Is Brice Turang a Major League Hitter? How concerned are you?

[Brewcrew82]

Right now, obviously not. But I'm becoming increasingly concerned about him in the future, too. He's never been a loud contact guy, but in the minors he was at least able to hang his hat on the fact that he did make frequent contact and that he was able to draw walks. He's got none of the three going for him so far in his MLB career, which leads to a wRC+ of 59 and one of the worst hitters in baseball.

Unless he makes some changes and starts to make contact/draw walks with experience, I think there's a very real possibility that he will become yet another Brewers' first round bust. 

[pitchleague]

He's the Jim Gantner on this club, except for Bryce has excellent defense as opposed to average (maybe above average?) defense.

I still enjoy seeing him play ball.  Maybe he'll improve next year.  And maybe not.  I'm willing to give the kid some time.

I don't think anybody thought he would be a top notch, can't miss hitter when he was drafted, or am I incorrect?

[adambr2]

He's got a Craig Counsell type ceiling. Might be able to skate through and have a long MLB career on the strength of defense and positional versatility. I'm not concerned because my expectations weren't very high.

Just one of those 1st round picks that never really lived up to the billing, while also not being a bust, because hey he did make it here. But is he ever going to be a core player, no he is not. 

[Brewcrew82]

7 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

He's got a Craig Counsell type ceiling. Might be able to skate through and have a long MLB career on the strength of defense and positional versatility. I'm not concerned because my expectations weren't very high.

Just one of those 1st round picks that never really lived up to the billing, while also not being a bust, because hey he did make it here. But is he ever going to be a core player, no he is not. 

Yeah. A lot of people are assuming we can just go ahead and trade Adames in the offseason and install Turang at SS and not skip a beat. I don't see that at all. At this point, I'm not sure if Turang can be a starting SS on a contending team, unless you have multiple elite bats at other positions (which we don't right now). 

[Jim French Stepstool]

I still believe he's going to be more than a good enough hitter to justify having him on the field when you factor in the glove, the speed, the baserunning. Considering his career path when moving from one level to the next, I strongly feel that labeling him at this point is premature.

[Brewcrew82]

6 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I still believe he's going to be more than a good enough hitter to justify having him on the field when you factor in the glove, the speed, the baserunning. Considering his career path when moving from one level to the next, I strongly feel that labeling him at this point is premature.

Oh, I'm by no means labeling him or writing him off at this point. It would be pretty silly to do so considering he's only a rookie. But I'm seeing some pretty ominous warning signs from him at the major league level that have me beginning to question whether he will ever be able to hit enough to be more than a replacement level player. 

[phnxcrew]

He might want to eliminate the 18 inch step into his swinging motion like adames.  whoever teaches that crap needs to go 

[jay87shot]

40 minutes ago, phnxcrew said:

He might want to eliminate the 18 inch step into his swinging motion like adames.  whoever teaches that crap needs to go 

Agreed, between that, the Weimer bat flick, and the Urias lean back there is obviously a gap in teaching better swing mechanics.

It seems like it took Turang a while to adjust to each level when he went through the minors. Hopefully it is just taking a bit longer in the bigs. We definitely need a different everyday 2B the rest of the way (or 3B and Montaserio plays 2B).

[rickh150]

For this year, we all better be concerned about his bat. His glove has been way more than advertised, thankfully, and that is what is saving him. I hope we get Urias right and have some sort of time share there.

[Jopal78]

The Ken Rosenthal types questioned whether he would hit in the majors. His minor league stat sheet isn’t impressive. Whether someone is concerned or not depends on where the expectations are, it should not come as a total shock he can’t hit. 
 

I don’t know if a Gantner comparison is apt as he was an ok hitter as a young man, then racked up a huge number of PAs in his mid to late 30s with poor results. Ganter’s final season at 39 is on par with what Turang’s doing.

When Anderson is again healthy Turang’s at bats likely dry up with Monasterio moving over to 2nd. If Urias could get it going Turnag would probably lose his roster spot. 

[duewizard]

I think his floor is a pinch-defender type of guy. The guy you bring in as a defensive sub in the bottom of the 8th leading by one and you need good defence,

No idea what the ceiling might be, but at most it might just be a semi-competent bat to go with his amazing glove.

[Harold Hutchison]

Turang's OBP skills seem to have resurfaced in the last two weeks (6 walks to 7 strikeouts), which is on par with how things went with mid-season promotions. He would walk a lot, struggle on the BA side, but the next year, whether promoted or repeating, he suddenly hits more than adequately.

Going forward in 2023, I expect lots of walks, a batting average around the Uecker line, and excellent defense. Next year, I can see him taking the batting average up about 60 points, with some more doubles and triples. Think Omar Vizquel from 1996-2004, but with better OBP skills, some more power, and stealing 30-35 bases a season.

[Jim French Stepstool]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Oh, I'm by no means labeling him or writing him off at this point. It would be pretty silly to do so considering he's only a rookie. 

No, you aren't. But there are some on here who seemed to want to do that, I was addressing that larger point.

[Brewcrew82]

5 minutes ago, clancyphile said:

Turang's OBP skills seem to have resurfaced in the last two weeks (6 walks to 7 strikeouts), which is on par with how things went with mid-season promotions. He would walk a lot, struggle on the BA side, but the next year, whether promoted or repeating, he suddenly hits more than adequately.

Going forward in 2023, I expect lots of walks, a batting average around the Uecker line, and excellent defense. Next year, I can see him taking the batting average up about 60 points, with some more doubles and triples. Think Omar Vizquel from 1996-2004, but with better OBP skills, some more power, and stealing 30-35 bases a season.

I see little basis for a 60 point jump in BA right now. 

[BrewerFan]

52 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t know if a Gantner comparison is apt as he was an ok hitter as a young man, then racked up a huge number of PAs in his mid to late 30s with poor results. Ganter’s final season at 39 is on par with what Turang’s doing.

Or his first three seasons(age 23-25) where he put together a 67 OPS+

Turang is 23 and has always taken a while to adjust. Not sure why you'd use Gantner's last year to compare when...his early years are much more comparable.

Turang will be fine...and he SHOULD be surrounded by elite hitters moving forward. Yelich, Chourio, Wiemer, Black, Frelick, Contreras...I expect his MLB numbers to match his AAA numbers from last year in the next couple years as he gets more comfortable.

 

[BrewerFan]

10 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

No, you aren't. But there are some on here who seemed to want to do that, I was addressing that larger point.

There are definitely people already writing him off. Then again, some were writing Chourio off a few weeks ago(and at least one still is).

[Harold Hutchison]

3 hours ago, pitchleague said:

He's the Jim Gantner on this club, except for Bryce has excellent defense as opposed to average (maybe above average?) defense.

I still enjoy seeing him play ball.  Maybe he'll improve next year.  And maybe not.  I'm willing to give the kid some time.

I don't think anybody thought he would be a top notch, can't miss hitter when he was drafted, or am I incorrect?

Turang is better than Gantner on two fronts: He's got speed and can steal bases, and his OBP skills have been much better. Think Omar Vizquel with better OBP skills and slightly more pop.

[Jim French Stepstool]

15 minutes ago, BrewerFan said:

 

I expect his MLB numbers to match his AAA numbers from last year in the next couple years as he gets more comfortable.

 

With the other things he brings to the table, I'd be thrilled with that. Not saying it can't happen. But if he hits two-eighty- something up here with almost 80 RBI, takes his walks & only gets thrown out twice all year stealing along with fielding his position the way he does, he's probably an all-star.

 

[Jopal78]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

Or his first three seasons(age 23-25) where he put together a 67 OPS+

Turang is 23 and has always taken a while to adjust. Not sure why you'd use Gantner's last year to compare when...his early years are much more comparable.

Turang will be fine...and he SHOULD be surrounded by elite hitters moving forward. Yelich, Chourio, Wiemer, Black, Frelick, Contreras...I expect his MLB numbers to match his AAA numbers from last year in the next couple years as he gets more comfortable.

 

First of all, Ganter’s first three years in the majors he came off the bench, Turang has been a starter so the early years are actually not comparable at all either. I cited to Ganter’s last year in the majors to show how poorly Turang has played. That a washed up 39 year old Gantner never known for his bat, put up a similar  stat line, as Turang this year. 

If you want to compare the first time Gantner was a regular and got 200+PAs in a season (like this year with Turang), his slash line was .284/.336/.389. Then again, this isn’t even an apt comparison because the offensive side of the game has changed so much since Gantner played. 
 

Turang’s ability to hit will shape his career trajectory. Right now he’s rostered in the majors out of necessity, but with a sub .600 OPS and playing 2B, he probably doesn’t stick long term if the Brewers have alternatives for the keystone.

[Jake McKibbin]

1 minute ago, Jopal78 said:

First of all, Ganter’s first three years in the majors he came off the bench, Turang has been a starter so the early years are actually not comparable at all either. I cited to Ganter’s last year in the majors to show how poorly Turang has played. That a washed up 39 year old Gantner never known for his bat, put up a similar  stat line, as Turang this year. 

If you want to compare the first time Gantner was a regular and got 200+PAs in a season (like this year with Turang), his slash line was .284/.336/.389. Then again, isn’t even an apt comparison because the offensive side of the game has changed so much since Gantner played. 
 

His ability to hit will shape his career trajectory. Right now he’s rostered in the majors out of necessity, but with a sub .600 OPS and playing 2B, he probably doesn’t stick if they have alternatives for the keystone. 

He's looking better to my eye, although high fastballs are something he really seems to struggle with, but he's made adjustments all the way through his career and I think he will again. Seems to be squaring up pitches down in the zone more often recently which is a good sign, and his BB/K ratio is much better. I think he'll be a solid ish bat given playing time to adjust, but I don't think Triple A will be much more use to him

[patrickgpe]

Can we learn from the past before making judgements based on 4 months of play? We only have to go back to Arcia who was forced out of town only to be an all star for the braves. Not everyone develops at the same rate. I agree at some point you need to move on because you can’t have a black hole in the bottom of your lineup every day, but he has shown flashes of promise. 

[LouisEly]

Turang's strikeout % (24%) is slightly above league average K% (22.6%) and his BB% (8.7%) is right there at league average (8.9%) which is good for a rookie.   If those were a lot worse than league average I'd be more concerned.

He needs two things - more experience against major league pitching and to get on the Matt McLain forearm strengthening program.

[Jopal78]

12 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

Can we learn from the past before making judgements based on 4 months of play? We only have to go back to Arcia who was forced out of town only to be an all star for the braves. Not everyone develops at the same rate. I agree at some point you need to move on because you can’t have a black hole in the bottom of your lineup every day, but he has shown flashes of promise. 

… I think you’re still doing just that with the reference to Arcia. His BABiP is .330 that is better than Ohtani’s (.322), and that mark is 40 points over Arica’s career norm. Kudos to Arcia for an extended hot streak and having a career year, but I’d say odds are pretty good he’ll turn back into the pumpkin as reflected by the first 2100 PAs he got in the majors.

As for Turang, the Brewers certainly want to get something for their bonus money, but a sub .600 OPS won’t cut it for long in today’s major leagues, so the real question is how much rope he gets. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Not concerned with Turang at the plate at all...he wont ever hit 20HR annually, but he will improve his OBP and slg a bit better with time to more than justify starting him at shortstop and keeping his speed towards the bottom of the lineup.

Let him keep developing and don't part time role him alongside a slew of veteran journeyman infielders.

[Jake McKibbin]

Just now, Fear The Chorizo said:

Not concerned with Turang at the plate at all...he wont ever hit 20HR annually, but he will improve his OBP and slg a bit better with time to more than justify starting him at shortstop and keeping his speed towards the bottom of the lineup.

Let him keep developing and don't part time role him alongside a slew of veteran journeyman infielders.

I think one issue may potentially be that he's potentially not a great Shortstop in the bigs, -2 OAA in an admittedly very small sample size of 29 plays at the position.

He also has a BABIP of .251, which i'd expect to improve some, with his xBA at least .213 instead o.199, and a similar jump for his slugging percentage.

he absolutely roped a ball yesterday with two outs and two men on that would've been a double five yards either side, a screaming line drive straight at Fraley. So I think he's getting there, but certainly with regular time should be re-assessed in a month's time

His xSlg has jumped from .267 in June to .355 in July, so there's some progress there too in terms of the quality of contact he's making, but definitely needs to fill the swing and miss at the top of the zone