Wisconsin Football 2022- The Jim Leonhard Show ends, the Luke Fickell era begins

[wildcat83]

Is this on an alt right now while the other game is in OT?

[yourout]

Packer like punt return.

[DuWayne Steurer]

playing a team that can't move the ball against us and making dumb dumb dumb personal fouls.

[valpocrewsader]

1 minute ago, DuWayne Steurer said:

playing a team that can't move the ball against us and making dumb dumb dumb personal fouls.

That last one was a crap call. Undersized player made it look worse than it was. 

[valpocrewsader]

Did we ever even see a replay of the earlier roughing the passer penalty? 

[HarryDoyle]

Shades of James Harrison!!!

[DuWayne Steurer]

4 minutes ago, valpocrewsader said:

That last one was a crap call. Undersized player made it look worse than it was. 

they've made it clear for years now they're gonna call the late hits especially on qbs. 

[DuWayne Steurer]

Really nice blocking on the return for torch!

[LouisEly]

Already scored one more TD than Iowa scored against South Dakota State.

[LouisEly]

Let's move this over to a game thread so to keep this thread for the full season discussion.

[valpocrewsader]

7 minutes ago, DuWayne Steurer said:

they've made it clear for years now they're gonna call the late hits especially on qbs. 

I'm out somewhere and watching it without sound, so maybe I missed something, but I was referring to the late hit on the sidelines against a WR (?) ... wasn't the QB.

[stalton]

Badgers stomp on Illinois State and get rewarded with going....down a spot to 19? I know the AP ranking is beyond messed up but come on. Arkansas moves up 3 spots just for beating a then 23rd ranked Cinci. It wasn't even an upset. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

21 minutes ago, stalton said:

Badgers stomp on Illinois State and get rewarded with going....down a spot to 19? I know the AP ranking is beyond messed up but come on. Arkansas moves up 3 spots just for beating a then 23rd ranked Cinci. It wasn't even an upset. 

Early season rankings are heavily influenced by each writer's expectations. Writers who were lower on Wisconsin to start the season likely aren't going to change their tune after beating Illinois State, but writers who were lower on Arkansas, for whom the Cinci game was an upset, probably moved them up. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

11 hours ago, stalton said:

Badgers stomp on Illinois State and get rewarded with going....down a spot to 19? I know the AP ranking is beyond messed up but come on. Arkansas moves up 3 spots just for beating a then 23rd ranked Cinci. It wasn't even an upset. 

Just follow the conferences various teams are in - if a team is from the SEC, pollsters do all kinds of gymnastics to get and keep them in the top 25 early in the year and skew schedule strength leading up to the start of conference play so it's more difficult for good teams from other conference to leapfrog them when they start beating up on each other in October.   In the AP poll, an unranked Florida team coming off a 7 loss season with a new coach jumped to 12th!! over a pile of teams that won their first game after beating what was likely an overrated Utah team at home (The Swamp in early September is a rough place for anyone to earn a road win for a non-conference opponent, no matter how good or bad the Gators are).  Oregon did get drubbed by Georgia, but getting thumped in essentially a road game against one of the best two teams in the country Week 1 shouldn't lead to them dropping entirely out of the top 25 after being ranked 11th in the preseason poll - that's exactly what happened to them because they're not an SEC team.

It'll never happen, but there shouldn't be any preseason polling done that establishes a pecking order for the CFP committee. 

[areacodes]

13 hours ago, stalton said:

Badgers stomp on Illinois State and get rewarded with going....down a spot to 19? I know the AP ranking is beyond messed up but come on. Arkansas moves up 3 spots just for beating a then 23rd ranked Cinci. It wasn't even an upset. 

Their points increased from 365 to 476, so it had more to do with Arkansas and Florida moving up than what the Badgers did against ISU.

They moved up 2 spots in the coaches poll with a similar increase in points (369 to 495) but Florida didn’t pass us and Oregon/Texas fell below us.  BTW, I’m not sure how somebody actually gave Texas a #1 vote in the Preseason poll.

[CheeseheadInQC]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Just follow the conferences various teams are in - if a team is from the SEC, pollsters do all kinds of gymnastics to get and keep them in the top 25 early in the year and skew schedule strength leading up to the start of conference play so it's more difficult for good teams from other conference to leapfrog them when they start beating up on each other in October.   In the AP poll, an unranked Florida team coming off a 7 loss season with a new coach jumped to 12th!! over a pile of teams that won their first game after beating what was likely an overrated Utah team at home (The Swamp in early September is a rough place for anyone to earn a road win for a non-conference opponent, no matter how good or bad the Gators are).  Oregon did get drubbed by Georgia, but getting thumped in essentially a road game against one of the best two teams in the country Week 1 shouldn't lead to them dropping entirely out of the top 25 after being ranked 11th in the preseason poll - that's exactly what happened to them because they're not an SEC team.

It'll never happen, but there shouldn't be any preseason polling done that establishes a pecking order for the CFP committee. 

I know someone who has an AP vote. There is no organized SEC conspiracy. Also, the CFP poll has more influence on the AP poll than the other way around. The CFP does its own thing, then the AP poll will typically have some teams “adjusted” the next week where the CFP disagreed with them.

There are pluses and minuses to having working journalists do the voting. On the plus side, they are trained to set fandom aside, and most that I have met take this seriously (and are very critical of those who don’t). On the minus side, many have to cover a game and then churn 3-4 stories on the team they cover, limiting the number of actual games they can watch on Saturdays, so records and scores often seem to weigh heavier for a lot of it than the eye test simply because of time constraints.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Also, the CFP poll has more influence on the AP poll than the other way around. 

Once it starts getting posted in late October or early November, sure - there's no CFP poll out right now though.  The AP and Coaches polls set the baseline from which the CFP committee starts their evaluations for whomever fills the last slot or two outside of Alabama until they lose twice, and that pecking order begins with what are pointless preseason polls that definitely do have a bias towards the SEC.  I get that the very top of the SEC (Alabama, Georgia) should be considered among the best 5 teams in the country every year until onfield results consistently prove otherwise...but nobody who follows football needs to have to look at a poll in September to know that's the case.  

On the minus side, many have to cover a game and then churn 3-4 stories on the team they cover, limiting the number of actual games they can watch on Saturdays, so records and scores often seem to weigh heavier for a lot of it than the eye test simply because of time constraints.

Which is exactly why polls done before all the teams have a handful of games played and even open up in conference play are pointless, and tend to favor schools from a conference like the SEC where college football rules and sports journalists in that region are going to prop up mid tier schools in the rankings because they are in the same conference as Alabama and Georgia.

[UpandIn]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:23 PM, CheeseheadInQC said:

I know someone who has an AP vote. There is no organized SEC conspiracy. Also, the CFP poll has more influence on the AP poll than the other way around. The CFP does its own thing, then the AP poll will typically have some teams “adjusted” the next week where the CFP disagreed with them.

There are pluses and minuses to having working journalists do the voting. On the plus side, they are trained to set fandom aside, and most that I have met take this seriously (and are very critical of those who don’t). On the minus side, many have to cover a game and then churn 3-4 stories on the team they cover, limiting the number of actual games they can watch on Saturdays, so records and scores often seem to weigh heavier for a lot of it than the eye test simply because of time constraints.

Yean, I don't buy that either. The SEC is just ridiculous in it's talent. LSU can have a top 10 recruiting class a couple years after winning the NC, have 20 NFL caliber players on that squad and not be one of the top 8 teams in the league. 

Would anyone be shocked to see one of 4-5 teams ASIDE from 'Bama or UGA playing in the CFP Championship Game?

Florida, LSU, A&M(who's been outspending and recruiting ALMOST everyone), Auburn, 'Ole Miss, Miss State, Tenn...they're consistently in the top ~20 in recruiting. Hell, give the Badgers the skill players Arkansas gets and they'd pretty easily slide into the #3/4 position in the B1G behind OSU, Mich and PSU. 

They beat each other up, they lose bowl games because they've lose players to the draft. The better schools, including UGA lose elite recruits because they can't win a spot there....but they can go to OSU and become Justin Fields.

It's like the B1G in Wrestling. They're SO far ahead of the next best conference, they could create 2 conferences and they'd still be the deepest, the most dominant and get a couple teams to the CFP.

 

With Tx, Okie on the way,  and then Miami and their 20M annual NIL money, Clemson, FSU, UNC and Va Tech likely behind them(With ND and Oregon the next two big "targets") it's going to take a significantly larger commitment from teams like Wisconsin or most B1G teams to try and compete. 

 

Good news, Wisconsin has a group of alum, led by CEOs, the Watts, Wilson and others stepping in and starting...the Varsity Club(IIRC) to help with recruiting and keeping Wisconsin competitive. 

 

So...with all that in mind, it's hard to buy into an SEC conspiracy rather than just the fact that the SEC is just that superior. 

 

[UpandIn]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:39 PM, Fear The Chorizo said:

Once it starts getting posted in late October or early November, sure - there's no CFP poll out right now though.  The AP and Coaches polls set the baseline from which the CFP committee starts their evaluations for whomever fills the last slot or two outside of Alabama until they lose twice, and that pecking order begins with what are pointless preseason polls that definitely do have a bias towards the SEC.  I get that the very top of the SEC (Alabama, Georgia) should be considered among the best 5 teams in the country every year until onfield results consistently prove otherwise...but nobody who follows football needs to have to look at a poll in September to know that's the case.  

Based on what? Usually by the time the CFP poll comes out, teams have separated themselves. I don't think it has anything to do with pre-season polls by then. 

They definitely do tend to favor the SEC. The question is if that is unfounded or unfair. I would(and did) argue it is not. It's completely fair.

They've earned that benefit of the doubt.

On 9/8/2022 at 12:39 PM, Fear The Chorizo said:

Which is exactly why polls done before all the teams have a handful of games played and even open up in conference play are pointless, and tend to favor schools from a conference like the SEC where college football rules and sports journalists in that region are going to prop up mid tier schools in the rankings because they are in the same conference as Alabama and Georgia.

Not much other than for Fans to talk about. 

But again, those polls don't determine anything. They don't factor into SOS, they do anything OTHER than...by the time the first CFP poll comes out, they point out the obvious. 

Last year the CFP were wildly different than the AP Poll. Cincy was #2 in the AP coming off 1 score wins vs Tulane and Navy(IIRC) and were #8 in the CFP playoffs. 

 

It was on thing when two teams played in the NC, but with 4 teams, when has the AP or Coaches poll...particularly the pre-season or week 1 polls influenced the CFP polls to any significant degree?

The three biggest "snubs," in the CFP era have been TCU that lost 62-59 to Baylor(so...not really a defensive juggernaut), the Ohio State team that got beaten by like 30 to Purdue relatively late in the season...and then the 13-1 Badgers that played 2 ranked teams and I REALLY doubt any Badgers fan would argue they should have been in there over Alabama(which, just looking at that Alabama team, they had De'Vonta Smith, Henry Ruggs and Jerry Jeudy as their backups. 3 RBs went to the NFL that year, two QBs starting in the NFL. Minkah Fitzpatrick, Trevon Diggs(I know, he's overrated, but 11 picks). A DL that if they were together in the NFL would arguably be the best, OL full of NFL players in their 3 deep...and that was not a great Alabama team.

 

 

Point is, the CFP is getting it right. The AP polls or the coaches polls, they're not the problem. 

[UpandIn]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:17 AM, areacodes said:

Their points increased from 365 to 476, so it had more to do with Arkansas and Florida moving up than what the Badgers did against ISU.

They moved up 2 spots in the coaches poll with a similar increase in points (369 to 495) but Florida didn’t pass us and Oregon/Texas fell below us.  BTW, I’m not sure how somebody actually gave Texas a #1 vote in the Preseason poll.

I just don't see this as a big deal. You schedule an FCS in Week 1 as a premiere program...and it wasn't even a good FCS team.

Illinois State was a 4 win team last year...they beat the 1 Win Butler, 1 win Eastern Illinios.

So yeah, Florida beating the 7th ranked team in the Country and Arkansas beating a team that was in the CFP last year...it hardly seems like a reach that they should be ranked ahead of us at this point.

 

We'll have ample opportunity to move up in the polls. I just...can't get mad that we played a glorified scrimmage and two teams that played legitimate teams win and passed us up. 

[Fear The Chorizo]

...and then the 13-1 Badgers that played 2 ranked teams and I REALLY doubt any Badgers fan would argue they should have been in there over Alabama(which, just looking at that Alabama team, they had De'Vonta Smith, Henry Ruggs and Jerry Jeudy as their backups. 3 RBs went to the NFL that year, two QBs starting in the NFL. Minkah Fitzpatrick, Trevon Diggs(I know, he's overrated, but 11 picks). A DL that if they were together in the NFL would arguably be the best, OL full of NFL players in their 3 deep...and that was not a great Alabama team.

I agree with all of this....but then this is also the reason why college football has become much less entertaining to follow for 90+% of the country.  That year's Alabama team wasn't considered a great team by their standards but still had a complete NFL roster.  Even a decade or so ago, at least every conference (including the Pac 12 and Big East) had at least one juggernaut program that was a draw for the very best players from all over the country, and there was at least a question as to who the very best few teams would be each year based on previous graduations/jumps to the NFL.  Even the juggernaut programs rotated supremacy in their own conference because recruiting and resources were spread much more evenly.  Now college football has essentially evolved into arguing which Alabama player will win the Heisman and if any team is capable of beating the Crimson Tide when they have an entire roster of 5-star recruits.  They're an NFL futures pro bowl roster every single year.  With how the committee is structured to put "the 4 best teams in the playoff" each year, absent key injuries to Alabama they're an auto bid every year without even having to play a game.  Programs like Georgia, Clemson, and OSU resemble what the very best programs looked like 15-20 years ago, where they always can reload but will have the occasional 2 or 3 loss season in a down year for them.  

I think the only reason I'm for expanding the CFP to 12 teams is to at least give more teams a shot at making a run for a title and making Alabama play more top out of conference opponents to get into their annual national title game spot.  I'm not saying it will change the outcome at all, but at least there's more 'any given saturday' potential outcomes in the actual playoff format to knock them off.

[Jim French Stepstool]

7 hours ago, UpandIn said:

 

 

So...with all that in mind, it's hard to buy into an SEC conspiracy rather than just the fact that the SEC is just that superior. 

 

A lot of those schools also have the experience advantage of having had a pay structure for the players in place for a long time before it became legal through NIL.

[AKCheesehead]

I see Bucky is 19 point dogs this week at OSU.  Hopefully tomorrow they can find a way to cost the ohio betters.

[RedStickBrew]

19 points seems like a lot. Been a while since this program has had a really big win against a top tier team. OSU offense scares me against our under-manned secondary but if they can keep it close, who knows?

[Oxy]

I would normally expect a 20+ point blow-out here, but something just feels off.  OSU struggled against a mediocre Notre Dame team earlier this year.  Other than OSUs WR corps vs our secondary, we actually match-up really well against them style wise.  We've already had our debacle game with regards to special teams, penalties and turnovers costing us a loss.  If those 3 areas go in UWs favor tomorrow night it is going to be a close game.