2023 Packers draft discussion

[LouisEly]

38 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

I’d draft him. Not like this type of stuff doesn’t fit in with what loads of guys do every year in the NFL. Probably wouldn’t even get suspended.

Loads of guys in the NFL are involved in racing accidents that get people killed?

[MrTPlush]

31 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

Loads of guys in the NFL are involved in racing accidents that get people killed?

Loads of guys make incredibly dumb and illegal decisions…many of which actually hurt people (directly themselves) and intentionally hurt them to boot. That was the point. Not that other guys are also involved in speed racing in Athens, Georgia the day after a championship parade with a 2021 ford expedition involved at 2am with a full moon reflecting off the windows onto the sidewalk. 
 

He directly wasn’t the one that killed anyone and didn’t have a .20 BAC while killing them. How much should he be responsible for someone else’s epically dumb decision? 
 

A team is rolling the dice drafting him, sure, but NFL rosters aren’t short on guys with criminal records…many of which include charges much worse than reckless driving and leaving the scene of an accident. 

[True Blue Brew Crew]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:30 PM, LouisEly said:

 

• Kincaid - depends on what he measures (and runs).  He's listed at 6'4", 240, but I don't see that size on film.  If he comes in under that he will need to run sub-4.6 to get drafted in the top two rounds.  I saw a couple of their games and I believe in the Pac-10 championship game he had a horrible drop in the end zone that would have been a TD.  Everyone has drops, but he was wide open facing the QB with a chest-high pass.  Easiest pass you're going to get.  I'm not a fan. 

This has bothered me ever since I read it, finally I tracked this down. If we eliminate every player based on their worst moment, there probably wouldn't be anyone left to draft.

 

 

[LouisEly]

17 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Loads of guys make incredibly dumb and illegal decisions…many of which actually hurt people (directly themselves) and intentionally hurt them to boot.

You're seriously comparing "hurt" to an incident where someone got killed?

1) Name them (the last NFL player I can recall who drove at a high rate of speed killed someone and has been in jail ever since)

B) How many of them aren't either in jail, kicked out of the league, suspended for a significant period of time, or were released?

3) How do you know that Carter didn't instigate it?  How do you know that Carter isn't the one who challenged the other vehicle to a race?  What if he did? It takes two to tango, and if Carter doesn't race them do they race themselves?  Highly unlikely.

Also, while Carter was "at the scene", he allegedly left the scene before police/emergency personnel arrived and came back two hours later.  He also changed his story; he first told police that he heard the crash from a nearby apartment complex, but then later told an officer he had been driving both behind and beside the SUV.  Not sure how leaving the scene isn't a crime.

[Oxy]

18 hours ago, LouisEly said:

Loads of guys in the NFL are involved in racing accidents that get people killed?

Most of the time nobody gets hurt and there isn't even an accident...this time there was.

[MrTPlush]

39 minutes ago, LouisEly said:

You're seriously comparing "hurt" to an incident where someone got killed?

1) Name them (the last NFL player I can recall who drove at a high rate of speed killed someone and has been in jail ever since)

B) How many of them aren't either in jail, kicked out of the league, suspended for a significant period of time, or were released?

3) How do you know that Carter didn't instigate it?  How do you know that Carter isn't the one who challenged the other vehicle to a race?  What if he did? It takes two to tango, and if Carter doesn't race them do they race themselves?  Highly unlikely.

Also, while Carter was "at the scene", he allegedly left the scene before police/emergency personnel arrived and came back two hours later.  He also changed his story; he first told police that he heard the crash from a nearby apartment complex, but then later told an officer he had been driving both behind and beside the SUV.  Not sure how leaving the scene isn't a crime.

I’m not comparing it specifically to driving a car and hurting people. Simply that rosters are full of guys with criminal records playing in the league. Many of which have domestic violence and stuff like that. Also, he didn’t kill anyone. He was not behind the wheel, he didn’t hit the other driver off the road. The other vehicle crashed due to the poor driving decisions and extreme level intoxication of the other driver. 
 

If street racing another car left you subject to being responsible for the lives in the other vehicle I’m sure he would have gotten charged with it. Instead he got what he did, reckless driving and street racing. 
 

Also, I never said he didn’t commit a crime, I don’t know where you got that notion. Dude is an idiot, no doubt.

[PeaveyFury]

Safety class as a whole were kind of underwhelming at the combine for 40 times. Interested to see how that alters projections for the class.

[MrTPlush]

Getting drafted by the Packers has to be this guys absolute worst nightmare.
 

 

 

[GAME05]

Makes me think there's an episode of "Adrian Monk plays in the NFL" which was sorely missing from the series.

I presume at some point during camp one of his teammates is going to shove milk at him just to see how he reacts.

[young guns]

1 hour ago, GAME05 said:

Makes me think there's an episode of "Adrian Monk plays in the NFL" which was sorely missing from the series.

I presume at some point during camp one of his teammates is going to shove milk at him just to see how he reacts.

Are opposing sidelines going to have milk jugs?  Fans with pictures of milk on their signs?

[wallus]

Deathly afraid of milk? Off my draft board.

[GAME05]

Nah, it'd be like drafting Zach Greinke. Fans would love him. Sit him down with your PR lady and work out how to make his personality seem quirky and weird to the fans.

Though it's seeming like he'll be the last of the tier-1 QBs taken. Apparently the guy from Florida looked great, so it'll be curious what teams think of such a high ceiling but also needing to sit maybe two seasons.

[CheezWizHed]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:19 AM, PeaveyFury said:

Safety class as a whole were kind of underwhelming at the combine for 40 times. Interested to see how that alters projections for the class.

Especially for a safety, I'd temper the 40 yard dash with his instincts and game speed.  Savage ran 4.36 and Ford ran 4.39.  Yet, Ford's game speed looks much faster than Savage's. 

[nate82]

Is a 40-yard dash even useful information?  Yes someone can run a really fast 40-yard dash but that is without being fully equipped with pads and a helmet and is usually on a surface that is easier to get a grip and run as fast as possible.  I would think game speed would be more important than a 40 time. 

[PeaveyFury]

57 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

Especially for a safety, I'd temper the 40 yard dash with his instincts and game speed.  Savage ran 4.36 and Ford ran 4.39.  Yet, Ford's game speed looks much faster than Savage's. 

Though your overall point is fair, the difference between 4.36 and 4.39 isn't overly significant, IMO. But the difference between 4.36 and Branch's 4.58 is pretty stark.

To also answer Nate's question, I think 40 time is relevant as part of the overall concept of RAS, which the Packers seem to value quite high. You have a guy like Branch that has been linked to Green Bay in mocks, but some note that he may be best to rotate to slot in nickel coverage. At 4.58, you worry about him getting torched by speedier slot guys in that role.

Also, the overall point is that there are a lot of bodies at safety, but mostly jumbled in the 2/3/4th round range. No one seemed to elevate themselves above the rest of that grouping at the combine. Essentially, these guys already had something pushing them down a bit, and then compounded it by not really running that fast.

[CheezWizHed]

35 minutes ago, PeaveyFury said:

Though your overall point is fair, the difference between 4.36 and 4.39 isn't overly significant, IMO. But the difference between 4.36 and Branch's 4.58 is pretty stark.

If you are running a race, yes. But when you watch Ford and Savage play, one looks significantly faster than the other, despite very close 40 yard dash times. 

Sure, Branch's 4.58 might make me pause and look deeper at his play speed, but it in a game a player's speed doesn't always align to his dash time. I'd imagine he is still a mid-first round pick. 

Honestly, I think the 2nd-4th round safety bunch is more interesting to me anyway. I'd rather see a CB, OLB, or TE in the first round. A CB would let them move Douglas to safety.  

Van Ness' cone and shuttle times (another position were a 40 yard dash means little) have me interested.  He and Gary could be giving people fits for a long time. 

[PeaveyFury]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

If you are running a race, yes. But when you watch Ford and Savage play, one looks significantly faster than the other, despite very close 40 yard dash times. 

Sure, Branch's 4.58 might make me pause and look deeper at his play speed, but it in a game a player's speed doesn't always align to his dash time. I'd imagine he is still a mid-first round pick. 

Honestly, I think the 2nd-4th round safety bunch is more interesting to me anyway. I'd rather see a CB, OLB, or TE in the first round. A CB would let them move Douglas to safety.  

Van Ness' cone and shuttle times (another position were a 40 yard dash means little) have me interested.  He and Gary could be giving people fits for a long time. 

I can't disagree with any of this, including the Van Ness comments, as he's quickly becoming an interesting (and very possible) option at 15.

To finish the though on the safeties, though, I do think that there's a jumble of those 2-3 round guys and none of them really distinguished themselves to make themselves the clear guy to go in that range or move up, which is opposed to the TE class where most of them showed exceptionally well at the combine.

[Matt Breen]

5 hours ago, PeaveyFury said:

I can't disagree with any of this, including the Van Ness comments, as he's quickly becoming an interesting (and very possible) option at 15.

To finish the though on the safeties, though, I do think that there's a jumble of those 2-3 round guys and none of them really distinguished themselves to make themselves the clear guy to go in that range or move up, which is opposed to the TE class where most of them showed exceptionally well at the combine.

Van Ness is opening a lot of eyes. Could easily be our pick.

WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba supposedly looked great (he missed most of 2022 with a hammy injury). I read he looked great on all the agility drills and so forth. He'd be a perfect slot guy for the club. 

[Matt Breen]

Dane Brugler of the Athletic had Branch coming to the Packers with the 15th pick. He said that many will be will be hung up on his 4.58 40 time, but notes he was outstanding during positional drills. And he had 'stellar' meetings. One of the teams he met with was the Packers. Brugler also notes that his versatility would be a great fit in Green Bay’s scheme.
 

[homer]

Ed Reed ran a 4.57 😀

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'd rather have a safety with a 4.5-4.7 40 time who has great ball skills and the ability to blow up a play based on his football instincts and aggressive decision making than a safety who gets to show off his 4.3-4.4 speed constantly chasing down pass catchers after blowing coverage assignments/missing tackles or running backs after filling the wrong hole.

You can be an elite safety in today's NFL without having world class speed - especially on a team with cornerbacks who can run. 

[GAME05]

I recognize the need for a safety but don't understand the desire for one in the 1st. It's the offense that's the bigger issue. Either Rodgers needs another playmaker for a last SB run or Love needs another receiver to develop with him. Safety just seems like a 2nd or even 3rd round issue.

[LouisEly]

Safety and LB are two positions where if a player has excellent instincts and can quickly read and diagnose plays he will make up that speed by being in position and already being 2-3 steps toward where he needs to be before other guys figure that out.

[homer]

Sounds like Zeke Elliott's days are numbered in Dallas. You just know McCarthy is champing at the bit to trade up for Bijan. I wonder what they'd give up for #15? Dallas is #26. 

[Oxy]

I'd love to trade #15 for #26 and #58.  Particularly if we get #13 from the Jets.