Pirates (Skenes) vs Brewers (Civale): 7/11/24, 1:10pm

[kevinisaname]

I don't know why Hoskins or Chourio didn't PH for Frelick there, by the way.

[Team Canada]

Why was Frelick batting?

[BCF]

No idea why you wouldn’t PH Hoskins or Jackson for Frelick in that spot 

[HarryDoyle]

So we're just not going to use pinch hitters today. Great managing today, Murphy.

[TURBO]

1 minute ago, kevinisaname said:

Welp, we lose a very winnable game. That hurts. Get 'em tomorrow.

Not sure that would be categorized as a winnable game when Skenes did what he did, but yes, tomorrow's a new day.

[homer]

26 minutes ago, homer said:

Brewers are gonna win in extra innings

I meant lose in 9 innings

[Brewcrew82]

I understand not pinch hitting for Perkins as Holderman is particularly tough on righties, but no excuse not to pinch hit for Frelick there. Not a banner day for Murphy. 

[TURBO]

Murphy is tough to figure out when it comes to pinch hitting. I honestly never know what he'll do.

1 run game, made no sense.

[hoosier]

9 minutes ago, TURBO said:

For me, it wasn't because we were bunting, it was because Monasterio was bunting.  He has never been able to put a successful sac bunt down in his career, EVER.  Why ask him to do so in that situation?

I am not against bunting in the least, but I am against forcing a guy who simply can't bunt to do it in that situation.

Big difference.

I don't disagree with the principle. My question is, how does a guy whose hit tools are substandard at this level get to this point without ever being asked to learn that craft? This is one example among so many of how the obsession with the long ball is happening to the detriment of the game. If Monestario, like so many thousands of mediocre hitters who came before him, were able to lay down a bunt, the Brewers are a heavy favorite to tie it up or take the lead in the 8th. 

[tmwiese55]

To me it just supports the general 'anti bunt' crowd.  Bunting is talked about as if its just simple easy thing, its just not easy anymore due to how hard the pitchers throw and how much more movement there is on breaking pitches.  It's just not a simple "just bent them over".

No idea on why to leave Frelick in vs an elite lefty though when a HR ties the game. 

[hoosier]

I should have fact checked before responding. Turns out Andrew Monasterio DOES know how to bunt! 31 successful bunts in his professional career, 26 of em in the minors and 5 overseas, in his ten year career. So he can do it, he just didn't do it today. https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=monast000and

[Nola Beery]

I kinda blew the gig today. But it looks like Skenes is as good as advertised. Boogers. Let's get a win. We're due for a winning streak.

[Jim French Stepstool]

I think the biggest key to this one was not being able to sustain the quality of ABs we did in the 2nd & 3rd innings. Had a chance to wave bye bye to Skenes after 5 or 6 innings. Of course he had a lot to do with our not being able to do that. His command, his pitch mix, his knowledge of when to attack---he could've averaged 95-96 on the FB and been just as effective.

I already railed about the lousy approaches in the 7th. Repeat in the 9th. Chapman has AVERAGED about a walk per inning. Yelich set the tone, the tone apparently being that we thought it was Dennis Eckersley out there.

I can just imagine some of the howling about the eighth. Monasterio failed, period. Anderson and/or Schroeder mentioned that he had never laid down a sac bunt in MLB. That's true. It's also true that he's bunted successfully twenty-one times in his professional career. He can do it. Today, he failed & it cost us. I was a little surprised Chourio or Hoskins weren't used for Perkins despite the L-R thing, but Holderman has huge splits. Murphy put more weight on that, then on Perkins looking poor at the plate all day. Didn't work out.

Why Frelick hit in the 9th, I got nothin'. EDIT: In postgame he mentioned Chapman being wild vs LHH this year & Frelick being someone that could extract the walk. Hoskins would've hit next.

We lose the battle but win the war if this is what we're getting out of Civale going forward.

[hoosier]

9 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

To me it just supports the general 'anti bunt' crowd.  Bunting is talked about as if its just simple easy thing, its just not easy anymore due to how hard the pitchers throw and how much more movement there is on breaking pitches.  It's just not a simple "just bent them over".

No idea on why to leave Frelick in vs an elite lefty though when a HR ties the game. 

Bunt success rates are actually up a tick since 2022, now close to 67% as compared to 60% back when pitchers got to hit. That's probably because they've now removed the worst offenders from the picture and only guys who are accomplished at it are asked to do it. My experience was limited, but I would rather try to lay down a bunt on a sweeping curve ball than on the high heat. 

[hoosier]

8 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

I

We lose the battle but win the war if this is what we're getting out of Civale going forward.

Good point, and the one bright spot from this otherwise forgettable day!

[Jim French Stepstool]

27 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

To me it just supports the general 'anti bunt' crowd.  Bunting is talked about as if its just simple easy thing, its just not easy anymore due to how hard the pitchers throw and how much more movement there is on breaking pitches.  It's just not a simple "just bent them over".

No idea on why to leave Frelick in vs an elite lefty though when a HR ties the game. 

In this day & age you're right, it isn't a simple thing. But the way I look at it his trying to lay one down results in a much better chance of a successful AB (I consider moving the runners up successful) than letting him swing away. A guarantee? No.

He addressed the Frelick AB in the presser. Chapman has apparently walked a ton vs LHH, and Frelick has been swinging the bat well. He had Hoskins on deck. Originally it was a head scratcher for me too. Still questionable, but there was at least a thought process there.

[Jim French Stepstool]

39 minutes ago, TURBO said:

For me, it wasn't because we were bunting, it was because Monasterio was bunting.  He has never been able to put a successful sac bunt down in his career, EVER.  Why ask him to do so in that situation?

I am not against bunting in the least, but I am against forcing a guy who simply can't bunt to do it in that situation.

Big difference.

He's never laid one down in his MLB career. He's done it successfully 21 times in the minor leagues, and I believe a few times overseas. And I think he's bunted for a hit a time or two with Milwaukee.

That's what we get for listening to Brian Anderson.

[tmwiese55]

13 minutes ago, Jim French Stepstool said:

In this day & age you're right, it isn't a simple thing. But the way I look at it his trying to lay one down results in a much better chance of a successful AB (I consider moving the runners up successful) than letting him swing away. A guarantee? No.

He addressed the Frelick AB in the presser. Chapman has apparently walked a ton vs LHH, and Frelick has been swinging the bat well. He had Hoskins on deck. Originally it was a head scratcher for me too. Still questionable, but there was at least a thought process there.

And tbf, if there is ever a time to do it is very late in the game when you need 1 run.    Which again just gets back to my original posts real point which is that decisions like this are so close and can go either way without anyone being an idiot for it. There is a logic all the way around, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't since none are 100%

[Playing Catch]

I disagreed with Murphy's decisions, or lack thereof today. Pinch run Capra for Bauers, pinch hit Hoskins for Monasterio, pinch hit Chourio for Frelick. I didn't mind Perkins batting.

Very disappointed.

I think the Monasterio bunt decision was excusable, even if I didn't like it. Once he decided that he wasn't gunna pinch hit, he was going to try to stay out of the DP. Okay fine. But I don't think Frelick batting in a one-run game is excusable. It's a mistake, period.

[Jim French Stepstool]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

I disagreed with Murphy's decisions, or lack thereof today. Pinch run Capra for Bauers, pinch hit Hoskins for Monasterio, pinch hit Chourio for Frelick. I didn't mind Perkins batting.

Very disappointed.

I think the Monasterio bunt decision was excusable, even if I didn't like it. Once he decided that he wasn't gunna pinch hit, he was going to try to stay out of the DP. Okay fine. But I don't think Frelick batting in a one-run game is excusable. It's a mistake, period.

I think he was looking ahead to Chapman in the 9th, and the 5-6-7 all LHH looming. So if you ran Capra & PH Hoskins in the 8th, you're looking at Chourio (for Frelick) due up either 3rd or 4th in the 9th (It turned out to be 3rd since Turang drew the walk). Then you're looking at Capra hitting after him w/no real alternatives unless you hit Haase for him & wind up with no serious defensive options if you don't win it right there.

Your way in the 8th might very well have worked. But it had better, because you're pretty much shooting your whole wad.

[BruisedCrew]

3 hours ago, hoosier said:

Bunt success rates are actually up a tick since 2022, now close to 67% as compared to 60% back when pitchers got to hit. That's probably because they've now removed the worst offenders from the picture and only guys who are accomplished at it are asked to do it. My experience was limited, but I would rather try to lay down a bunt on a sweeping curve ball than on the high heat. 

I am a big anti bunt guy, I only favor bunting in very limited situations and today wasn’t one of those situations for me. 

IMHO those stats about bunt success rates are very misleading. It is my understanding that they only count bunt attempts if a bunt is actually put in play or the batter strikes out attempting to bunt. 

So, Monasterio’s K today would not count as a failed sacrifice attempt. If you factor in ABs wasted by a hitter failing to bunt and falling in a hole, the probability of actually advancing a runner with a sacrifice are lower than that 67%.

What I wanted to see in that spot was putting in one of the team’s better hitters (Chourio) and giving him a shot at swinging away. I had very little confidence that Monasterio could either lay down a successful sacrifice or do anything positive swinging away.