and Jeff Janis (only half joking).

[adambr2]

Jeff Janis had 101 receiving yards on one drive. Can some historian confirm or deny that that is an NFL playoff game record?

[CheezWizHed]

By definition K, P(holder), and LS are all specialists. Fixing the LS would've fixed many of our woes last year, though I don't think you are talking about that in specialists.

 

Having a return specialist would've solved our catching the ball woes. But Rodgers actually did do returns before, so it wasn't like they just threw him in the role. He just stunk. He wasn't just a 6th round pick. Neither Janis nor Bush returned kicks (I think Janis did once or twice, but that wasn't how he made ProBowl on ST either).

 

So when you say keeping a ST specialist like Bush or Janis, I just don't see how someone like one of them would've actually helped our biggest issues last year. Would we keep a specialty blocker?

 

Ironically, the main reason Bush (CB - UDFA and waiver wire pickup) and Janis (WR-7th rd) were kept on the team for the first couple years was the potential at their regular positions. It wasn't until a few years in that they found out they were ST greats.

[patrickgpe]

maybe reading too much into this, but I would think if the Packers are making Bisaccia the highest paid ST coordinator, they have to think A-Rod and Adams will be back for one more run in 22.

[nodakfan17]

maybe reading too much into this, but I would think if the Packers are making Bisaccia the highest paid ST coordinator, they have to think A-Rod and Adams will be back for one more run in 22.

I had that same thought … we’re probably reading too much into this.

[homer]

Jeff Janis had 101 receiving yards on one drive. Can some historian confirm or deny that that is an NFL playoff game record?

 

That was one of the craziest drives in NFL history. They tied the game after this:

 

 

For some reason, GB completed the first hail mary and then decided not to spike it.

 

[Matt Breen]

Special teams represent something like 20% of the plays in a game. To make it an afterthought is criminal and plain stupid. It's not like hiring a good coach or two counts against the cap. Kind of ridiculous that it got to this point for the team to actually react other than verbal platitudes.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

...I'm pretty sure the point of the post wasn't to sign Jarrett Bush or Jeff Janis.

 

[sarcasm]Yeah, thanks for the help... [/sarcasm] I'm pretty sure I understood he didn't want to sign Bush or Janis specifically. They represented special teams specialists that mainly were useful as gunners on coverage teams.

 

I'm also pretty sure that my point was that our biggest problems wouldn't have been solved by specialists LIKE Janis or Bush.

 

And I realize you didn't think that, but you responded to him as though that was his point. A bit odd.

 

Second, I disagree completely. The coverage team was a huge problem all year, people shouldn't just be zeroing in on the blocking mishaps because they dominate the final loss of the season. The coverage team has been bad for years. They even gave up a 45-yard return in the SF loss.

 

They don't care about ST. They can keep saying they do, but the truth is they've done next to nothing to improve those units outside of firing the coordinator and crossing their fingers. Who knows, maybe AJ Dillon could have made up the difference in the game if he weren't hurt blocking on a kickoff.

[PeaveyFury]

Biasaccia was reportedly the Bears' first choice for ST as well, so you have to think the Packers' backed a dump truck of money up to his house to beat the other offers. Good news, obviously.

[patrickgpe]

Biasaccia was reportedly the Bears' first choice for ST as well, so you have to think the Packers' backed a dump truck of money up to his house to beat the other offers. Good news, obviously.

wish i could find the link. saw a link on FB and can't remember the source over lunch that this contract will set a new bar for ST coaches.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Dillon getting injured on ST early in the 2nd half absolutely hurt their offense and probably left points on the field - the snow made that slick field ideal for a 240-lb RB to get a ton of carries, churn clock, and move the chains. Not having him forced GB to try and use Aaron Jones in that role and he appeared to wear down. The drive they actually scored a FG in the 2nd half was pretty much all #33.

 

And yeah, it's not just ST units blocking to prevent kicks from getting blocked (that's actually the easiest thing to get right on special teams, to be honest) - coverage units were a disaster and return units were better served taking fair catches and touchbacks, too.

[CheezWizHed]

And I realize you didn't think that, but you responded to him as though that was his point. A bit odd.

 

Second, I disagree completely. The coverage team was a huge problem all year, people shouldn't just be zeroing in on the blocking mishaps because they dominate the final loss of the season. The coverage team has been bad for years. They even gave up a 45-yard return in the SF loss.

 

Perhaps you should re-read my post... I pointed out that that type of special team specialist wouldn't fix the top three ST and listed them specifically. And I actually listed coverage as the 4th largest problem on ST. Sadly, as bad as they were on coverage... they had much bigger problems, IMO.

 

If you read one single sentence out of that post, it could be misinterpreted as literally signing Janis or Bush. If you read the context of the post, it was pretty clear I was referring to that type of player.

[LouisEly]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a FG blocking formation is pretty straightforward in that there are always 4 blockers on either side of a snapper. If a team were to dedicate more blockers to one side of the formation, wouldn't the opponent just slide more rushers to the weak side?

Teams have been loading an additional blocker to one side of the line for several years now, especially if they think that they are susceptible to a block from one side. Typically this happens when they are towards one of the hashmarks.

[adambr2]

Jeff Janis had 101 receiving yards on one drive. Can some historian confirm or deny that that is an NFL playoff game record?

 

That was one of the craziest drives in NFL history. They tied the game after this:

 

 

For some reason, GB completed the first hail mary and then decided not to spike it.

 

 

Really never understood what Rodgers was thinking not spiking the ball, especially after all his linemen just had to run 70 yards downfield.

 

Not totally sure why there wasn't a 10 second runoff either. Very fortunate they were still able to run 2 plays after this.

 

Always wished they had gone for 2. Given how down they were on weapons, I probably would have lined up shotgun 3 wide, handed it to Lacy, and whatever happens happens.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

And I realize you didn't think that, but you responded to him as though that was his point. A bit odd.

 

Second, I disagree completely. The coverage team was a huge problem all year, people shouldn't just be zeroing in on the blocking mishaps because they dominate the final loss of the season. The coverage team has been bad for years. They even gave up a 45-yard return in the SF loss.

 

Perhaps you should re-read my post... I pointed out that that type of special team specialist wouldn't fix the top three ST and listed them specifically. And I actually listed coverage as the 4th largest problem on ST. Sadly, as bad as they were on coverage... they had much bigger problems, IMO.

 

If you read one single sentence out of that post, it could be misinterpreted as literally signing Janis or Bush. If you read the context of the post, it was pretty clear I was referring to that type of player.

 

Then I would disagree, strongly. The coverage team was a problem more often than anything else. Having more than one blocked kick is always bad, but that really didn't cost the Packers too badly until the final game of the year.

 

The Packers lose the field position game week in and week out. Getting a kick blocked is a lot more memorable than giving up a 15 yard return but that is something the Packers do all the time. That and they can't catch. And even when they had a guy who could do it, they decided to deactivate him in the biggest game of the year.

 

We will see what happens, but I'd like to think blocking long enough to kick a ball is one of the easiest things imaginable to fix at the professional level.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

No 10-second runoff on Arizona play because the foul happened during a play. No run off there.

 

As far as the 2-pt goes, recently I read, might have even been this year, it was considered and I believe was going to be the call. But Janis was hurt and had to come off the field for the 2pt. They didn't have WRs to run a play they would have wanted to. I also would always go for 2 there.

[Joseph Zarr]

Dillon getting injured on ST early in the 2nd half absolutely hurt their offense and probably left points on the field - the snow made that slick field ideal for a 240-lb RB to get a ton of carries, churn clock, and move the chains. Not having him forced GB to try and use Aaron Jones in that role and he appeared to wear down. The drive they actually scored a FG in the 2nd half was pretty much all #33.

 

And yeah, it's not just ST units blocking to prevent kicks from getting blocked (that's actually the easiest thing to get right on special teams, to be honest) - coverage units were a disaster and return units were better served taking fair catches and touchbacks, too.

 

File this under: 'Complaints I still have from the Playoff Loss'

 

Definitely agreed on Dillon and its impact. However, I would like to point out they had a capable Back-up to use in his stead in one Patrick Taylor. He proved himself in Detroit. Had they wanted to ground and pound they still had an option. Like the O-Line choices, I found this to be another case of the Packers Packers-ing themselves. There were basic decisions to be made to give the team a better shot at success - using Taylor OR in the very least trying him on for size after clearly showcasing himself in Detroit (not to mention showing us he had hands); NOT using their O-Line configuration (this still confounds me today); not choosing David Moore to return punts. A-Rod has a better game, none of this matters. BUT, when A-Rod isn't seeing the field and is single-focusing on Davante, these choices really made a difference.

[Joseph Zarr]

No 10-second runoff on Arizona play because the foul happened during a play. No run off there.

 

As far as the 2-pt goes, recently I read, might have even been this year, it was considered and I believe was going to be the call. But Janis was hurt and had to come off the field for the 2pt. They didn't have WRs to run a play they would have wanted to. I also would always go for 2 there.

 

Oh goodness...is that the Larry Fitzgerald catch and run for 70 yards first play of OT game? Good God we have a boatload of heartache.

[CheezWizHed]

Then I would disagree, strongly. The coverage team was a problem more often than anything else. Having more than one blocked kick is always bad, but that really didn't cost the Packers too badly until the final game of the year.

 

The Packers lose the field position game week in and week out. Getting a kick blocked is a lot more memorable than giving up a 15 yard return but that is something the Packers do all the time. That and they can't catch. And even when they had a guy who could do it, they decided to deactivate him in the biggest game of the year.

 

We will see what happens, but I'd like to think blocking long enough to kick a ball is one of the easiest things imaginable to fix at the professional level.

 

That is a fair counter. But I never said that wasn't a problem; I just rated it 4th. For my top 3 reasons, a Janis/Bush type special teams player wouldn't fix. Even if someone like that fixed coverage, our ST unit still rates extremely low due to the other three problems (this was the point of my OP that started our conversation here).

 

My main thought was that the other three things are really basic special teams functions that we couldn't get right. If you can't get the basics right, you have no hope of coordinating your coverage teams (which does take cooperation, timing, and discipline). Our coverage last year looked more like backyard "go git 'em!" football. And returners found a lot of holes to exploit.

[patrickgpe]

the Bisaccia hiring is official!

[GAME05]

Can't believe they got him. Really figured he'd be in line for HC somewhere or at least Coordinator considering the amazing job he did keeping that team together through all their drama and problems. Either he's making bank or they promised he'd lead a complete rebuild of the way they do special teams. Otherwise it's hard to figure this would be a step up. This latest Packers ST firing is the latest of many, so if everything else is status quo it's hard to figure anyone succeeding in that position.