Brewers Acquire Jesse Winker and Abraham Toro from Mariners for Wong

[Joseph Zarr]

1 hour ago, DoubleSwitch said:

Again this is a rose tinted view. Garrett Mitchell is a lock defensively and Chourio and Frelick are more fringy according to every neutral prospect evaluation I've seen.

People also need to accept that Frelicks lack of power is a concern. Big league defenses are better and you can't slap singles and run out grounders like you can in the minors. Frelick propped up his average with that. I think he's a nice prospect, but he's no sure thing.

I'll chime in:

I am completely unconcerned by Frelick's 'lack of power'. What he displayed from essentially the moment he returned from the Il in Biloxi is he makes ridiculously good contact. That will play as a lead-off at any level. And that is who he is: a true lead-off hitter. Rick Sweet spoke to this glowingly when he was with Nashville.

I agree with you on the defensive commentary. The clear most talented defensive outfielders in the upper echelon of the Brewers farm are Mitchell and Wiemer. Due to his range and versatility, I'd go Frelick next. I'd personally place Chourio on a tier with Esteury Ruiz - the Gold Glove just didn't make sense to me given what I saw in 2022 (tho, admittedly, I place an decent emphasis on arm strength and accuracy and Chourio's arm is sinply average at best).

[Robocaller]

As far as value for value, I don't have any problem with this trade.

Except we acquired the wrong players.

Winker bats from the wrong side. I know he did OK vs. LHP last year, but that was an aberration, based on the rest of his career. He's a reasonable bounce-back candidate.

Toro is a switch hitter and can play 2b and 3b, which suggests versatility, but his terrible hitting means he's not a platoon candidate with any of our existing players. He did great in AA in 2019, and probably was promoted too soon. So there is hope for him becoming a quality ML player.

Since we're sending back 1.75M, there isn't even any cost savings; rather, our salary obligations have increased by the amount of Toro's salary.

 

 

[SRB]

I really like this trade, though not sure how you can carry both Winker and Hiura on the roster unless they are planning to regularly start Winker in the field. Hiura trade imminent?

[Robocaller]

7 minutes ago, SRB said:

I really like this trade, though not sure how you can carry both Winker and Hiura on the roster unless they are planning to regularly start Winker in the field. Hiura trade imminent?

I think they'd trade him for anything at this point.

[Brewcrew82]

2 hours ago, Lajitas said:

Prepare to be blasted by not anointing Frelick as the ROY next season.

Except for the small fact that literally no one has done that...

 

 

[patrickgpe]

24 minutes ago, SRB said:

I really like this trade, though not sure how you can carry both Winker and Hiura on the roster unless they are planning to regularly start Winker in the field. Hiura trade imminent?

I agree, don’t see a spot for him.

[Brewcrew82]

2 hours ago, DoubleSwitch said:

Again this is a rose tinted view. Garrett Mitchell is a lock defensively and Chourio and Frelick are more fringy according to every neutral prospect evaluation I've seen.

People also need to accept that Frelicks lack of power is a concern. Big league defenses are better and you can't slap singles and run out grounders like you can in the minors. Frelick propped up his average with that. I think he's a nice prospect, but he's no sure thing.

"Rose tinted view"??? Literally all of the "neutral" prospect evaluators (BA, MLB Pipeline, etc.) have Chourio as a 60-grade defender (same as Mitchell) and Frelick as a 55-grade defender. I will give you that I think Mitchell is the best of them all at this stage, but the OF defense would still be really good with Mitchell in RF and Frelick in CF. They've proven themselves to be virtually interchangeable in AAA. 

If you're concerned about Frelick's lack of power, then what about Mitchell? Mitchell's minor league SLG % is more than 50 points lower than Frelick's, and that ain't changing without a complete swing adjustment...

[titletownking]

2 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

I think the team is better and has $10MM more to work with than they did.

It's only December 2.

 

I think you could say you expect them to be better just due to bounce back candidates but I don’t know how you could emphatically say the team is better right now. They’ve lost two starters, two of their best, and replaced them with a really good DH’er. Winker could be really really good. But they aren’t better. 

[patrickgpe]

@StearnsFTWthey don’t have 10MM more to work with. Winkler makes 8. They have the mariners 1.75 million and they took on Toro. Trade is a wash. They feel like Turang is ready to play 2nd. They replaced Cutch with Winkler and got a new utility guy. It was just a baseball trade and not a cost cutting move. 

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, patrickgpe said:

@StearnsFTWthey don’t have 10MM more to work with. Winkler makes 8. They have the mariners 1.75 million and they took on Toro. Trade is a wash. They feel like Turang is ready to play 2nd. They replaced Cutch with Winkler and got a new utility guy. It was just a baseball trade and not a cost cutting move. 

I believe he was referring to the Renfroe savings. 

[patrickgpe]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

I believe he was referring to the Renfroe savings. 

Ok thanks for clarifying, that is true, but I think it’s 11.5 million. 

[Outlander]

55 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

 

Winker bats from the wrong side. I know he did OK vs. LHP last year, but that was an aberration, based on the rest of his career. He's a reasonable bounce-back candidate.

 

 

No, they actually learned from last year when they had the right handed McCutchen as.the full time DH. 

 

[DR28]

Toro will be alright.

[Matt Breen]

3 hours ago, wallus said:

Yes, catcher is definitely a question mark yet. I wonder if they could turn one of their outfield prospects into a catcher? Not a huge Caratini fan but it would be nice to have someone younger to pair with him.

Also, you don't think Keston will be on the team?

I'm guessing Keston is gone. He really needs a change of scenery or something. But I wouldn't count on him figuring things out after so many years. His bat is interesting - but the results just aren't there. And the defensive liabilities are enormous. Time to just move on.

[jay87shot]

I am OK with this trade but I am a little conflicted. If Winker rebounds this can be good trade but unless Toro becomes a starter which is highly unlikely there really is no great trade or we robbed them route. The part that worries me is the reports that Winker isn't a hard worker and didn't work on improving his game last year. 

It should be an upgrade at DH but almost assuredly a down grade at Utl. On top of it we don't save any money.

 

[folly412]

Ok trade.  The money used to pick up the Wong option and turn it into Winker to acquire a DH is better than bringing in another McCutchen type overpriced free agent.  Toro is depth with low risk.  Door now officially opened for Turang.  Still, not a big, necessary move, so interesting that they're noting the possibility that Winker could be flipped.

[DR28]

1 minute ago, folly412 said:

Ok trade.  The money used to pick up the Wong option and turn it into Winker to acquire a DH is better than bringing in another McCutchen type overpriced free agent.  Toro is depth with low risk.  Door now officially opened for Turang.  Still, not a big, necessary move, so interesting that they're noting the possibility that Winker could be flipped.

Who’s saying Winker could be flipped?

[jay87shot]

I doubt Winker gets flipped unless you count the trade deadline during the season.

[igor67]

I'm now seeing a clear path for 3 different positions to have noticeable defensive upgrades next year which is pretty big. Compared to other ideas that have been floated Winker is among the better gambles to give actual middle of the order production with a downside that is at least serviceable is most cases. I would agree that Huira seems like he has to be gone at this point since your better DH options if Winker craters are more likely to involve giving Yelich more time at DH and trying another OFer.

[StearnsFTW]

58 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

@StearnsFTWthey don’t have 10MM more to work with. Winkler makes 8. They have the mariners 1.75 million and they took on Toro. Trade is a wash. They feel like Turang is ready to play 2nd. They replaced Cutch with Winkler and got a new utility guy. It was just a baseball trade and not a cost cutting move. 

Again, I was speaking to the offseason as a whole.

 

$10MM from Renfroe.

[StearnsFTW]

1 hour ago, titletownking said:

I think you could say you expect them to be better just due to bounce back candidates but I don’t know how you could emphatically say the team is better right now. They’ve lost two starters, two of their best, and replaced them with a really good DH’er. Winker could be really really good. But they aren’t better. 

Ok.

 

Clearly I disagree.

[Brewcrew82]

We've all been screaming about our lack of high-level hitters. Here's the company Winker was in against RHP from 2017-2021...

[JefferyLeonard]

Oh look, it's another Brewers trade that utilizes their favorite strategy...Hope. using such a solid strategy like that for as many years as they have, it's really quite shocking they haven't been to another world series during that time. 

[Lajitas]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Except for the small fact that literally no one has done that...

 

 

 Except for the giant fact that YOU did that.  And I quote "FWIW, he'll have to be on the opening day roster if they want the possibility of gaining that extra draft pick from the ROY vote. "

That's YOU on Frelick.  Of course, now you'll come back with some BS about how that's not what you meant.  Dancing better than the love child of Fred Astaire and Michael Jackson.

[Brewcrew82]

14 minutes ago, Lajitas said:

 Except for the giant fact that YOU did that.  And I quote "FWIW, he'll have to be on the opening day roster if they want the possibility of gaining that extra draft pick from the ROY vote. "

That's YOU on Frelick.  Of course, now you'll come back with some BS about how that's not what you meant.  Dancing better than the love child of Fred Astaire and Michael Jackson.

Settle down there, guy. I know you feel like a big shot with your 47 whole posts, but if you actually bother to do some reading, you'll notice the word "possibility" in that quote. Nowhere did I flat out say or predict Frelick is GOING to be the Rookie of the Year. I think there's stronger candidates, like Corbin Carroll or Jordan Walker. Merely that it's a realistic possibility that would incentivize the Brewers to have him on the opening day roster, which is far from a stretch considering he's a top 50 prospect in the game and has a highly developed hit tool. And he would only have to finish in the top 3 of the vote...But you keep making crap up and I'm sure that'll get you far here.