Game 13: Bears @ Packers - Sunday, Dec. 7th @ 3:25 PM

[BrewerFan]

1 hour ago, homer said:

absolutely sucks that in a wide open year the Packers lose Kraft and Wyatt for the playoffs.  I'm sure the Lions were saying something similar last season. 

IIRC, we set a record for most games lost by starters the year we won the SB with Rodgers...

 

[homer]

1 hour ago, BrewerFan said:

IIRC, we set a record for most games lost by starters the year we won the SB with Rodgers...

 

could be why they were 10 - 6 and a wild card team. I think they were fully healthy going into the playoffs though.

[BrewerFan]

2 hours ago, homer said:

could be why they were 10 - 6 and a wild card team. I think they were fully healthy going into the playoffs though.

They had a bunch of guys on IR that year. And it wasn't just starters, where they lost players, they lost the backups in a lot of cases. 

Finley, Grant(back to back 1250 yard seasons). Finley was... similar to Kraft on this team. 

Morgan Burnett, Nick Barnett... Mark Tauscher...Brad Jones started opposite Matthews, Poppinga was #3 edge, Neal was an edge still. 

But they had a great QB, a great DC and they had 4-5 really dangerous WRs who they could use to attack downfield.

[homer]

6 hours ago, BrewerFan said:

They had a bunch of guys on IR that year. And it wasn't just starters, where they lost players, they lost the backups in a lot of cases. 

Finley, Grant(back to back 1250 yard seasons). Finley was... similar to Kraft on this team. 

Morgan Burnett, Nick Barnett... Mark Tauscher...Brad Jones started opposite Matthews, Poppinga was #3 edge, Neal was an edge still. 

But they had a great QB, a great DC and they had 4-5 really dangerous WRs who they could use to attack downfield.

It's wide open. Anything can happen. They can beat any playoff team. My point is it sucks they are going to be without two of their best players. I don't think that's a controversial take and I don't think it's a knock on the guys whoare playing.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

8 hours ago, homer said:

could be why they were 10 - 6 and a wild card team. I think they were fully healthy going into the playoffs though.

Ryan Grant, Jermichael Finely, Brad Jones, Brady Poppinga, Nick Barnett, Mike Neal and Morgan Burnett were lost to IR that season. Al Harris never played and was released after coming off the PUP. Woodson got injured during the Super Bowl, too. They had a lot of magic that year finding diamonds in the rough that played huge roles. Starks, Crabtree, Shields, Bishop, the emergence of Nelson. They grabbed Pickett midyear off waivers and he forced the pick 6 Roethlisberger threw in the Super Bowl. 

[OldHeidelberg]

A lot being made on NFL network this morning about the MLF - Johnson handshake after the game, it was very quick with few words. We will hear a lot about it in a couple of weeks I am sure, seems more like Johnson being sore loser to me. 

[Underachiever]

4 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

A lot being made on NFL network this morning about the MLF - Johnson handshake after the game, it was very quick with few words. We will hear a lot about it in a couple of weeks I am sure, seems more like Johnson being sore loser to me. 

Seriously? You'd think they'd have better things to talk about. If I was a Bears fan (**shudder**), I would have no issue with my coach appearing to be a "sore loser" in a postgame handshake. He didn't go full Juwan Howard or anything. 

I'd love to have another John Chaney/Calipari meltdown, though. That was fun stuff. "I'll kill you!"

 

[nate82]

1 hour ago, OldHeidelberg said:

MLF - Johnson handshake after the game, it was very quick with few words. We will hear a lot about it in a couple of weeks I am sure, seems more like Johnson being sore loser to me. 

Are they supposed to hug have a long conversation make out and then profess their love to the world all while putting on a whole song and dance production?  Seriously?  Lombardi’s handshakes were quick and to the point was he a sore loser? 

A quick handshake and few words sounds like your normal end of the game meeting between two coaches.  Unless the coaches are friends or know each other personally why would it be anything but quick?  Sounds like you are looking for something to be mad about.

 

[Team Canada]

1 hour ago, OldHeidelberg said:

seems more like Johnson being sore loser to me. 

If you watch the video it's not like MLF was hanging out wanting to chat and Johnson blew him off. The whole narrative leading up to the game was just clickbait. They meet in 2 weeks, there's no need for an extended conversation.

[OldHeidelberg]

24 minutes ago, nate82 said:

Are they supposed to hug have a long conversation make out and then profess their love to the world all while putting on a whole song and dance production?  Seriously?  Lombardi’s handshakes were quick and to the point was he a sore loser? 

A quick handshake and few words sounds like your normal end of the game meeting between two coaches.  Unless the coaches are friends or know each other personally why would it be anything but quick?  Sounds like you are looking for something to be mad about.

 

I am not mad about it, my team won. 🙂

[OldHeidelberg]

9 minutes ago, Team Canada said:

If you watch the video it's not like MLF was hanging out wanting to chat and Johnson blew him off. The whole narrative leading up to the game was just clickbait. They meet in 2 weeks, there's no need for an extended conversation.

For sure NFL Network just making something out of it to drive ratings for 2 weeks from now., it's sort of their job Maybe it's just MLF and Johnson just stoking the rivalry, I don't know, didn't notice it until they talked about it this morning. It wasn't the usual post game handshake, Johnson isn't the first new Bears head coach to hype beating the Packers as big goal coming in. We will see if he has any better luck.  

[young guns]

Ok, I've seen some discussion this morning on it and I was playing catchup so didn't spend much time while watch the game to think about it, but on the challenged catch/fumble in the first after the love pick, should that have been ruled an interception?

It seems like it to me.  First it was ruled a catch and thus ball didn't hit the ground, second there was nothing shown on broadcast that the ball hit the ground (the one possibility is that there was an angle that was never shown, but the replay people had it), third Williams knocks the ball out of the receivers control and comes up with it.

Add that up and it feels like replay, possibly, can't say the ball hit the ground, but can say receiver didn't have control, and that Williams is the first to have possesion so interception.

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, homer said:

It's wide open. Anything can happen. They can beat any playoff team. My point is it sucks they are going to be without two of their best players. I don't think that's a controversial take and I don't think it's a knock on the guys whoare playing.

Yeah, of course it sucks. I just meant we can still win, but... the way Kraft just kept getting better and as important as Wyatt was, Kraft at least will ALMOST certainly be back at 100% next year(and even better if he follows Watson's rehab schedule). The broken tibia and torn ligaments with Wyatt is... more concerning. 

You know there's going to be some season ending injuries every year. You just hope it's not to a couple of their most valuable players. This year it was(as well as last year with Watson). 

The Bakh injury may be the most consequential one we've EVER had.

 

[kestrel79]

Do any of the talking head shows talk about Parsons getting held every play? I get the whole rip move thing, but even with that it just seems a little extreme now and there should at least be a couple calls a game.

This doesn't bode well for the playoffs when the refs usually "let them play" more.

[adambr2]

Count me in as the “who gives a crap about the handshake.”

It was freezing. They see each other again in 2 weeks. No one got disrespected or snubbed.

There was no reason for anything more than a “good game” and move on.

[BrewerFan]

3 hours ago, Underachiever said:

Seriously? You'd think they'd have better things to talk about. If I was a Bears fan (**shudder**), I would have no issue with my coach appearing to be a "sore loser" in a postgame handshake. He didn't go full Juwan Howard or anything. 

I'd love to have another John Chaney/Calipari meltdown, though. That was fun stuff. "I'll kill you!"

I REALLY hate saying this, but if I was a Bears fan... as much as it sucks to lose again to the Packers in a big game, I would be... so confident about the future of my franchise.

Ben Johnson is a bit of a dick. I don't know if that's "unacceptable," but it feels like mostly adults here. 

I'd be perfectly fine with that being my coach. MLF plays a nice guy, but on that handshake, he didn't seem interested in a warm conversation.

You see each other in 2 weeks, that'll be for the division(this was to pretty much ensure the Bears the division unless they have a meltdown). 

 

But Johnson has that team playing so hard. They would have folded any other year. The year we won our last SB, it was a 14-0 lead when the Bears just quit... mostly. We played real conservative, it was cold, miserable. The Bears made it a game off an Urlacher pick but it was never really in doubt. This game was in doubt.

They've definitely got that franchise turning(turned?) around and headed in the right direction. I'm actually... almost glad they're not terrible this year as that's kinda how the Lions got so good so quick, they had those picks from the Rams and still sucked and got Sewell. But if they get a LT and then just keep making smart investments on that OL, front 7, that's gonna be a Ravens-Steelers like battle for the foreseeable future. 

[BrewerFan]

15 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

Do any of the talking head shows talk about Parsons getting held every play? I get the whole rip move thing, but even with that it just seems a little extreme now and there should at least be a couple calls a game.

This doesn't bode well for the playoffs when the refs usually "let them play" more.

I've heard it on several shows, but it's kinda like the All Pro tax. That's what it feels like. He's too fast and they can't call every time he gets hooked. 

In fairness, some edge rushers kinda rip through and then hold-on like it's the NBA and they're trying to draw a foul, but... obviously not Micah as he's so fast and relentless and he's never crying for calls. 

 

But yeah, I've heard it. Everyone's seen it. Gary has also been held quite a few times and it's not called.

 

[Joseph Zarr]

A day after and I'm still in disbelief they overturned Williams INT and Musgrave's grab. Was there any shred of real concrete evidence either ball in fact hit the ground? It's encouraging to see the coaching staff now sending Musgrave on these deeper routes more often. It is his specialty. It is where he can really impact games. That catch was incredible and I still believe that was a catch. Am I just missing it?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

35 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Count me in as the “who gives a crap about the handshake.”

It was freezing. They see each other again in 2 weeks. No one got disrespected or snubbed.

There was no reason for anything more than a “good game” and move on.

I couldn't care less about it but you'll never get me to believe that it wasn't directly influenced by the "I enjoyed beating him twice" line. MLF doesn't like him, I wouldn't like him, and it was clear with that no-shake handshake. MLF is playing it beautifully as if the guy isn't worth a thought, but he obviously thinks he's a douche, which you probably are if you're going out of your way to name drop a guy who doesn't know you on any level. 

I think the standard across the league is you stop and embrace for 3-5 seconds and whisper a sweet nothing. They definitely wanted nothing to do with each other. 

 

[OldHeidelberg]

 

10 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

A day after and I'm still in disbelief they overturned Williams INT and Musgrave's grab. Was there any shred of real concrete evidence either ball in fact hit the ground? It's encouraging to see the coaching staff now sending Musgrave on these deeper routes more often. It is his specialty. It is where he can really impact games. That catch was incredible and I still believe that was a catch. Am I just missing it?

They only showed the relevant replay on the Musgrave catch like once and sometimes I will have to see it 3 times before seeing the ball move so I am not sure. It didn't look like it should be overturned on that first look though but someone else here thought it moved. 

[CheezWizHed]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Zarr said:

A day after and I'm still in disbelief they overturned Williams INT and Musgrave's grab. Was there any shred of real concrete evidence either ball in fact hit the ground? It's encouraging to see the coaching staff now sending Musgrave on these deeper routes more often. It is his specialty. It is where he can really impact games. That catch was incredible and I still believe that was a catch. Am I just missing it?

Both of them were pretty clearly in the gray of "what is a catch?".   William's fumble recovery was more surprising because no one was doubting the catch initially.  Kind of stinks when they review something we didn't ask them to review... 

Musgrave... it seemed like while the ball was moving, he still had his hand under it... but clearly was not clear-cut catch. Nice play regardless.  I was encouraged by Musgrave in this game.  We need a TE to take up some of Kraft's pass catching responsibilities.

39 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

Count me in as the “who gives a crap about the handshake.”

It was freezing. They see each other again in 2 weeks. No one got disrespected or snubbed.

There was no reason for anything more than a “good game” and move on.

 Yeah, I'm here too.  If anything MLF was running off while Johnson stood there. Neither looked like they wanted more than the formal handshake.  Not everyone is or needs to be "buddies"... that doesn't mean there is disrespect there. 

[Joseph Zarr]

3 minutes ago, OldHeidelberg said:

 

They only showed the relevant replay on the Musgrave catch like once and sometimes I will have to see it 3 times before seeing the ball move so I am not sure. It didn't look like it should be overturned on that first look though but someone else here thought it moved. 

I saw it move after he went to the ground but that was when the ball moved on his body. Perhaps it indeed moved or hit the ground to bounce back to that position? But, yeah, I guess not enough looks at it.

[CheezWizHed]

The last few games has been very encouraging with Love vs the blitz.  Early in the season, he was looking more like a deer in the headlights when blitzes came, but he is clearly adjusting to it now.  The OL has certainly improved blitz pickup (thus making some blitzes a "clean pocket throw" with fewer defenders covering receivers), but I'm even more encouraged by the plays where Love has a free-runner and he knows exactly where to deliver the ball. 

One of the few intelligent additions Tom Brady had to the broadcast yesterday was when there was a LB blitz with a clear path to Love, yet he threw the ball right back into the vacated coverage spot to complete a pass to a TE.  Love is clearly more decisive when blitzed (the second Watson TD was another example).  He has a better feel for where it is coming from and where to attack it.  

That is often the difference between good and great QBs. I railed on it early in the season, so I have to point it out when he fixed it too. 

[young guns]

The Musgrave play I'm ok with.  He kind of catches it in his hands and forarms.  As he's going to the ground he was it and the ball hits the ground and he slides onto his back and the ball starts sneaking out of his forearm grip until he just has it by like the tip.  So to me that means he does not have full control while the ball was touching the ground and its incomplete. 

[OldHeidelberg]

4 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

The last few games has been very encouraging with Love vs the blitz.  Early in the season, he was looking more like a deer in the headlights when blitzes came, but he is clearly adjusting to it now.  The OL has certainly improved blitz pickup (thus making some blitzes a "clean pocket throw" with fewer defenders covering receivers), but I'm even more encouraged by the plays where Love has a free-runner and he knows exactly where to deliver the ball. 

One of the few intelligent additions Tom Brady had to the broadcast yesterday was when there was a LB blitz with a clear path to Love, yet he threw the ball right back into the vacated coverage spot to complete a pass to a TE.  Love is clearly more decisive when blitzed (the second Watson TD was another example).  He has a better feel for where it is coming from and where to attack it.  

That is often the difference between good and great QBs. I railed on it early in the season, so I have to point it out when he fixed it too. 

Love has been really good, we probably don't give him enough credit here because we get too focused on the few mistakes he still makes. If there are a half dozen great and a half dozen good QB's in the league he is like at #7 and rising. I don't know if it was during the broadcast yesterday but someone said he had the best QB rating out of a clean picket in the NFL and it wasn't close. He is deadly on throws outside the numbers. The poor accuracy on deep throws we complained about his first year have really been cleaned up. He gets blitzed and throws to whoever has the safety covering him. He has tremendous talent and is still improving, a big reason for optimism this postseason for sure.