2022 Brewers Offense

[Robocaller]

My take: The offense doesn't matter THAT much to THIS team.
Of course, improvement would be great. But no trades (or fluky second halfs) will make us an offensive juggernaut.

This team will go nowhere (once they get in the playoffs) without dominant starting pitching and a dominant back end of the bullpen. If we don't get that, we're just wasting resources acquiring marginally better players.

 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

15 hours ago, brewers888 said:

I want to hear a good explanation why Hiura who has been this teams best hitter this season was sent to AAA. 

I assume it's because they want him to get consistent ABs

[wntrtxn21]

2 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I assume it's because they want him to get consistent ABs

Hiura was sent down to get more ABs and because there is nobody else CC could send down. Davis is needed until Taylor gets back to play CF. Brosseau,  one could argue he has been the Brewers' best hitter and is much more versatile.  Severino has no options left and they need the full staff of pitchers the way things have been going. 

[brewers888]

I really question what the organization is teaching these hitters. A perfect example of this is Urias whose hit tool was considered elite as a prospect yet all the guy does at the major league level is swing for the fences. He should be a consistent .300 hitter with 10-15 HRs instead of hitting near .200 with more power.

You really have to wonder what is going on with a lineup that has no high average bats. Most of the lineup looks like they are getting ready for the home run derby just swinging for the fences regardless of the situation.

[NBBrewFan]

2 hours ago, brewers888 said:

I really question what the organization is teaching these hitters. A perfect example of this is Urias whose hit tool was considered elite as a prospect yet all the guy does at the major league level is swing for the fences. He should be a consistent .300 hitter with 10-15 HRs instead of hitting near .200 with more power.

You really have to wonder what is going on with a lineup that has no high average bats. Most of the lineup looks like they are getting ready for the home run derby just swinging for the fences regardless of the situation.

I don't really think it's the coaches. It's the hitters.  They just aren't very good.  Adames had a great streak for about 3 months last year, but he hasn't approached those numbers and he'll likely be above average and not elite.  Rowdy was given away and his streakiness and overall production is about average.  Cutch is crap, Yelich is bad Marlin Yelich and his days of ever being elite again are gone.  Renfroe hits like a player the Red Sox and 3 other organizations just gave away. Wong is a typical Cardinals reject (i.e. his best days were long gone). Narvaez is above average, but he also spends months hitting like a replacement level player.  Taylor is average at best. Average, average, average. When they face very good pitching they are overmatched.

[brewers888]

2 minutes ago, NBBrewFan said:

I don't really think it's the coaches. It's the hitters.  They just aren't very good.  Adames had a great streak for about 3 months last year, but he hasn't approached those numbers and he'll likely be above average and not elite.  Rowdy was given away and his streakiness and overall production is about average.  Cutch is crap, Yelich is bad Marlin Yelich and his days of ever being elite again are gone.  Renfroe hits like a player the Red Sox and 3 other organizations just gave away. Wong is a typical Cardinals reject (i.e. his best days were long gone). Narvaez is above average, but he also spends months hitting like a replacement level player.  Taylor is average at best. Average, average, average. When they face very good pitching they are overmatched.

I'm done blaming the coaches for these awful hitters but I do want to know what happened to Urias who was a high average limited power player in the minors and is now a low 200s hitter whose only value with the bat is when he hits home runs.

[torts]

I would just like to say that anyone saying cutch is crap is just being a negative Nancy, because he's been anything but crap since may

[mtsportsfan]

9 hours ago, NBBrewFan said:

I don't really think it's the coaches. It's the hitters.  They just aren't very good.  Adames had a great streak for about 3 months last year, but he hasn't approached those numbers and he'll likely be above average and not elite.  Rowdy was given away and his streakiness and overall production is about average.  Cutch is crap, Yelich is bad Marlin Yelich and his days of ever being elite again are gone.  Renfroe hits like a player the Red Sox and 3 other organizations just gave away. Wong is a typical Cardinals reject (i.e. his best days were long gone). Narvaez is above average, but he also spends months hitting like a replacement level player.  Taylor is average at best. Average, average, average. When they face very good pitching they are overmatched.

Completely agree , these guys just don't hit. That being said the approach at the plate needs to be questioned. Is it the philosophy of the organization to just free swing as hard as you can no matter the situation ? Or is it the players . no matter what it needs to change . watching this all or nothing offence is really hard to watch. 

[NBBrewFan]

14 hours ago, torts said:

I would just like to say that anyone saying cutch is crap is just being a negative Nancy, because he's been anything but crap since may

I hope the games in April and May count otherwise the Brewers are in trouble.

[Austin Tatious]

14 hours ago, mtsportsfan said:

Completely agree , these guys just don't hit. That being said the approach at the plate needs to be questioned. Is it the philosophy of the organization to just free swing as hard as you can no matter the situation ? Or is it the players . no matter what it needs to change . watching this all or nothing offence is really hard to watch. 

We just can’t string together hits.  I think our entire infield is under .230.  Urias. Adames. Wong. Tellez.  Center field is a black hole of gigantic proportions.  Our best player is probably Adames and he’s hitting .213 and batting second.   We need some guys who can get on base and string hits together.  The whole thing is broken.  

We’ve got some guys in the minors who can fix some of this but we are talking 2024 and it’s a question mark where we will be with our front line starting pitchers by then. 

[Thurston Fluff]

15 hours ago, mtsportsfan said:

Completely agree , these guys just don't hit. That being said the approach at the plate needs to be questioned. Is it the philosophy of the organization to just free swing as hard as you can no matter the situation ? Or is it the players . no matter what it needs to change . watching this all or nothing offence is really hard to watch. 

Offense is a homophone. Maybe they just got the wrong meaning.

[Jim French Stepstool]

With some of these guys, yeah, they "are what they are". But there are some curiosities. Urias is an excellent example. After watching him last season no one can tell me he doesn't have more to give, consistency-wise. Adames needs to fix his "chase-itis". The thing is, he often exhibits both ends of the spectrum--discipline & the desire to chase anything--within the same AB. Just really, really odd. Sometimes on-air guys talk about how the first two strikes are yours, the third one is for the team, in other words you shorten up. I want Adames to give all 3 strikes to the team. It would help his consistency, and there's no doubt in my mind he'd still hit with some power. Tellez to me is one of these guys who has power but still has pretty good bat-to-ball skills. The problem is, again, the chasing. He often does a nice job laying off pitches away, but needs to realize not everything in on him has HR written on it. I suspect when others struggle he tries to do too much, which is almost always a bad idea. He isn't Todd Helton or John Olerud but there should be much, much more consistency there.

Those are the three who I think have more to give. I also had Wong on that list, but his struggles on both ends leave me a little pessimistic.

 

[SomewhereInTime]

I dont agree with the "cant hit" or "bad offense" comments.  They have been average.  It is a lineup of all league average hitters which was exactly what was expected coming into the year really.

[Underachiever]

Whatever it is, it’s not fun, that’s for sure. Turned on today’s game late. Yelich ends the third with a dp, Joc Pederson smacks one off the wall and I turned it off.

just saw the current score.

[sveumrules]

Last post in the 2022 Offense thread was on 7/17. Since then the Brewers have an MLB best 145 wRC+ with the 4th most runs scored. Good job offense!! 

With the day off & an even 60 games left, thought it might be a good time to look back at the ebbs & flows of the season to this point…

First 50 games…

32-18 | 3.28 ERA (4th) | 228 R (7th)

Middle 11 games…

1-10 | 5.99 ERA (29th) | 35 R (28th)

Last 41 games…

24-17 | 3.96 ERA (13th) | 211 R (6th)

Outside of that two week stretch in the middle where everything went haywire the offense has been pretty consistent, more consistent than the pitching anyway.

If a poster had come on the board at the beginning of the season & said “after 102 games the Brewers will have a 3 game Division lead with the 6th best offense & 13th best pitching by runs per game” they probably would have got some pushback. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

After the dust has settled and the trade deadline passed, I look at tonight's lineup and say sure it might get the job done against the Pirates. But that lineup isn't winning multiple playoff series against playoff teams' 1-3 starters and the best of their pens. Really thought they'd make a bigger move to solidify the lineup and supplement the caliber of pitching we currently have after seeking it for decades. Unfortunately I see a team that looks likely to squeeze out 1-2 runs against playoff pitching. Hope I'm wrong.

[phnxcrew]

21 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

After the dust has settled and the trade deadline passed, I look at tonight's lineup and say sure it might get the job done against the Pirates. But that lineup isn't winning multiple playoff series against playoff teams' 1-3 starters and the best of their pens. Really thought they'd make a bigger move to solidify the lineup and supplement the caliber of pitching we currently have after seeking it for decades. Unfortunately I see a team that looks likely to squeeze out 1-2 runs against playoff pitching. Hope I'm wrong.

The last two deadlines now are inexcusable IMO.  every offense gets hot like the brewers have been and were for awhile last year, that doesn’t mean they can do that against top notch pitching.  This is like the packers approach on offense vs the 49ers in the playoffs year after year.  You can’t make the padres, dodgers and Mets score negative runs in the playoffs.

[Devinep]

26 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

After the dust has settled and the trade deadline passed, I look at tonight's lineup and say sure it might get the job done against the Pirates. But that lineup isn't winning multiple playoff series against playoff teams' 1-3 starters and the best of their pens. Really thought they'd make a bigger move to solidify the lineup and supplement the caliber of pitching we currently have after seeking it for decades. Unfortunately I see a team that looks likely to squeeze out 1-2 runs against playoff pitching. Hope I'm wrong.

It’ll likely be a playoff beating from the Dodgers, Mets, or Padres, who have stacked lineups while the Brewers will have old Cutch hitting cleanup vs righties, lose another year of great pitching, and people will be like “completely random that a team with Betts, Freeman, and Turner beats us and our bats just went cold (aka can’t hit good pitching).” 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

That's what really has to be grasped at this point. Playoff pitching in comparison to the arms bottom feeding teams and even good team's 4th and 5th starters throw out there in August is like the difference between night and day. A lineup with it's best hitter finding grass or seats with the batted ball at a 26% clip is very highly unlikely to score many runs against playoff pitching. Seems destined to be another wasted year of some truly generational pitching.

[SRB]

Since June 1, the Brewers have had the third best offense in the NL behind the Dodgers and Braves. We have the second most HR in the NL this season behind the Braves. We have the fifth best OBP.

I just feel like the contempt for our offense is not based in reality, in part because we have a balanced offense where everyone is contributing rather than one big superstar.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

19 minutes ago, SRB said:

Since June 1, the Brewers have had the third best offense in the NL behind the Dodgers and Braves. We have the second most HR in the NL this season behind the Braves. We have the fifth best OBP.

I just feel like the contempt for our offense is not based in reality, in part because we have a balanced offense where everyone is contributing rather than one big superstar.

I don't think anyone is worried about the offense being good to even above average against the likes of the Pirates, Cubs, Reds, Dbacks, Rockies, and Marlins. Some of us are contemplating what kind of numbers they'll put against playoff rotation top 3 starters and best 3-4 bullpen arms. And we're doing that contemplating because that's the big change that comes with games in October. It would be silly not to factor that in when you're a team that has a stated goal of winning a world series.

[torts]

Can you guess which lines are the Dodgers, Padres, Braves, Mets or Brewers against teams with winning percentages over .500?

Split	G	GS	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	TB	GDP	HBP	SH	SF	IBB	ROE	BAbip	tOPS+	sOPS+

WP >= .500	348	35	1374	1204	172	295	66	5	49	167	30	4	142	342	.245	.328	.430	.758	518	18	13	0	13	6	7	.298	94	121

WP >= .500	486	49	1815	1610	183	370	69	6	49	176	26	11	169	427	.230	.309	.371	.680	598	43	21	2	13	7	10	.280	85	99

WP >= .500	421	43	1583	1446	177	342	71	0	56	164	26	9	114	436	.237	.297	.402	.699	581	29	14	0	9	0	7	.297	85	103

WP >= .500	452	44	1652	1492	170	332	71	3	33	163	12	7	130	403	.223	.288	.341	.629	508	18	13	5	12	6	17	.280	80	84

WP >= .500	498	48	1781	1579	204	376	76	11	40	195	12	6	144	391	.238	.313	.376	.689	594	35	35	8	15	6	13	.289	89	102

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think the offense is assumed to be bad because the Brewers just don't currently have a silver slugger or two in their lineup.  They have a top 10 team OPS/SLG/OBP and are middle of the pack with batting average, 

They don't generate a ton of hits, and when they do the hits are skewed more between HRs and singles - for a team with a top 10 slugging percentage they don't hit many doubles that often create scoring opportunities, stress defenses by limiting shifting, and/or clear the basepaths and score runs themselves.

The concern for me is that this good, not great, offense relative to the rest of MLB doesn't have any carry-the-team bats, and is once again going to struggle to score runs against quality pitching in the postseason.  Essentially the same song and dance as last year.  So I get the front office's stance indicating there just wasn't that guy available at the deadline this year - exception being Soto, who they probably viewed as not being worth trying to empty the farm to acquire....I for one at least hope they tried and had a significant offer on the table even if the Nats valued the prospect haul the Padres offered more.

[nate82]

Going back to the 2019 offseason there have been some posters on here who were adamant if the Brewers didn't sign some key free agents that they would be absolutely horrible lets review these free agents.

2019 free agents that a few posters said the Brewers had to sign or they are not serious about competing 3B Anthony Rendon.  

Rendon:

Season	Team	Level	wRC	wRC+	WPA	-WPA	+WPA	RAR	WAR	Pos	BB	SO	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP
2020	LAA	MLB	44	153	0.94	-4.17	5.1	25.4	2.5	0.8	38	31	0.418	0.497	0.915	0.302
2021	LAA	MLB	29	95	-0.57	-4.46	3.89	1.9	0.2	0.7	29	41	0.329	0.382	0.712	0.267
2022	LAA	MLB	22	104	0.58	-3.08	3.65	8.4	0.9	0.7	23	32	0.324	0.383	0.707	0.252

2021 free agents that a few posters said the Brewers had to sign or they are not serious about competing OF/DH Nick Castellanos

Season	Team	Level	wRC	wRC+	WPA	-WPA	+WPA	RAR	WAR	Pos	BB	SO	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP
2022	PHI	MLB	47	91	-0.9	-7.91	7.01	-11.1	-1.2	-5.2	24	103	0.302	0.385	0.687	0.321

If the Brewers signed either of these players the offense production would be worse than what the Brewers currently already have.  Rendon is looking like an absolute disaster for the Angels as he can't stay healthy and Castellanos looks like he is on a severe decline.  In fact some of the posters favorite hating on in McCutchen is about equal to Rendon and is outperforming Castellanos.  All at a lower cost in terms of years and money.  

If the Brewers would have added Castellanos instead of Renfroe and McCutchen this off season this team would be at a lower win total than it is now.  Castellanos probably would have caused a fire sale at the deadline of Burnes, Woodruff, Hader and others.  I am not sure if that would have been good or bad.

McCutchen's season so far:

Season	Team	Level	wRC	wRC+	WPA	-WPA	+WPA	RAR	WAR	Pos	BB	SO	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP
2022	MIL	MLB	49	102	0.04	-7.39	7.43	2.9	0.3	-7.5	37	74	0.324	0.397	0.721	0.287

There is also evidence that Castellanos looks like his going to regress even more.  The Phillies may have a .700 OPS max player on their hands going forward in Castellanos.  It would have been better for them to resign McCutchen to a one or two year deal than it was signing Castellanos.  

Lesson learned stop looking at big names in free agency and determining that is what will make a team better.  The Angels haven't improved their team by adding the popular top free agents in Pujols, Rendon and others over the last 5+ years.  The Phillies have also been doing the same and have yet to even make it work.  Free agency is a trap in MLB and you hardly ever get the value out of signing the top free agents.  The best value is actually in the middle where you are only doing one to three year deals anything more than three years is just setting yourself up for failure.  

Another bad idea is extending players past the age of thirty.  Once a player gets closer to thirty small market teams shouldn't even think about extending the player it just ends in disaster like signing the top free agents.  Case in point is the Yelich extension.  The Brewers never should have done this in hindsight.  Even if Yelich would be at MVP level Yelich it would have been better to just let him walk after his first contract was over with.  It is better to just keep on rotating players in and out and then letting them leave once they hit the age of thirty.  I don't really care about players playing their whole career for the Brewers.  I just don't care and it is something dumb and stupid that fans like to hold onto even if it means that player is taking up a huge amount of the payroll and sucks for the last years of their contract.

[Never Outhustled]

9 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Going back to the 2019 offseason there have been some posters on here who were adamant if the Brewers didn't sign some key free agents that they would be absolutely horrible lets review these free agents.

2019 free agents that a few posters said the Brewers had to sign or they are not serious about competing 3B Anthony Rendon.  

Rendon:

 

Season	Team	Level	wRC	wRC+	WPA	-WPA	+WPA	RAR	WAR	Pos	BB	SO	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP
2020	LAA	MLB	44	153	0.94	-4.17	5.1	25.4	2.5	0.8	38	31	0.418	0.497	0.915	0.302
2021	LAA	MLB	29	95	-0.57	-4.46	3.89	1.9	0.2	0.7	29	41	0.329	0.382	0.712	0.267
2022	LAA	MLB	22	104	0.58	-3.08	3.65	8.4	0.9	0.7	23	32	0.324	0.383	0.707	0.252

2021 free agents that a few posters said the Brewers had to sign or they are not serious about competing OF/DH Nick Castellanos

 

 

Season	Team	Level	wRC	wRC+	WPA	-WPA	+WPA	RAR	WAR	Pos	BB	SO	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP
2022	PHI	MLB	47	91	-0.9	-7.91	7.01	-11.1	-1.2	-5.2	24	103	0.302	0.385	0.687	0.321

If the Brewers signed either of these players the offense production would be worse than what the Brewers currently already have.  Rendon is looking like an absolute disaster for the Angels as he can't stay healthy and Castellanos looks like he is on a severe decline.  In fact some of the posters favorite hating on in McCutchen is about equal to Rendon and is outperforming Castellanos.  All at a lower cost in terms of years and money.  

If the Brewers would have added Castellanos instead of Renfroe and McCutchen this off season this team would be at a lower win total than it is now.  Castellanos probably would have caused a fire sale at the deadline of Burnes, Woodruff, Hader and others.  I am not sure if that would have been good or bad.

McCutchen's season so far:

 

Season	Team	Level	wRC	wRC+	WPA	-WPA	+WPA	RAR	WAR	Pos	BB	SO	OBP	SLG	OPS	BABIP
2022	MIL	MLB	49	102	0.04	-7.39	7.43	2.9	0.3	-7.5	37	74	0.324	0.397	0.721	0.287

There is also evidence that Castellanos looks like his going to regress even more.  The Phillies may have a .700 OPS max player on their hands going forward in Castellanos.  It would have been better for them to resign McCutchen to a one or two year deal than it was signing Castellanos.  

Lesson learned stop looking at big names in free agency and determining that is what will make a team better.  The Angels haven't improved their team by adding the popular top free agents in Pujols, Rendon and others over the last 5+ years.  The Phillies have also been doing the same and have yet to even make it work.  Free agency is a trap in MLB and you hardly ever get the value out of signing the top free agents.  The best value is actually in the middle where you are only doing one to three year deals anything more than three years is just setting yourself up for failure.  

Another bad idea is extending players past the age of thirty.  Once a player gets closer to thirty small market teams shouldn't even think about extending the player it just ends in disaster like signing the top free agents.  Case in point is the Yelich extension.  The Brewers never should have done this in hindsight.  Even if Yelich would be at MVP level Yelich it would have been better to just let him walk after his first contract was over with.  It is better to just keep on rotating players in and out and then letting them leave once they hit the age of thirty.  I don't really care about players playing their whole career for the Brewers.  I just don't care and it is something dumb and stupid that fans like to hold onto even if it means that player is taking up a huge amount of the payroll and sucks for the last years of their contract.

The Brewers also would have been better off if the Phillies resigned McCutchen, as we have a clearly superior hitter sitting on our bench.