2024 NFL Discussion Thread

[Joseph Zarr]

I legit LOL'd:

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

18 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

That OL is...pretty solid. RT they're about the same as the Packers(though I think Tom is still ascending). 
LT they're much better. They've got one of the best young LTs in the game.
Bradburry is a solid Center. 
 

Not that I think it matters or makes the Vikings any type of threat...

I'm actually curious what they could get for Jefferson. I think it'd be 2 1sts. Probably better if they sign him for a record setting contract instead. 

The Vikings should shop Jefferson this offseason to max out their draft capital and wear this season as the gut rebuild it needs to be in order to reset talent at key positions after Captain Kirk left them.

Instead, since they're already in year 3 of their GM/Coach combo, they're going to likely reshuffle the deck chairs they have left to try and scratch out a borderline 0.500 season, give Jefferson a salary-cap flexibility-crippling contract extension (seriously paying WRs huge money basically seals their fate that they won't have a stud veteran quarterback throwing them the ball), and hope to god whichever quarterback falls to them at #11 is good enough to win under their rookie contract.  If that all doesn't work out, they'll be looking for a new front office really darn soon.

[CheezWizHed]

18 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

That OL is...pretty solid. RT they're about the same as the Packers(though I think Tom is still ascending). 
LT they're much better. They've got one of the best young LTs in the game.
Bradburry is a solid Center. 

Maybe Bradbury improved, but he was getting run over 2 years ago.  Packers (i.e. Clark) continued to just crush him. And the OL overall didn't give anyone time last year.  The main reason Josh Dobbs was so successful was that people had to respect his legs.  The OL let people rush through like wet tissue paper last year.  Josh made them pay for it.  

Then Defenses realized they didn't need to rush him, went to containment mode to eliminate rushing lanes, and Josh couldn't throw well enough to win. 

Maybe individuals are decent on the line, but the sum total of the product continues to be bad. 

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Maybe Bradbury improved, but he was getting run over 2 years ago.  Packers (i.e. Clark) continued to just crush him. And the OL overall didn't give anyone time last year.  The main reason Josh Dobbs was so successful was that people had to respect his legs.  The OL let people rush through like wet tissue paper last year.  Josh made them pay for it.  

Then Defenses realized they didn't need to rush him, went to containment mode to eliminate rushing lanes, and Josh couldn't throw well enough to win. 

Maybe individuals are decent on the line, but the sum total of the product continues to be bad. 

You put almost any Center alone with Kenny Clark, he's gonna have a bad day. 

And I think you're...overstating the weakness of the OL and ignoring how big of an impact a veteran QB who gets the ball out on time+ play calling factor in.

They were elite when Cousins was playing.

When you put in bad QBs, they hold the ball and suddenly the OL ranking drops. I've said this with Billy Turner, Rasheed Walker, guys who benefited from Rodgers getting the ball out quickly and then the improvement in the OL play had as much to do with improvement in scheme and Love...IMO. 

[Samurai Bucky]

On 3/13/2024 at 10:15 AM, Joseph Zarr said:

I legit LOL'd:

Rodgers response would probably be something like:

"If something happens to you RFK, and I become President, I will have plenty of experience on how to handle the 'Football'.  Hello!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

[GAME05]

Who is Justin Herbert supposed to throw passes to now?

[OldHeidelberg]

Vikings trade up into the first round with Houston, giving up mainly #42 and their '25 2nd rounder to move up to #23. A trade like that this early could only mean they have their sights set on a QB and want to have ammo to move up. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, GAME05 said:

Who is Justin Herbert supposed to throw passes to now?

His cap hit for 2024 isn't even the reason the Chargers are working through cap hell this offseason.

[JosephC]

I don't think #11 + #23 gets the Vikings any higher than #5.  Decent chance that Williams, Daniels, Maye goes #1/#2/#3 and it would be very hard to get Arizona out of that #4 spot if Harrison in on the board.  I don't think they make this move if they are drooling over McCarthy.  He'll be overdrafted for sure, but to use the #11 pick, trade 2 second rounders, and move down about 50 spots late in the draft...to take a QB at #5 that seems to rank about 15th on prospect lists seems like too crazy of a move...even for the Vikings.

Could work out for Green Bay as it does seem to me that the top tier QBs are mostly overrated (as normal), so it sure wouldn't bother me to see the Vikings end up trading a couple drafts away for one of these guys.  They have any really attractive players that they can afford to trade away to get up there, or are they going to have to package #11, #23 and next years #1 to get into the top 3? 

Since the Bears market for Fields turned out to be a non-market, if I were them I would take #11, #23, #108 and a 1st rounder and 4th rounder in 2025.  That would give the Bears 3 of the top 23 picks this year, and they would have 2 1st rounders, 2 second rounders (second pick is from the Panthers) and 2 fourth rounders in next year's draft, giving them an excellent opportunity for them to get a QB next year.  And how good would the Bears and Vikings be next year.  Bears definitely should get better with adding 3 first rounders, Vikings could be worse with having a rookie QB out there.  Bears and Vikings 2025 1st rounders could end up being better than the #11 and #23 picks the Vikings currently hold.

[OldHeidelberg]

Maybe the Vikes like McCarthy and don’t want to risk waiting or maybe NE wants out of #3. I don’t think they make the trade now without being sure of their next move but they may have 2 3rd round comp picks next year so it’s possible they just had the pick to spare and like the top of this draft.

[CheezWizHed]

Playing with draft simulators makes me think of a few things:

- There are a lot of decent safeties and RBs in rounds 2-4.  Off ball LBs are a touch less, but still decent depth.

- Not many OTs outside of the first round.

- Guards seem sprinkled around, but not plentiful. 

 

[BrewerFan]

22 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

Playing with draft simulators makes me think of a few things:

- There are a lot of decent safeties and RBs in rounds 2-4.  Off ball LBs are a touch less, but still decent depth.

- Not many OTs outside of the first round.

- Guards seem sprinkled around, but not plentiful. 

 

Safety seems pretty weak. Again, why McKinney was so big.

LBers...it's kinda wild how much it varies from one mock or one site to the other, but Wilson and Cooper seem to be the clear top two. I think once you start looking at big safeties, guys who probably can't stay at Safety in the NFL(or at least in a scheme the Packers are going to be using), there is a lot of value there. Especially on Day3. Guys who can help out immediately on STs, but can't really hold up in the slot.

 Oladapo(Or St), Dominique Hampton(Wash), Jaylon Carlies(Miss), Ryan Watts(Texas) are all guy who I think are probably more WLBs in the NFL than safeties. Carlies especially reminds me of Owusu-Koramoah from the scouting reports and a few clips. 

James Williams is listed as a LBer now as well. All big, athletic guys in that 6'2 210-225 range. IIRC, Ray Lewis was 6'1 220 when he came out. 

I wouldn't want to rely on one of those guys in year 1, but you have McDuffie and Walker. Assuming you target a LBer early, you can ask one of those guys to start transitioning to LB and see what you have. 

 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

On 3/11/2024 at 6:32 PM, homer said:

The Bears may end up with a 6th round pick for Fields at this rate

Yep....lolz

[Joseph Zarr]

Bears fans continue to be spot on regarding their team. A glorious trade on a glorious Saturday. I can not wait for (1) the demise of Caleb Williams when he is forced to play early or (2) Caleb Williams' camp now publicly stating they refuse to play in Chicago. 

Either way, we are already well underway to their next set of foibles. I fondly recall the litany of Bears fans claiming they could get either a 1st or 2nd rd pick in addition to future draft assets. Incredible. 

[OldHeidelberg]

Why not just keep Fields as a backup/gadget player? He has talent and is going to just be a backup in Pitt, it’s not like they did him a favor. Bears are dumb.

[nate82]

4 hours ago, Joseph Zarr said:

Bears fans continue to be spot on regarding their team. A glorious trade on a glorious Saturday. I can not wait for (1) the demise of Caleb Williams when he is forced to play early or (2) Caleb Williams' camp now publicly stating they refuse to play in Chicago. 

Either way, we are already well underway to their next set of foibles. I fondly recall the litany of Bears fans claiming they could get either a 1st or 2nd rd pick in addition to future draft assets. Incredible. 

Caleb Williams should be fine as he will have Moore and Allen to throw to along with Kmet.  The Bears are really close in competing for a playoff spot.  They need some more help on the OL and DL but they should be able to address both in the draft now.  They could also trade down from 9 and get more picks especially if there is a run on QB’s.

I am not sure who thought the Bears could get a 1st or 2nd.  At best I was thinking a 3rd and more likely a 4th which this trade could turn into.  I think the best case scenario was a late 2nd round pick if there was a bidding war.  There never was going to be a bidding war for Fields.  He is just not accurate enough to be a NFL starting QB.  I said this when he was drafted the accuracy is just not there and he is also extremely slow at reading defenses in the passing game.  WR’s come open and he is 3-5 seconds late in seeing it.  That is a long time as it is the difference between completing the pass or not.

[Joseph Zarr]

10 hours ago, nate82 said:

The Bears are really close in competing for a playoff spot.  They need some more help on the OL and DL but they should be able to address both in the draft now. 

I admire your optimism. 

You absolutely may be right. But, I do believe the percentages don't favor this outcome. 

Regardless of my own bias and historicity, the NFC North certainly looks quite a bit better as a whole on paper than it did in 2023. Shaping up to possibly be a very competitive division.

[nate82]

1 hour ago, Joseph Zarr said:

I admire your optimism. 

You absolutely may be right. But, I do believe the percentages don't favor this outcome. 

Regardless of my own bias and historicity, the NFC North certainly looks quite a bit better as a whole on paper than it did in 2023. Shaping up to possibly be a very competitive division.

Maybe not but the Bears have the players in place for Williams to be successful in the NFL.  Moore, Allen and Kmet is a pretty good start.  Not to mention the Bears could get another good WR in this draft at #9.  They could also get a decent RB in the 3rd or 5th round.  They do need another OT and they could get a generational QB and OT at 1 and 9.

The Bears also still have a ton of cap room to add more if they wanted to in FA.

Back to the draft I wouldn’t be surprised if the Vikings get desperate and trade up to 9 and give up the 11th and 23rd picks to get a QB if there is a run on QB’s early.  The Raiders, Broncos and Vikings will all be competing for the 6-9 picks.  I think the Saints, Seahawks and Rams will also be vying for those picks to get a WR, OT or QB.  I think the Saints could be a surprise team that takes a QB early.

[LouisEly]

I hate to say this, but I think that the draft is shaping up pretty good for the Bears and their needs.  Fashanu should be there at #9, or they can move back a few spots, pick up an extra pick or two, and take Fautanu and play him anywhere on the line.  Or they could move back a few spots and address DL with their choice of Murphy or local guy Newton.   Or they could take their choice of edge rusher in Verse, Robinson, Turner, or Latu.

There's really no need for them to stay at #9 if someone wants to trade up.  They can move back and still address any of their needs; maybe not with their first choice but still a good player.

[LouisEly]

According to the Rich Hill draft value chart, the Viqueens could get #3 for #11 and #23 and still be an overpay of about a late 2nd/early 3rd.  In theory, they could give up #11 and #23 and get #3 and #68.

They would likely have to give up next year's #1 with #11 and #23 in order to move up to #2.  Maybe we'll get lucky and the Viqueens will be desperate enough to do just that.

[jerichoholicninja]

The Steelers gave up basically nothing so the value is fine but I don't see what the plan is here. They are going to have to pay either Russ or Fields to keep them there for 2025. They've already named the guy very much at the downside/end of his career as the starter and the much younger guy the backup. Fields isn't seeing the field unless Wilsons gets hurt or sucks so he leaves in free agency for some team in desperate need of a starter and they're left with Russ running on fumes. I guess the two guys they have now are better than the several bad ones they had before.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I don't know if it's a Bears ideology or if its Fields. When Fields comes off the field and sits down, the cameras never show him looking at the tablet to see what just happened. He is always just sitting down seemingly looking into space. 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, LouisEly said:

According to the Rich Hill draft value chart, the Viqueens could get #3 for #11 and #23 and still be an overpay of about a late 2nd/early 3rd.  In theory, they could give up #11 and #23 and get #3 and #68.

They would likely have to give up next year's #1 with #11 and #23 in order to move up to #2.  Maybe we'll get lucky and the Viqueens will be desperate enough to do just that.

I think they would need to give up 3 1sts to get into the third pick.  Which I think the Patriots would take as I don't think there is a QB after Williams and Maye that is worth the #3 pick.  I have heard rumblings that the Patriots may trade out of the 3rd pick if someone gets desperate or they will take Harrison Jr. 

If the Vikings do make a trade it is probably with the Patriots and they would have to give up a ton to get that 3rd pick.  Probably more than what the Bears got last year for the #1 pick.  If the Patriots don't trade out of the #3 spot that leaves only the #5-9 spots open for trades.  I believe all of those picks will change hands and none of the original teams picking there will pick there.  For those five picks and you could possibly add in #4 if the Patriots go with Harrison Jr at #3.  That could move the cost down and the Vikings may only need to give up #11 and a 3rd round pick for #9 but will that give them the QB they are looking for? 

CBS has the Vikings trading for the 3rd pick with the 11 and 23rd pick.  I am not sure the Patriots accept that without another 1st coming there way. 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-mock-draft-patriots-trade-back-but-still-land-first-round-qb-steelers-fortify-ol-for-russell-wilson/

 

[LouisEly]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

If the Vikings do make a trade it is probably with the Patriots and they would have to give up a ton to get that 3rd pick.  Probably more than what the Bears got last year for the #1 pick.

Why would a team have to give up more this year to not get their choice of QBs than a team gave up last year to get their choice of QBs?

[nate82]

1 minute ago, LouisEly said:

Why would a team have to give up more this year to not get their choice of QBs than a team gave up last year to get their choice of QBs?

I think there is more demand this year for a QB and the QB class is better than it was last year.  The draft probably goes Williams and then Maye or Daniels at 2 and 3.  Take your pick on those two at 2 and 3.  To me 11, 23 and another pick is better than what the Bears got last year for the #1 pick and I think that is what the Patriots will be demanding for that #3 pick.  So teams will have to overpay to get the Patriots off that pick.  The Vikings have the draft picks to do it but I am not sure they are that desperate.  Maybe they go 11, 2024 4th round and their 2025 2nd for one of the picks in the 5-9 range.  If the Patriots do go Harrison Jr at 3 then they could go that route with the Cardinals at the 4th pick but at that point there will be a lot of teams trying to jump them to get that 4th pick and they may have to do 11 and 23 to get the 4th pick if Daniels or Maye are available at 4.