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Posted
1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

That trade didn’t make much sense at the time and looks much worse now.

I can forgive the fact that no one could have seen Wiemer start to figure it out, although let’s be honest, if he was on the roster, he would have been playing a lot for us the last 6 weeks.

Junis was good at the time we traded him and has continued to be nothing but good since.

I have zero regret over Joey Wiemer. Good for him for maybe turning it around with his 4th organization. Maybe. We'll see how the season goes. He had to land with a team that was going to give him playing time in the first place and that team was the one he's now on.

Montas was pretty much a replacement level guy as a Brewer. Meh. Junis has been fine but is also on his 4th team in the last 4 seasons.

If the Brewers had wanted Wiemer back as recently as this offseason they could have had him at the cost of a waiver claim.

(EDIT: Washington very likely had higher priority, so the Brewers would have had to work out a nominal return to Miami in a trade.)

Jakob Junis signed with Texas as a free agent so he was available too. So nothing was lost. They're just guys going through the MLB roster churn.

  • Like 2
Posted
1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

That trade didn’t make much sense at the time and looks much worse now.

I can forgive the fact that no one could have seen Wiemer start to figure it out, although let’s be honest, if he was on the roster, he would have been playing a lot for us the last 6 weeks.

Junis was good at the time we traded him and has continued to be nothing but good since.

From 2024 to present Brewers outfielders are 5th in MLB with 21.4 WAR. There wouldn't have been as much playing time available for Joey here as there has been in the less successful organizations he has cycled through since being traded and then DFA'd three different times.

At the time we traded Junis he had a nice looking 2.42 ERA but a much more concerning 4.40 FIP. Based on leverage stats, Junis (1.26 gmLI) was 6th on the bullpen depth charts behind Megill (1.95), Hudson (1.52), Koenig (1.52), Peguero (1.48), and Payamps (1.47) with Milner (1.12) and Uribe (1.12) just behind him.

Thru the trade on July 28th the Brewers bullpen was 2nd in MLB in both WPA (+8.19) and rWAR (7.1). After the the trade thru the end of the season the Brewers bullpen posted +4.95 WPA (1st) and 4.4 rWAR (2nd) so Junis wasn't missed the rest of the year.

Junis got a $3M buyout after 2024, signed for $4.5M in 2025 and proceeded to pitch 66 IP with a 73 ERA- | 83 FIP-. In 2025 the Brewers paid Grant Anderson $750K for 69 IP of 77 ERA- | 93 FIP-. Similar production for almost $7M less dollars.

One of the main concerns around the Brewers at the time of the trade was that their rotation had thrown the fewest innings in MLB so they traded from areas of depth OF/RP to address that issue by acquiring a SP in Montas who ate up 57 IP (2nd on the team, two fewer than Peralta) over the remainder of the season 

  • Like 2
Posted
4 hours ago, adambr2 said:

That trade didn’t make much sense at the time and looks much worse now.

I can forgive the fact that no one could have seen Wiemer start to figure it out, although let’s be honest, if he was on the roster, he would have been playing a lot for us the last 6 weeks.

Junis was good at the time we traded him and has continued to be nothing but good since.

Junis was not going to have his mutual option picked up for year 2 in Milwaukee. He was a rental. Wiemer is overperforming his xwOBA by over 100 points and has a .500 BABIP with a 38% K-rate. Does not seem like his early season success is going to be something that gets sustained

  • Like 1
Posted

Wiemer has a BABIP of .500 this year with an oba of .413. Under the hood, his xwoba is  .298. Last year his xwoba was .305. It seems Wiemer didn't figure anything out and he is just riding a small sample hot streak.

He's also freshly available in my fantasy league. Someone else must be seeing the same thing I am.

Posted

The amount of blowback in here when anyone suggests that Frankie Montas was not that great of an acquisition, is always something to behold. He was modestly better for us than the complete liability he has become since then, I’ll grant that.

Its whatever, I’ve never said it was that big of a deal, and I’ve transparently said numerous times that Wiemer could have been acquired by anyone since then. I just never liked Montas much, and didn’t like the deal. It was definitely not one of Arnold’s better ones. Obviously he’s had a good track record overall, 

I think we can certainly agree though, that he would have been playing over Greg Jones and Blake Perkins this season.

Posted
35 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

The amount of blowback in here when anyone suggests that Frankie Montas was not that great of an acquisition, is always something to behold. He was modestly better for us than the complete liability he has become since then, I’ll grant that.

Its whatever, I’ve never said it was that big of a deal, and I’ve transparently said numerous times that Wiemer could have been acquired by anyone since then. I just never liked Montas much, and didn’t like the deal. It was definitely not one of Arnold’s better ones. Obviously he’s had a good track record overall, 

I think we can certainly agree though, that he would have been playing over Greg Jones and Blake Perkins this season.

This is some generous slanting on your part. I don’t think anyone has said or will ever say the Montas trade was a great trade so the idea you’re getting push back because you don’t think it’s great isn’t accurate.

You got push back because you said it didn’t make sense at the time and it looks much worse now. That pushback happened because the trade made sense at the time. Brewers needed SP depth and Junis wasn’t stretched out. Wiemer getting off to a fluky hot start multiple years later also doesn’t make it look any worse.

  • Like 4
Posted
51 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

This is some generous slanting on your part. I don’t think anyone has said or will ever say the Montas trade was a great trade so the idea you’re getting push back because you don’t think it’s great isn’t accurate.

You got push back because you said it didn’t make sense at the time and it looks much worse now. That pushback happened because the trade made sense at the time. Brewers needed SP depth and Junis wasn’t stretched out. Wiemer getting off to a fluky hot start multiple years later also doesn’t make it look any worse.

No, it didn’t make sense to me at the time and I said so at the time. Maybe it made sense to you.

Maybe I just really didn’t like Montas. He was not the only SP option out there.

It's also a little biased to call Wiemer’s start “fluky” when we just don’t know yet. You’re just looking to downplay it without any real reason to do so yet.

I really don’t care whether Wiemer keeps it up, as I’ve said, any team could have claimed him, so I’m not claiming it was some awful oversight. But you’re simply not giving any credit where it’s due.

Posted
7 minutes ago, adambr2 said:

It's also a little biased to call Wiemer’s start “fluky” when we just don’t know yet. You’re just looking to downplay it without any real reason to do so yet.

The 38% K-rate, .500 BABIP, and sub .300 xwOBA are all real reasons to downplay Wiemer’s start to the year. 

  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, adambr2 said:

The amount of blowback in here when anyone suggests that Frankie Montas was not that great of an acquisition, is always something to behold. He was modestly better for us than the complete liability he has become since then, I’ll grant that.

Its whatever, I’ve never said it was that big of a deal, and I’ve transparently said numerous times that Wiemer could have been acquired by anyone since then. I just never liked Montas much, and didn’t like the deal. It was definitely not one of Arnold’s better ones. Obviously he’s had a good track record overall, 

I think we can certainly agree though, that he would have been playing over Greg Jones and Blake Perkins this season.

Montas took the ball every 5th day, ate innings at the back of the rotation and kept them up in every game but one. And for that production they gave up a renal middle reliever who had missed three months with an injury and a journeyman outfielder. How is it anything but a huge win from the Brewers prospective?

  • Like 4
Posted
13 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Montas took the ball every 5th day, ate innings at the back of the rotation and kept them up in every game but one. And for that production they gave up a renal middle reliever who had missed three months with an injury and a journeyman outfielder. How is it anything but a huge win from the Brewers prospective?

He was horridly inconsistent. He didn’t lock down a rotation spot as expected. He had an ERA over 4.50 and was a below replacement level player.

The strikeout prowess was still there. That was the positive. 

Surely we had higher expectations than taking the ball every 5th day.

Also — giving up 9 hits and 3 ER in 5 innings is keeping your team in the team ? Going 4 innings and giving up 3 earned is keeping your team in the game ? Talk about a low bar.

Posted
9 hours ago, adambr2 said:

He was horridly inconsistent. He didn’t lock down a rotation spot as expected. He had an ERA over 4.50 and was a below replacement level player.

The strikeout prowess was still there. That was the positive. 

Surely we had higher expectations than taking the ball every 5th day.

Also — giving up 9 hits and 3 ER in 5 innings is keeping your team in the team ? Going 4 innings and giving up 3 earned is keeping your team in the game ? Talk about a low bar.

He pitched at least 5 innings in 8 of his first 9 starts.  How is that "horridly inconsistent"?

I know that ERA isn't the perfect stat, but since you brought up earned runs, when the Brewers acquired him he had a 5.01 ERA.  Nine starts later his ERA was 4.50.  His ERA over his first 9 starts with the Brewers was 3.55.  How is that "below replacement"?

Don't let his last two starts distort what was a very solid and needed acquisition.

  • Like 2
Posted

Looking at Montas' career numbers I'd say the Brewers got what they expected from him. A near replacement level starting pitcher to fill a spot in their rotation. Likely they hoped for him to perform a little above that but it looks like he did about as expected.

Would I call it a huge win? No but I think it fulfilled their expectations. They got exactly the player they traded for.

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