Fixing the Playoffs

[Playing Catch]

Naturally, there have been a lot of posts about the [stupid] playoff format.

I'll be the first to say that I think the current format is the best they can do at this point in time for the game of baseball. I think MLB knows that they have to give fans in all 30 cities hope every spring in order to remain consistently relevant on the sports landscape.

There are thousands of iterations that could no doubt be posted in this thread, many of which would require massive changes to the entire baseball landscape --- which is fine! Hypothesize away! To prevent TOO much insanity, though, let's assume there will always be around 80-90 home games.

 

My suggestion will be an anathema for many, but as a fan of soccer, I appreciate that the most important trophy for the English Premier League is their regular season championship. In a home-and-home round robin schedule, the cream rises to the top. There is little to dispute as to which team has performed the best in any given season. This "regular season" champion should be deemed WORLD CHAMPIONS, and should be bestowed the current World Championship trophy. It is sad to me that the 2001 Mariners are a mere footnote in baseball history with 116 wins. They should be considered one of the best teams of all-time. Maybe in order for ANY team to win the trophy in a season, they must win 100 games, making it possible that there is not a champion in a particular season.

In soccer, they have other competitions as well. Competitions that are often a traditional tournament bracket style. Having a separate tournament or two that overlap parts of the baseball season can present new trophy opportunities to celebrate. These could merely mimic the current system of rewarding the best teams, or they could put payroll limitations, or market-size limitations on a tournament to reward the "Small-market Championship," or there could be divisional all-star teams that compete throughout the year in a six-team "league".

I'm curious of your thoughts.

[MrTPlush]

3 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

Naturally, there have been a lot of posts about the [stupid] playoff format.

I'll be the first to say that I think the current format is the best they can do at this point in time for the game of baseball. I think MLB knows that they have to give fans in all 30 cities hope every spring in order to remain consistently relevant on the sports landscape.

There are thousands of iterations that could no doubt be posted in this thread, many of which would require massive changes to the entire baseball landscape --- which is fine! Hypothesize away! To prevent TOO much insanity, though, let's assume there will always be around 80-90 home games.

 

My suggestion will be an anathema for many, but as a fan of soccer, I appreciate that the most important trophy for the English Premier League is their regular season championship. In a home-and-home round robin schedule, the cream rises to the top. There is little to dispute as to which team has performed the best in any given season. This "regular season" champion should be deemed WORLD CHAMPIONS, and should be bestowed the current World Championship trophy. It is sad to me that the 2001 Mariners are a mere footnote in baseball history with 116 wins. They should be considered one of the best teams of all-time. Maybe in order for ANY team to win the trophy in a season, they must win 100 games, making it possible that there is not a champion in a particular season.

In soccer, they have other competitions as well. Competitions that are often a traditional tournament bracket style. Having a separate tournament or two that overlap parts of the baseball season can present new trophy opportunities to celebrate. These could merely mimic the current system of rewarding the best teams, or they could put payroll limitations, or market-size limitations on a tournament to reward the "Small-market Championship," or there could be divisional all-star teams that compete throughout the year in a six-team "league".

I'm curious of your thoughts.

I really don't know what to say other than these are some of the worst ideas I have ever heard in the history of "fix the playoffs" in any sport.

[Brewcrew82]

There are two good options in my mind:

1) If MLB is set on keeping the format, make it so the division winners only have to win one game to advance in the Wild Card. MLB needs to get back to rewarding teams who win their division over a 162 game season. Home field is simply not enough in baseball. 

2) Turn the Wild Card round into a play-in type round. 5 seed competes in a single game against the 6 seed for the right to play the 4th seed. Winner and 4th seed then play one game for the right to play the 1 seed. The division winners get automatic byes to the Division Series as they did before 2022. Make the Division Series a best of 7 to keep same number of games for revenue purposes.

Second option is best but first isn't horrible either and doesn't require as much change. A third, but less appealing option is to expand the postseason by two per league and eliminate the bye for the division winners like in 2020 and in the NBA/NHL. Which would likely perpetuate the chaos, but would also put everyone on an even playing field and eliminate any potential "rust" issues for the top two seeds. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think one way to do this the right way with an expanded playoff format is for MLB to also give itself more time to let extended playoff rounds take place.  That means fewer regular season games, then having best of 7 series throughout after a wild card best 2 out of 3 series happens.

3 division winners plus 2 wild cards per league.

Wild card teams play a best 2 out of 3 series right after the regular season

then divisional, LCS, and world series rounds are all best of 7.

Reduce the MLB regular season back to 154 games to allow for an extra couple of weeks starting late September through end of October to get lengthier playoff rounds in - damn the regular season counting stat records.

 

[tmwiese55]

9 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

There are two good options in my mind:

1) If MLB is set on keeping the format, make it so the division winners only have to win one game to advance in the Wild Card. MLB needs to get back to rewarding teams who win their division over a 162 game season. Home field is simply not enough in baseball. 

2) Turn the Wild Card round into a play-in type round. 5 seed competes in a single game against the 6 seed for the right to play the 4th seed. Winner and 4th seed then play one game for the right to play the 1 seed. The division winners get automatic byes to the Division Series as they did before 2022. Make the Division Series a best of 7 to keep same number of games for revenue purposes.

Second option is best but first isn't horrible either and doesn't require as much change. A third, but less appealing option is to expand the postseason by two per league and eliminate the bye for the division winners like in 2020 and in the NBA/NHL. Which would likely perpetuate the chaos, but would also put everyone on an even playing field and eliminate any potential "rust" issues for the top two seeds. 

I really like the 2 here, it kind of steals that NBA play in game thing.   Issue is people who hate 3 game series and the chaos will say it sucks its all coming down 1 game (which is what led to this 3 game thing).  But, those paying closer attention will realize its more important to value the division winners in regular season.

I'd just add, as the smallest market we shouldn't be too urgent to get rid of the chaos this creates. Generally its good for us as we'll never be the Dodgers/Yanks top team every year.  Its just lately we've been on the crap end of it.

[Brewcrew82]

3 minutes ago, tmwiese55 said:

I really like the 2 here, it kind of steals that NBA play in game thing.   Issue is people who hate 3 game series and the chaos will say it sucks its all coming down 1 game (which is what led to this 3 game thing).  But, those paying closer attention will realize its more important to value the division winners in regular season.

I'd just add, as the smallest market we shouldn't be too urgent to get rid of the chaos this creates. Generally its good for us as we'll never be the Dodgers/Yanks top team every year.  Its just lately we've been on the crap end of it.

This is true. For as badly as we all hate the format right now because our double digit division victory was nullified with two losses, you could argue it offers the Brewers their best chance at a WS title by leveling the playing field against the bigger markets. 

[jay87shot]

To be honest, I really like how they are set up. You are never going to be able to shorten the season and you can't make anything longer. We had 3 home games to beat a team that we were better than in the regular season. I hate the 1 game play-in and I think a 1 win advantage is way to big of an advantage. With the 12 teams in the playoffs I don't think they have to few or to many teams, there could be seasons where a 84ish team makes the playoffs and a 100+ win team is a wild card team but I think that will be a rarity.

For me, any "fix" makes the playoff problems bigger. The only problem is that have 3 home games isn't as big of a home field advantage as other sports.

[patrickgpe]

I personally its 50% WC getting hot at the end of the year (playing to get in, while the #1 and #2 seeds are resting / setting pitching rotation at the end of the year) and 50% the layoff.

If MLB wants to expand it to 8 so teams get a layoff, I'm fine with that. If MLB wants to go back to 4. I'm fine with that. The only thing that I'm not OK with is the 2012-2021 rules of a 1 game WC. 

Also as I said in my 1st paragraph, I don't necessarily think the playoffs need fixing., but I do agree watching WC teams rather than the top seeds in the WS weakens the event. 

[treego14]

5 hours ago, Playing Catch said:

I think MLB knows that they have to give fans in all 30 cities hope every spring in order to remain consistently relevant on the sports landscape

Then MLB should get equal team revenue sharing like the NFL!

Anything short of that means a rigged league!

[OldSchoolSnapper]

They had it just right with the 5-team format, the division champions got auto bids to the real playoffs, then you had the stupid thing #4 but at least it was with teams that didn't win divisions and only 1 game. It was the perfect balance of retaining meaning where it should be, yet doing just enough to keep a few more teams in the running to the end.

This stupid thing now is a complete disservice to the #3 seed. Biased, sure, but I still think it's true.

[Thurston Fluff]

Leave it as is would be my vote. If anything add two teams and make all the teams play the first round but I'd prefer it to be as is. The playoffs have never been about making sure the best team wins. It's always been about getting teams that have the chance to win four series in a row against quality competition a chance to win four series in a row against quality competition.

I do have one radical, and completely impractical, change that will never get implemented but would be fun for fans. Have a set number of wins to make the playoffs instead of a set number of teams that make it. You can have divisions if you want but if they just had all teams play the same schedule and all teams that get to 90 wins are in.

[tmwiese55]

23 minutes ago, Thurston Fluff said:

Leave it as is would be my vote. If anything add two teams and make all the teams play the first round but I'd prefer it to be as is. The playoffs have never been about making sure the best team wins. It's always been about getting teams that have the chance to win four series in a row against quality competition a chance to win four series in a row against quality competition.

I do have one radical, and completely impractical, change that will never get implemented but would be fun for fans. Have a set number of wins to make the playoffs instead of a set number of teams that make it. You can have divisions if you want but if they just had all teams play the same schedule and all teams that get to 90 wins are in.

Yup to the bolded.   Essentially what people are arguing for here is the exact opposite of what was argued for in CFB for 20 years.     CFB had the best system for actual best team actually being crowned (besides possibly NBA), yet people stomped their feet demanding playoffs and for it to be decided on the field!!! (as if regular season doesn't happen on a field).     Now in baseball people are arguing against it.     Sorry, I know I'm a rare BCS supporter (was generally fine with it going to 4 teams, could be talked into 6 to create 'need' to be top 2 for the bye)

[SomewhereInTime]

Three division winners and one wild card from each league.  Postseason starts with the divisional series.  Anything more than eight out of thirty is always worse.

[SomewhereInTime]

2 hours ago, tmwiese55 said:

Yup to the bolded.   Essentially what people are arguing for here is the exact opposite of what was argued for in CFB for 20 years.     CFB had the best system for actual best team actually being crowned (besides possibly NBA), yet people stomped their feet demanding playoffs and for it to be decided on the field!!! (as if regular season doesn't happen on a field).     Now in baseball people are arguing against it.     Sorry, I know I'm a rare BCS supporter (was generally fine with it going to 4 teams, could be talked into 6 to create 'need' to be top 2 for the bye)

That's because 4/130 is not a playoff, especially when undefeated teams get left out.  That is an invitational.  There has never actually been a national champion in D1 FBS level football and the NCAA does not directly crown one.  There have only been mythical titles claimed by schools after winning bowl games.

MLB used to have 8/30 make the postseason.  This was a reasonable number and it meant that making the postseason was somewhat difficult and meant something.  That's the number it should be today.

[Playing Catch]

5 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

I really don't know what to say other than these are some of the worst ideas I have ever heard in the history of "fix the playoffs" in any sport.

Hahaha, you are probably right! Initially, I was thinking the thread would be much more practical, like many of the suggestions here, but I got carried away, and my post became a bit ridiculous.

I stand by my comments, but they were NOT in line with how baseball could practically "fix" the playoffs. My commentary was more fantasy than practical.

I'm not sure what MLB's timetable is for expansion, but I strongly suspect that when they add two teams, they will also split into 8 divisions... 8 playoff teams per league. OR, they will do away with divisions altogether and reimagining the playoffs with seeds, with or without byes.

[Austin Tatious]

I don’t think a division winner should be subjected to a three game playoff.  

Having said that, IMO our angst  is exacerbated by the fact that we haven’t found a year where we overachieved and stole a short series from a better team.  Maybe we are due and we will get there soon based on luck of the draw.  But so far it hasn’t been our thing.  

[AJOHNSON104]

I don't buy the whole argument about teams getting rusty. After the divisional round, a team that sweeps could have to wait 4 days for their competition to finish their 5 game series. Many critics are arguing that the division series should be 7 games. That would result in the potential for an even longer layoff for teams that sweep. However, do you think any teams will try not to win the series in a sweep just so they don't have to rest? They'll all take the sweep and the days off. 

If teams were worried about getting rusty after a 4 days rest they can always have some of their non-roster players pitch simulated games, scrimmage, have batting practice against machines, etc.  

   

[rickh150]

I like playoffs, as is.  Way better than just four teams getting in for the entire MLB back in the day,,,what were they thinking? Must have not liked playoff games and playoff money.

And I like it better than just the 8 teams with one Wild Card, only because now it gives the #1 and #2 teams in each league a bye. It also favors the best wild card and division winner (which could be either way in total wins) in that ALL games played are at HOME!  If you can’t win 2 of 3 at home, you don’t deserve to move on….And I like the 3, 5, 7, 7 format in each round.  
 

Only thing I’d change is having all games start at 5 or later….crazy to change starting times with late notice for fans and especially ticket holders.  I mean, if Atlanta  won their Game 2, we would have had a 2 o’clock start the next day for Game 3!  And it was announced late that night! Crazy.

[tmwiese55]

15 hours ago, SomewhereInTime said:

That's because 4/130 is not a playoff, especially when undefeated teams get left out.  That is an invitational.  There has never actually been a national champion in D1 FBS level football and the NCAA does not directly crown one.  There have only been mythical titles claimed by schools after winning bowl games.

MLB used to have 8/30 make the postseason.  This was a reasonable number and it meant that making the postseason was somewhat difficult and meant something.  That's the number it should be today.

we weren't talking about whether it was a playoff.  We were talking about how successful it was at the actual best team ended up champion.  It was likely the highest % hit rate on  "did the actual best team end up champion?", though debatable with NBA.

And yea due to the occasional issue you said is why I was fine with going to 4.

[patrickgpe]

19 hours ago, treego14 said:

Then MLB should get equal team revenue sharing like the NFL!

Anything short of that means a rigged league!

YES! its glaring this year with the real possibility that 3 of the final 4 teams will have 300 million dollar payrolls if the dodgers don't choke tonight. 

Fans don't want a chance to make the playoffs once in a while by expanding the # of teams, but rather a real chance to win it all.

[duewizard]

16 hours ago, SomewhereInTime said:

Three division winners and one wild card from each league.  Postseason starts with the divisional series.  Anything more than eight out of thirty is always worse.

I liked the 10/30 more. Theres always at least 2 good teams that lose their division by a few games. I liked the WildCard winner take all game even if it did burn us in 2019.

But yeah 12 is ridiculous and having more would be even worse

[nate82]

Some on here are going to hate the playoff structure once MLB expands by at least two teams. The playoffs will also expand by two teams once that happens.  The owners have already stated it will expand once the two new teams are added into the league.  They were actually going to expand the playoffs in the last CBA but decided to stick with the current format until the league expands.  

It will be at least fourteen teams total in the playoffs once the league expands and don't be surprised if it is sixteen teams in total.  I think they go to a 5-5-7 format but I think that would require shortening the season by about 10-15 games.  I don't believe MLB would do that so it probably goes 3-5-7 like it is now. I like the idea that the home team in a three game series would only need to win once.  That would give home field advantage an actual advantage in baseball. 

I would also like to see the lottery removed for the first round picks.  Instead do a playoff with all of the lower seeds for the #1 pick.  So the teams eligible for picks 1-8 would play a single elimination playoff series.  The farther the team goes in the playoffs the better their pick becomes.  The worst team in MLB gets the #1 seed if they are eligible to draft in the first 10 picks.  If they are not eligible then it goes to the next team and on down.  All games are to be played at stadiums that have a roof that are not in the WS playoffs.  Would also like to see some roster restrictions like the players can't be pending free agents and any players who are not arbitration eligible that are on the roster are guaranteed a roster spot on next years opening day roster, the 26 man roster specifically.

[SomewhereInTime]

1 hour ago, nate82 said:

Some on here are going to hate the playoff structure once MLB expands by at least two teams. The playoffs will also expand by two teams once that happens.  The owners have already stated it will expand once the two new teams are added into the league.  They were actually going to expand the playoffs in the last CBA but decided to stick with the current format until the league expands.  

It will be at least fourteen teams total in the playoffs once the league expands and don't be surprised if it is sixteen teams in total.  I think they go to a 5-5-7 format but I think that would require shortening the season by about 10-15 games.  I don't believe MLB would do that so it probably goes 3-5-7 like it is now. I like the idea that the home team in a three game series would only need to win once.  That would give home field advantage an actual advantage in baseball. 

I would also like to see the lottery removed for the first round picks.  Instead do a playoff with all of the lower seeds for the #1 pick.  So the teams eligible for picks 1-8 would play a single elimination playoff series.  The farther the team goes in the playoffs the better their pick becomes.  The worst team in MLB gets the #1 seed if they are eligible to draft in the first 10 picks.  If they are not eligible then it goes to the next team and on down.  All games are to be played at stadiums that have a roof that are not in the WS playoffs.  Would also like to see some roster restrictions like the players can't be pending free agents and any players who are not arbitration eligible that are on the roster are guaranteed a roster spot on next years opening day roster, the 26 man roster specifically.

A playoff between all the bad teams for the #1 pick defies all logic.

[owbc]

I like expanded playoffs and I would be fine with either the current count or one additional team per league getting in. It's clearly very good for baseball to see these sold out playoff crowds in small markets like Milwaukee, Cleveland, Detroit, and KC. Teams like Detroit and KC are clearly going to see large increases in attendance in 2025 because of the hype generated from making it to the division series. 

I don't think there is much wrong with the current format. For one thing, it hasn't been around long enough for teams to fully adapt to it and come up with a winning strategy. It already looks like the teams with byes have now adapted to having a few days off -- all four of the higher seeds won game 1 of the division series this year. There's a decent chance of the dreaded Yankees-Dodgers World Series that would draw the highest TV ratings in decades. So I would default to letting the current format ride for a few more years with only minor tweaks. 

The third-seeded division winner is the main loser in the current format, so if I was going to make reforms that's where I would make them. I also think if they want to do gimmicky stuff they should go crazy with the 4-5-6 (and maybe +7-8) seeds). Make it fun for the fans of wild card teams. 

Also, please, please, please drop an off day or two and make the division series best-of-7. 

[owbc]

2 minutes ago, SomewhereInTime said:

A playoff between all the bad teams for the #1 pick defies all logic.

For non-playoff teams, September record should be part of the criteria for determining draft order (not the entire criteria due to unbalanced schedule, but at least part of it). More motivation to make the teams out of contention play spoiler.