Doesn't Woody Owe The Brewers?

[Turning2]

Everybody loves the fairytale story of his overcoming the massive shoulder injury. He's come back to initial success. Should he maintain that effectiveness for the rest of the season, he's going to be a prized free agent. I have no doubt he will jump to the highest bidder as soon as possible. But am I the only one that feels like that would be a grossly ungrateful "thanks suckers" move?  - "Thanks for letting me rehab on your very generous dime, that was swell of you, but I'm leaving regardless". Woody would possibly be out of pro ball if the Brewers hadn't offered him a really nice contract knowing they were paying for nothing for almost half of its duration. 

[wiguy94]

No Woodruff owes nothing to the Brewers. He had multiple suitors and chose to come back to Milwaukee. It's not like the Brewers threw him a bone when nobody else in MLB wanted him.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

The Brewers did the right thing. I am sure it engendered some goodwill. Maybe it "pays off" (part of the argument for paying Woody to rehab is that it shows a commitment to the player and shows the organization cares), but I wouldn't say Woody "owes" anything.

 

[homer]

20 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

No Woodruff owes nothing to the Brewers. He had multiple suitors and chose to come back to Milwaukee. It's not like the Brewers threw him a bone when nobody else in MLB wanted him.

I think he actually took less to stay here. 

[Outlander]

I was one of those that said the Brewers committed too much to Woodruff but no he doesn't owe them anything. He had other offers on the table. On the flip side they don't owe anything to him if they go with a qualifying offer that may cost him money and offers.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Outlander said:

if they go with a qualifying offer

30 mil seems like a lot to risk for one year of Woo, or a draft pick.  Think with his buyout on the mutual option its either re-sign longer term or adios.

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, BaseballEnjoyer said:

30 mil seems like a lot to risk for one year of Woo, or a draft pick.  Think with his buyout on the mutual option its either re-sign longer term or adios.

The buyout really doesn't matter after it happens. It's sunk cost at that point. Like Woodruff isn't going to accept the QO saying I'm getting $30M to stay in Milwaukee. 

[long ball]

The short answer is no. 
 

If he continues to pitch well the rest of the way, the Brewers should extend a qualifying offer though. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

The buyout really doesn't matter after it happens. It's sunk cost at that point. Like Woodruff isn't going to accept the QO saying I'm getting $30M to stay in Milwaukee. 

Yeah I get it, I'm just anticipating he isn't going to keep pitching at this level and the QO may actually be his best deal.  I hope I'm wrong and he is awesome enough to net us a pick, and get a big contract for himself.

[HarveysWBs]

1 hour ago, Turning2 said:

Everybody loves the fairytale story of his overcoming the massive shoulder injury. He's come back to initial success. Should he maintain that effectiveness for the rest of the season, he's going to be a prized free agent. I have no doubt he will jump to the highest bidder as soon as possible. But am I the only one that feels like that would be a grossly ungrateful "thanks suckers" move?  - "Thanks for letting me rehab on your very generous dime, that was swell of you, but I'm leaving regardless". Woody would possibly be out of pro ball if the Brewers hadn't offered him a really nice contract knowing they were paying for nothing for almost half of its duration. 

 

As usually happens in sports, as romantic as we all want to get about it, both sides did what was best for them. Woody probably took a bit of a haircut to stay in the home organization while he has surgery and rehab, and the Brewers made a dice roll on getting him back in the second half of 2025, perhaps knowing that pitching depth was going to be a little different with Burnes gone, and a QO always a nice bonus when Woodruff finally moved on to to richer pastures.

I love Woody, he’s been a fan favorite for a reason, and it really stinks not being able to play this game like a top of market team and keep all your arms regardless of health risks, but this is just how we have to play the game.

Having said that, no one should think any of the above applies to Craig “I know you because I am you” Counsell. Forget that guy. But Woody is just fine.

[markedman5]

No he doesn’t.

His injury came at the worst time for him…..he’s never had a long term deal…….not anyone’s fault…..just how it worked out.

He owes his family to do what he thinks is best.

[Turning2]

1 hour ago, wiguy94 said:

No Woodruff owes nothing to the Brewers. He had multiple suitors and chose to come back to Milwaukee. It's not like the Brewers threw him a bone when nobody else in MLB wanted him.

I don't recall reading of any other suitors lining up after he got hurt and MIL released him when his contract expired. Perhaps I missed it. My recollection was that he was dangling out there quite a while, and then MIL decided to try and make it work. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

He's made two MLB starts since the calendar rolled to 2024, and was paid to rehab an entire 1.5 seasons by Milwaukee.  There may have been other suitors, but it was far from a bidding war

Let's slow down with worrying about whether or not the Brewers should make Woodruff a QO or try to rush and extend him until we know his shoulder holds up well into September this season.

[wiguy94]

27 minutes ago, Turning2 said:

I don't recall reading of any other suitors lining up after he got hurt and MIL released him when his contract expired. Perhaps I missed it. My recollection was that he was dangling out there quite a while, and then MIL decided to try and make it work. 

You recall incorrectly. He's spoken about it publicly that he had multiple offers there at the end.

[liveforoctober]

What is the QO projected to be this year? Is it north of $22m?

I think it all will be in the details when it's all said and done. If Milwaukee only offers a QO and some other team offers him 3yr $75m ... what is he supposed to do?

If Milwaukee offers him 2 yr $44m and instead he accepts a deal elsewhere for 2 yr $45.5m ... then I will be scratching my head a bit wondering what is going on.

Woodruff needs to do what is best for he and his family. The Brewers need to do what's best for Milwaukee. Hopefully those two things are the same thing.

[Turning2]

14 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

You recall incorrectly. He's spoken about it publicly that he had multiple offers there at the end.

I've spent some time looking, haven't found anything to support that. That bolsters my view that he should be super grateful come contract talk time. Of course this all assumes that he is pitching as well come late Sept as he is now. 

[wiguy94]

6 minutes ago, Turning2 said:

I've spent some time looking, haven't found anything to support that. That bolsters my view that he should be super grateful come contract talk time. Of course this all assumes that he is pitching as well come late Sept as he is now. 

He was literally on Foul Territory within the last week and talked about having multiple offers. Question starts at 15:15.

Also here's a excerpt from an MLB.com article in February 2024 shortly after he signed where it was said he nearly signed with another team before Milwaukee made it's final pitch.

 

[Turning2]

3 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

He was literally on foul territory within the last week and talked about having multiple offers

May be true, may not. And if so, how did those offers stack up? I doubt anyone offered a better deal than MIL. As is said "he has to do what is best for his family". I don't necessarily agree with that after a guy has already made many millions of dollars. Even so, there is no reason to think he would have taken less then if he wouldn't take less now. 

I don't believe there was any sort of bidding war for him. Which leads me to conclude that MIL did him a BIG solid, and yes, he owes it to MIL. I'm not naive enough to believe he would take less to stick around. But a man with all too rare integrity who has already banked many, many millions would. 

[wiguy94]

Just now, Turning2 said:

May be true, may not. And if so, how did those offers stack up? I doubt anyone offered a better deal than MIL. As is said "he has to do what is best for his family". I don't necessarily agree with that after a guy has already made many millions of dollars. Even so, there is no reason to think he would have taken less then if he wouldn't take less now. 

I don't believe there was any sort of bidding war for him. Which leads me to conclude that MIL did him a BIG solid, and yes, he owes it to MIL. I'm not naive enough to believe he would take less to stick around. But a man with all too rare integrity who has already banked many, many millions would. 

So you're just going to ignore the facts presented to you, so you can just keep your original opinion? 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Turning2 said:

May be true, may not. And if so, how did those offers stack up? I doubt anyone offered a better deal than MIL. As is said "he has to do what is best for his family". I don't necessarily agree with that after a guy has already made many millions of dollars. Even so, there is no reason to think he would have taken less then if he wouldn't take less now. 

I don't believe there was any sort of bidding war for him. Which leads me to conclude that MIL did him a BIG solid, and yes, he owes it to MIL. I'm not naive enough to believe he would take less to stick around. But a man with all too rare integrity who has already banked many, many millions would. 

It goes both ways.  Maybe the Brewers did do him a solid.  Wouldn't that be owed to Woo when he came back and tried to pitch for the team in the post season on an already compromised shoulder?

[liveforoctober]

2 minutes ago, Turning2 said:

May be true, may not. And if so, how did those offers stack up? I doubt anyone offered a better deal than MIL. As is said "he has to do what is best for his family". I don't necessarily agree with that after a guy has already made many millions of dollars. Even so, there is no reason to think he would have taken less then if he wouldn't take less now. 

I don't believe there was any sort of bidding war for him. Which leads me to conclude that MIL did him a BIG solid, and yes, he owes it to MIL. I'm not naive enough to believe he would take less to stick around. But a man with all too rare integrity who has already banked many, many millions would. 

In a world where everyone's opinion is valid and matters... this is an incredibly terrible take.

[SF70]

If Woodruff finishes the year healthy we give him a QO. He likely turns it down and we get a top 35 pick in next years draft. Win win.

If he accepts the QO (unlikely if healthy) we get a stronger Woody, another offseason from his surgery, likely without an innings limit.. An ace for 1 year for what’s looking like the most talented Brewers team in many years.

[markedman5]

Woody strikes me as the least likely person to fabricate a story about how many offers he had.

There is a reason Mark A calls him one of his favorite people and why he is beloved in the brewers clubhouse and organization.

ps If you asked Mark or Matt I find it impossible to believe either one would say Woody owed the Brewers anything.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

IIRC, many on this board thought the Woody contract was a really bad for a small market team to offer at the time. There were legit concerns, and I think it was a tough call for the FO.

BUT plenty of us also felt that it was the right thing to do, even given the chance that Woody never fully recovered (and, hey we're only two MLB starts in). That determination was based on the idea that even a half year of good Woody might net enough WAR to justify the cost of the contract, even before you consider the added benefit of the goodwill and the team appreciating Woody's early-career, very economically advantage for the club, contributions.

I think this is a situation where both sides should feel really good about what they did. I don't think anyone owes or should expect anything moving forward, but I will say this:

I know Woody says he had multiple offers. I absolutely believe him. It's hard for me to see anyone paying THAT much more than 2yr/17.5, though, especially when you know one of those years is a total rehab year. I mean, maybe the Dodgers and Yankees can afford to spend 9 mil on zero production. But would they? In practice? I mean, why commit that much of your luxury tax space in a given year to a guy you are SURE will do nothing? Especially when you can just let some other team take a shot, see if he's good, and then offer him a boatload to take him away after you KNOW he's still got it? It doesn't make sense. And no smaller market is going to do that deal either, unless they have deep history with Woody.

All of which is to say, I don't think Woody gave the Brewers a hometown discount. The team stepped up and gave him, in the immortal words of Will Wade, a "strong-[keister] offer." I disagree with Turning's idea that Woody was lucky to get as much as he did, but I certainly buy the point that the Brewers committed to the guy in a way that demonstrates real belief and loyalty. The team made a hard choice and the right ethical choice if you ask me. It may even end up being the smart baseball choice too. I just wouldn't want to see the Brewers' role here reduced to some kind of "pity pick." No one's saying that, exactly, but I think maybe the team's commitment here might be being underrated by some. 

I have no idea what a 32-year-old Big Woo is getting on the open market. Hard to imagine much more than a 3-4 yr deal. I'd absolutely pay the guy 3/70 and feel fine about it. You'd be betting on the guy to be worth about 7 WAR over those three years. The QO will probably be what? 22-23 mil? I'd do that.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SF70 said:

If Woodruff finishes the year healthy we give him a QO. He likely turns it down and we get a top 35 pick in next years draft. Win win.

If he accepts the QO (unlikely if healthy) we get a stronger Woody, another offseason from his surgery, likely without an innings limit.. An ace for 1 year for what’s looking like the most talented Brewers team in many years.

Interesting part of this discussion to me.  Pivetta and Martinez from last year are two relevant case studies.  Martinez accepted his offer while Pivetta declined and accepted a 4 year 55 mil offer with San Diego.

Martinez 2024 33yo 142 ip 3.1 ERA

Pivetta 2024 31yo 145 ip 4.1 ERA

Martinez 2025 111 ip 4.7 ERA

Pivetta 2025 109 ip 2.8 ERA

Surface level numbers I know, but at this point its looking like Martinez made a sound financial decision while Pivetta did not.  Woody may not be averse to betting on himself if he does not receive a great offer in the offseason.  It just seems to me a team like the Brewers who operate around 120 mil budget that a QO of 20ish mil + 16mil in dead money is ALOT of payroll tied up in guys not playing for the team and one guy who is a big question mark.  It would be a pretty big risk imo to extend him that offer.