Robert Murray on Brewers and CC

[Brewcrew82]

 

[TURBO]

I'm predicting that MA opens up the purse strings, and keeps Counsell on board. 

I do not believe, not even for a second, that CC wants to coach anyplace other than Milwaukee.  Using other teams as leverage makes since monetarily, but I truly believe that his heart is with the Brewers. 

Him testing the waters to see what he is worth on the open market is all he is doing.

[rickh150]

1 hour ago, TURBO said:

I'm predicting that MA opens up the purse strings, and keeps Counsell on board. 

I do not believe, not even for a second, that CC wants to coach anyplace other than Milwaukee.  Using other teams as leverage makes since monetarily, but I truly believe that his heart is with the Brewers. 

Him testing the waters to see what he is worth on the open market is all he is doing.

I hope you are right, but I think he is gone.

Right now, he is still a feel good story. And overall, he is still thought of very favorably around the state. Yet, he knows 1-9 in playoff series is not good and he is close to being turned on by all if playoff clunkers continue. He also knows it is going to be much tougher even getting to playoffs over next couple years with Brewers and worse SP.

Leaving now allows him to go elsewhere for big bucks METS, get whatever resources and FA he wants, and chase WS yearly.  

Then, he  STILL would be welcomed back to manage Milwaukee years later. 

[brewmann04]

Totally agree this was the Crew best shot with these 3 Starters and never filled the team with enough hitters.

Now does CC want to go  with a younger club without possible 2/3 big arms?

then will Mark match or more to keep CC?

[Brewcrew82]

46 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

I hope you are right, but I think he is gone.

Right now, he is still a feel good story. And overall, he is still thought of very favorably around the state. Yet, he knows 1-9 in playoff series is not good and he is close to being turned on by all if playoff clunkers continue. He also knows it is going to be much tougher even getting to playoffs over next couple years with Brewers and worse SP.

Leaving now allows him to go elsewhere for big bucks METS, get whatever resources and FA he wants, and chase WS yearly.  

Then, he  STILL would be welcomed back to manage Milwaukee years later. 

Mets have a huge $ advantage over the Brewers for sure, but the Brewers are arguably starting in a better position organizationally with their young talent and top 3 farm system.

I think if Attanasio matches his other offers, CC comes back. There's no guarantee he'd ever get another chance to manage in Milwaukee, and I wouldn't assume his reputation wouldn't suffer if he left for the Mets. 

[CheezWizHed]

18 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Your concern should be Stearns doing that.

If Stearns wants those guys he will try to get them regardless of what CC does.

Clearly this is more about the GM than the HC.  But of the HC leaves, many or all of his staff will leave.  It might open the flood gates if people don't like the uncertainty of who may come.  

[jerichoholicninja]

Sorry, but I still don't see any reason CC would want any part of the Mets when he has so many better options available to him. Milwaukee, Cleveland, Houston are all in a better position to be competitive for the next few years. I don't know how anyone can think Cohen is just going to spend his way to a great team when that's what he's done the last two years and it's failed. That's exactly what the Padres have tried to do and it's gotten them pretty much nothing. Lots of teams have tried that and it's almost always a failure.

[MrTPlush]

2 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Clearly this is more about the GM than the HC.  But of the HC leaves, many or all of his staff will leave.  It might open the flood gates if people don't like the uncertainty of who may come.  

Maybe he takes Pat Murphy if he doesn't replace Counsell? That is really the only guy Counsell probably has much control over. The hitting coach and pitching coach aren't necessarily manager picks....and very well may have contracts that don't follow his. I don't think those coaches decide where to go based on who the manager is. 

[MrTPlush]

15 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Sorry, but I still don't see any reason CC would want any part of the Mets when he has so many better options available to him. Milwaukee, Cleveland, Houston are all in a better position to be competitive for the next few years. I don't know how anyone can think Cohen is just going to spend his way to a great team when that's what he's done the last two years and it's failed. That's exactly what the Padres have tried to do and it's gotten them pretty much nothing. Lots of teams have tried that and it's almost always a failure.

Maybe Counsell is just using them to drive up the price for the Brewers and afterwards a bunch of Brewers players are going to go on Twitter and be like, "LOL that those Met's fans thought Counsell would ever go to the dumpster fire Mets."

 

And finally, just finally, we have beat the large market at their own game and get to throw up the middle finger for once....Counsell truly doing the thing more impossible than winning a World Series. Bronze statue by opening day. 

 

[RobertCrawley]

12 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Maybe he takes Pat Murphy if he doesn't replace Counsell? That is really the only guy Counsell probably has much control over. The hitting coach and pitching coach aren't necessarily manager picks....and very well may have contracts that don't follow his. I don't think those coaches decide where to go based on who the manager is. 

I guess all that talk about CC wanting a year off to watch his sons play baseball was apparently not accurate.

They Mets can have the hitting coaches. Our pitching coach needs a hefty raise.

[MrTPlush]

8 minutes ago, RobertCrawley said:

I guess all that talk about CC wanting a year off to watch his sons play baseball was apparently not accurate.

They Mets can have the hitting coaches. Our pitching coach needs a hefty raise.

Meh. The hitting coach is working with a pile of shart and the pitching coach gets to sit back and watch ace after ace rotation or bullpen take the mound. 

Like the last time our pitching coach ditched, I doubt the world ends as we know it if the current one left. The pitching success if probably a bigger reflection of the guys in the minors, not the MLB guy. 

[CheezWizHed]

35 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Meh. The hitting coach is working with a pile of shart and the pitching coach gets to sit back and watch ace after ace rotation or bullpen take the mound. 

Like the last time our pitching coach ditched, I doubt the world ends as we know it if the current one left. The pitching success if probably a bigger reflection of the guys in the minors, not the MLB guy. 

The "pitching coach" is more than just a single person.  It is also the lab and network behind that singular person.  When Johnson left Hook was brought up from internal org who was part of all that.  Obviously, they don't share the responsibilities of each person in the org as part of the "pitching lab", but I'm pretty sure all the pitching coaches are involved with it. 

Thus my concern if CC leaves, Hook may leave... when you start pulling the string (whether others follow CC, Hook, or just find a new opportunity) how it impacts our pitching lab as a whole. 

Much of why we have "ace after ace" and a strong BP is because we have those coaches that are able to better shape pitches, form a better plan for how to use pitches, and focus on the effective pitches while eliminating the ineffective ones.  It has been very interesting for the last 5-6 years to watch the Brewers pick up pitchers and suddenly make them effective.  Megill is a great example of this in 2023. 

Less is said about how we develop bats, swings, etc... do we have a "hitting lab?" I have no idea.  But our hitting coaches certainly seem less effective at improving our hitters.  Or maybe their impact is simply less obvious?

[RobertCrawley]

56 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Meh. The hitting coach is working with a pile of shart and the pitching coach gets to sit back and watch ace after ace rotation or bullpen take the mound. 

Like the last time our pitching coach ditched, I doubt the world ends as we know it if the current one left. The pitching success if probably a bigger reflection of the guys in the minors, not the MLB guy. 

Consider this. How many pitchers have improved since joining the Brewers?

How many hitters have improved? How many hitters have gotten worse? How many hitters did better when they went to other teams?

[wiguy94]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:54 PM, True Blue Brew Crew said:

And apparently coaxing that kind of season out of Chase Anderson had nothing to do with Craig Counsell. Year after year, in-spite of either a weak cast of pitchers or a weak cast of hitters, but never both sides of the ball strong at the same time, the man somehow got 5 playoff appearances out of them. But no, Counsell is nothing special. Brewers magic got those results out of those players.

Why do fans continually try to give Counsell credit for stuff like Chase Anderson's success. Counsell isn't a pitching coach and doesn't handle pitcher development. His pitcher usage is not some incredibly advanced usage. Starters rarely see third time through the order and the best relievers aren't used when losing. That's something a vast majority of MLB teams do. 

[Axman59]

2 hours ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Sorry, but I still don't see any reason CC would want any part of the Mets when he has so many better options available to him. Milwaukee, Cleveland, Houston are all in a better position to be competitive for the next few years. I don't know how anyone can think Cohen is just going to spend his way to a great team when that's what he's done the last two years and it's failed. That's exactly what the Padres have tried to do and it's gotten them pretty much nothing. Lots of teams have tried that and it's almost always a failure.

The Mets have David Stearns now. Big difference.

When Andrew Friedman left the Rays for the Dodgers it very much concerned me. Someone as smart and efficient as Andrew Friedman now having a huge budget. It paid off big time for the Dodgers and now the Mets are in a similar position.

 

[jerichoholicninja]

1 hour ago, Axman59 said:

The Mets have David Stearns now. Big difference.

When Andrew Friedman left the Rays for the Dodgers it very much concerned me. Someone as smart and efficient as Andrew Friedman now having a huge budget. It paid off big time for the Dodgers and now the Mets are in a similar position.

 

Mets are still the 3rd best team in that division. No amount of spending is going to put them past the Braves any time soon. Maybe they pull even with the Phillies with some additions. If the Marlins could ever get out of their own way they've got a nice team developing too.

The Astros are world series contenders right now. There's nothing they need to do.

Cleveland is very much like Milwaukee in that their division sucks and they're a well above average team that should compete for a division title for the next few years.

There certainly are question marks about the Brewers going forward but without any other team in the division looking like they are ready to turn into a real contender, division titles are very much in play.

Maybe in 4 or 5 years Stearns can turn the Mets into a powerhouse but why wait around that long when you've got 3 other teams that want you and are ready to compete now.

[Axman59]

2 hours ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Maybe in 4 or 5 years Stearns can turn the Mets into a powerhouse but why wait around that long when you've got 3 other teams that want you and are ready to compete now.

Three things:

1) The challenge

2) Working with someone you already know and get along with

3) $$$

[SeaBass]

2 hours ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Maybe in 4 or 5 years Stearns can turn the Mets into a powerhouse but why wait around that long when you've got 3 other teams that want you and are ready to compete now.

Stearns was hired by the Brewers in late 2015 and had them in the NLCS in 2018. While I think he was ahead of the curve in roster building for that time he could still do it in under 4 or 5 years with the Mets. Yes the Braves and Phillies are good but there are more than enough playoff spots up for grabs.

[nate82]

2 hours ago, Axman59 said:

Three things:

1) The challenge

2) Working with someone you already know and get along with

3) $$$

1 the challenge to win in Milwaukee or Cleveland would be far greater than in NY.

2 he already knows Arnold and gets along with him.  So only a negative for Cleveland somewhat.

3 Cleveland has paid their managers well in the past.  Unknown for the Brewers on money but they are not shy on spending and extending their budget.  

[Axman59]

3 hours ago, nate82 said:

1 the challenge to win in Milwaukee or Cleveland would be far greater than in NY.

 

I've been told in this thread that Milwaukee and Cleveland have a much better organizational situation to win now vs. the Mets.

[torts]

World series over, CLOCKS TICKIN' CRAIGERS!!!

[torts]

I would wholely welcome an out-of-left-field change, like, CRAIGERS taking a change of scenery and coaching the raiders or something 

[Underachiever]

2 hours ago, torts said:

I would wholely welcome an out-of-left-field change, like, CRAIGERS taking a change of scenery and coaching the raiders or something 

Trade Davante to the Brewers. Chicks dig the long, I mean, deep ball.

[MVP2110]

Brewers will get an opportunity to match whatever Counsell's top offer is but he won't take a hometown discount. Counsell reportedly wants to be paid atleast $7 mil per year which $2 mil more than what the highest paid manager this past year 

 

 

 

[homer]

I think the Brewers would go for $7 million. If it gets up to $ 10 million I think he's gone.