Brewers need to turn SP depth into a corner IF

[patrickgpe]

Civale and Quintana are definitely expendable. I would think Patrick too. Priester is hard to trade since they gave up so much for him but it seems clear they need to acquire a SS or 3rd baseman for the playoff run and that seems the best way to do it. 

[TURBO]

Nope, not trading Patrick at this point.  Civale, sure, have at it.  I'd keep Quintana for the playoffs unless we get an offer that is ridiculous.

We have to keep someone to pitch in the playoffs you are mentioning.  We can't just trade away everyone, that goes against the reason we need a SS/3B, for the playoffs, right?  Can't win playoff games with no starting pitching.

[liveforoctober]

1 hour ago, patrickgpe said:

I would think Patrick too. 

???

[wallus]

Okay but for who? 

[Klantz27]

Keep quintana i would trade civale also cortes when he's back woodruff if he agrees to it 

Also hoskins should be on the block as well im hoping to see a jefferson quero william contreras catcher first base tandom type deal eventually 

Pena and made is the future at ss 3b need good players to fill the void for 3 years though Pratt and wilken could be traded also

[patrickgpe]

10 hours ago, liveforoctober said:

???

I would be ok with trading Chad Patrick.

[endaround]

Civale isn't going to turn into SS/3b unless he does that by freeing money because the Brewers are at their salary limit.  The SP depth that will add someone comes in the form of Crow or Wichrowski.

[liveforoctober]

28 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

I would be ok with trading Chad Patrick.

You started this thread saying we need to flip a starter for a 3b "for the playoff run" which implies you want someone who will be better than that we have, i.e. a major league ready infielder. 

Who exactly do you think we would get for Chad Patrick that would propel us into the "contender" category and is worth giving up a guy who is currently a consensus top 3 rookie of the year candidate (who has been our best/2nd best pitcher and could be a staple in the rotation for the next half decade)?

This doesn't make any practical sense. We are not a 3b away from beating any of the top 3 teams in the NL, even less so if we give away our most productive starter, respectfully.

[Brewer77]

It’s unlikely we will be able to directly trade surplus MLB starters for SS/3B. The Brewers aren’t going to trade away controllable starters unless they’re getting controllable players in return. There are very few controllable SS/3B that will be available 

They can trade away rental SP, but the teams that want rental starters are unlikely to have SS/3B that would help our lineup that they’d be willing to give up

It will likely have to happen in separate trades. Trade for a SS/3B and backfill with prospects acquired for Civale/Quintana/etc

Go look at the top SS/3B this year. Most are on contending teams or are pre-arb players. It’s a tough market to find meaningful upgrades 

[iKezims]

The market for a starting caliber 3B does not include teams that need an expiring SP. The market is also pretty thin. McMahon is going to take prospects only, Kiner-Falefa is going to take prospects only. You might be able to swing something with Arizona (Civale + ?) for Suarez if they commit to Lawler. Dodgers and Braves could use an arm but they aren't matches and would take a third team. 

Trading Patrick right now would go against everything the Brewers want to achieve. He is slotted into the middle of the rotation for the next five years in a perfect world with Henderson, Mis, Meyers, Gasser (etc) so it would take an overpay from someone for the Brewers to even consider it. 

[patrickgpe]

10 hours ago, liveforoctober said:

You started this thread saying we need to flip a starter for a 3b "for the playoff run" which implies you want someone who will be better than that we have, i.e. a major league ready infielder. 

Who exactly do you think we would get for Chad Patrick that would propel us into the "contender" category and is worth giving up a guy who is currently a consensus top 3 rookie of the year candidate (who has been our best/2nd best pitcher and could be a staple in the rotation for the next half decade)?

This doesn't make any practical sense. We are not a 3b away from beating any of the top 3 teams in the NL, even less so if we give away our most productive starter, respectfully.

The point of my post was to saw we have starters rotting in nashville and left side infielders with negative WAR. Will you get an elite infielder for our depth, no, can you get a guy like when they got Jerry Hairston Jr, I think so. Just looking for a guy that can hit about 250, brewers have prospects almost ready, just need to bridge the gap. 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, patrickgpe said:

The point of my post was to saw we have starters rotting in nashville and left side infielders with negative WAR. Will you get an elite infielder for our depth, no, can you get a guy like when they got Jerry Hairston Jr, I think so. Just looking for a guy that can hit about 250, brewers have prospects almost ready, just need to bridge the gap. 

I don't think there is a player like that out there.  I believe in order for the Brewers to get an upgrade at SS you are looking at trading at least Misio and a few other prospects.  The off season maybe the better option to upgrade at least at 3B.  I think a Josh Smith for Peralta makes a lot of sense for both teams.  

[Beaugie]

54 minutes ago, nate82 said:

I don't think there is a player like that out there.  I believe in order for the Brewers to get an upgrade at SS you are looking at trading at least Misio and a few other prospects.  The off season maybe the better option to upgrade at least at 3B.  I think a Josh Smith for Peralta makes a lot of sense for both teams.  

Josh Smith from the Rangers? That would be an awful haul for Peralta. Smith is 27, an average player all around at best. If that's what we net for Freddy I'll hold him

[liveforoctober]

7 hours ago, patrickgpe said:

The point of my post was to saw we have starters rotting in nashville and left side infielders with negative WAR. Will you get an elite infielder for our depth, no, can you get a guy like when they got Jerry Hairston Jr, I think so. Just looking for a guy that can hit about 250, brewers have prospects almost ready, just need to bridge the gap. 

Would you trade Chad Patrick for the 2025 version of Jerry Hairston?

[Frisbee Slider]

 Ramon Urias of Baltimore?

Jonathan India is below replacement level this year but has some time at 3B

Will Gio Urshela (rehabbing soon) or Miguel Andujar (oblique injury) from Athletics? Luis Urias?

Everyone else is on contenders. Even the Royals are closer to wild card than Brewers.

Not saying anyone for Chad Patrick. Just finding available ML ready 3B.

 

[sveumrules]

Durbin is hitting 246/338/391 (107 wRC+) during the Brewers recent 15 W - 7 L run.

Ortiz is at 230/338/328 (95 wRC+) over that same stretch.

Nothing earth shattering by any means, but massive improvements (some might call it positive regression) on the 53 and 26 wRC+ marks they were sporting on May 17th.

[Jopal78]

For a franchise that mostly squandered the Fielder, Braun, Weeks, Hart, years due to an inability to develop starting pitching; I think the last thing they would consider is trading homegrown pre-arbitration eligible starting pitching merely because they have a little depth there in 2025.

Civale (performance) would probably only bring salary relief (like the pile of nothing the Brewers traded for Montas). Woodruff and Cortes have no value until their actually healthy and pitching.
 

In exchange for 10-12 starts by Quintana for a contender, I’m not sure the Brewers would get a vast improvement over Durbin and Ortiz. 
 

I thought they’d have a load of riches to trade at the deadline if they wanted to retool but it certainly seems to have gone up in smoke with injury and ineffectiveness

[patrickgpe]

6 hours ago, liveforoctober said:

Would you trade Chad Patrick for the 2025 version of Jerry Hairston?

i would imagine Patrick would warrant more with 5.5 years of control. Again my point was that you should be able to get someone that can play short or 3rd thats not considered a top pickup but would be valuable until a guy like Boeve or Wilken is ready. 

[liveforoctober]

20 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

i would imagine Patrick would warrant more with 5.5 years of control. Again my point was that you should be able to get someone that can play short or 3rd thats not considered a top pickup but would be valuable until a guy like Boeve or Wilken is ready. 

My issue is dealing Patrick specifically for "Jerry Hairston". You will likely make our team worse if you traded Patrick for a league average SS right now. The WAR gained going from Ortiz to "Hairston" for the rest of the year(1 WAR added?) would be likely offset or worse by going from Patrick -> replacement in the rotation. 

So in all likelihood that move is net neutral overall to the team or best case scenario we add 1 win? 2 wins? So we bump from an 82 win team to an 84 win team and have to face the Padres in the wild card regardless? 

All the while losing half a decade of the top rookie pitcher this year in the NL.

[patrickgpe]

3 hours ago, liveforoctober said:

My issue is dealing Patrick specifically for "Jerry Hairston". You will likely make our team worse if you traded Patrick for a league average SS right now. The WAR gained going from Ortiz to "Hairston" for the rest of the year(1 WAR added?) would be likely offset or worse by going from Patrick -> replacement in the rotation. 

So in all likelihood that move is net neutral overall to the team or best case scenario we add 1 win? 2 wins? So we bump from an 82 win team to an 84 win team and have to face the Padres in the wild card regardless? 

All the while losing half a decade of the top rookie pitcher this year in the NL.

i understand your point and I agree with you that dealing a Chad Patrick should get you better than a Jerry Hairston. The point of this thread is that nobody would argue that they don't have an excess of starting pitching nor would anyone argue that their daily lineup could use some help. I do not think its wise to trade anyone of top 30 prospect status for that player. I was just wondering if the brewers could move the bottom of their rotation for a player. The Brewers are not a championship caliber team, but I think they could still be a playoff team but need to improve their lineup to do so. 

[liveforoctober]

23 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

i understand your point and I agree with you that dealing a Chad Patrick should get you better than a Jerry Hairston. The point of this thread is that nobody would argue that they don't have an excess of starting pitching nor would anyone argue that their daily lineup could use some help. I do not think its wise to trade anyone of top 30 prospect status for that player. I was just wondering if the brewers could move the bottom of their rotation for a player. The Brewers are not a championship caliber team, but I think they could still be a playoff team but need to improve their lineup to do so. 

We are on the same page. Cheers!

[patrickgpe]

Just now, liveforoctober said:

We are on the same page. Cheers!

i knew we could get there :)

[edfunderburk]

22 hours ago, nate82 said:

I think a Josh Smith for Peralta makes a lot of sense for both teams.  

I’m on board with this trade idea 

[patrickgpe]

Civale has requested a trade, but not sure you are getting much back. 

[wibadgers23]

31 minutes ago, patrickgpe said:

Civale has requested a trade, but not sure you are getting much back. 

Yeah basically a salary dump which would be fine I guess.  Would allow us to take on some salary at the trade deadline if we decide to be buyers.